 |
Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 Anointed services.....v.......psycho-emotional services... |
caseyleejones |
>>>serious responses only please<<<
This was a serious discussion I had with an individual recently that pertained to how church services are/were conducted. I was born and raised pentecostal. I've seen it all.....the good, bad and ugly....
I remember being in services where people supposedly had demons in their life and they passed out bags so they would vomit them out. Other incidences maybe not as bad where the music or certain songs were used to elicit emotional responses from yelling, screaming to running down the aisle when the service was not headed down that direction. The list can go on. Ministers today use the background "twittle" of the organ in the church the preacher makes a point that tend to enhance the congregational response. Rod Parsley case in point. First off, I think he is a man of God and sincere. I just don't like his style. When I do watch him, I ignore the background stuff and focus on the message. Sometimes what he says is very good, while other times...nothing spectacular.....I weed through the background distractions.....
That said, I was recently in a service where half way through the service the leader said the "Spirit is thick" and it opened for prayer time. Was there great excitement? Yes. Were people engaged and excited and worshiping the Lord. Yes.
Some said the presence of God was tangible or the anointing was heavy. I have heard that all my life. Yet, I see that it was more about engagement of individuals and unity in worship.
My question...what defines and anointed service or one where the Spirit of God fell? This is not an argument but frankly, I'm not sure myself.....
thank you |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11796
1/3/16 3:38 pm
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| ...forgot to mention the good |
caseyleejones |
| I have seen people prophesied to that the person speaking had no clue regarding the individual. I have seen major healing and miracle in peoples bodies. ....and I do know of one person with a tooth issue that was filled. Yes, documented...know that person very very well....the dentist was mad at the person for going to another dentist(alleged of course).....she never went to another....why God filled versus restore....don't know..... |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11796
1/3/16 3:44 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
c6thplayer1 |
| Casey , I would say that where 2 or more are gathered in his name there he will be. Given this , if those present are open to his presence and offer true worship then the anointing will appear. All this other bunk is nothing more than Hype IMO. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
1/3/16 5:43 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
c6thplayer1 |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | | c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Casey , I would say that where 2 or more are gathered in his name there he will be. Given this , if those present are open to his presence and offer true worship then the anointing will appear. All this other bunk is nothing more than Hype IMO. |
What is "bunk"?
Please define "bunk" as used in context here.
Thanks |
My definition of Bunk from Casey's post;
bags so they would vomit them spirits out.
songs used to elicit emotional responses from yelling, screaming
Ministers today use the background "twittle" of the organ in the church the preacher makes a point that tend to enhance the congregational response.
the "Spirit is thick" |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
1/3/16 7:08 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Let me refocus my question.... |
caseyleejones |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | | caseyleejones wrote: |
My question...what defines and anointed service or one where the Spirit of God fell? This is not an argument but frankly, I'm not sure myself.....
thank you |
First task would be to provide a Biblical basis for the nomenclature itself. |
Good question....I guess I am trying to understand what an "anointed service" is. This might be synonymous to "the Spirit of God fell"...."shekinah glory" fell. Since I am at a loss as to it's definition, it would follow that finding a biblical basis for such a term leaves me in the dark.
My wife and I had the discussion today. We heard the term anointed and the Spirit being heavy.....etc.....(no dig here). To describe our encounter.....it was energetic, everyone was engaged, frankly the worship team was pretty much on key......it was a good service so to speak.
Lets try this.....pastors, preachers, and good faithful church attenders....when/if you use terms like the following.....what do you mean?
....The Holy Spirit fell
....a Holy Ghost ho down
...shekinah glory fell....
----The presence of the Holy Spirit was tangible----
---our worship ushered in the presence of the Holy Spirit......
If you have used these terms to describe a church service, what do you mean? What happened? |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11796
1/3/16 8:08 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Eddie Robbins |
| To me, it's when something happens that I know came from God. Whatever it is. If it came from God, it was anointed. The challenge is knowing which is from God and which is not. The anointing doesn't have to be drummed up and it can't be manipulated. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
1/3/16 8:13 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Anointed services.....v.......psycho-emotional services... |
Link |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | | caseyleejones wrote: |
My question...what defines and anointed service or one where the Spirit of God fell? This is not an argument but frankly, I'm not sure myself.....
thank you |
First task would be to provide a Biblical basis for the nomenclature itself. |
Good point.
I was raised Pentecostal, but I was also raised reading the Bible. IMO, Pentecostals tend to focus a lot more on 'anointing' in the service or an atmosphere of power than the portions of the Bible that relate to our church meetings do.
I'm not saying the Bible doesn't talk about or emphasize these things. In the Old Testament, there is the passage about the cloud filling the temple. The power of God was present to heal the sick on one occasion.
What does Paul emphasize when he talks about the church gathering. "Let all things be done unto edifying." He doesn't say anything about ushering in the presence of God. He does speak highly of all prophesying. Maybe, experientially, we can talk about the need for God's manifest presence for us to prophesy. The Spirit of the LORD came on one of the prophets when a minstrel played. I still think Pentecostals often have too much emphasis on this sort of thing, or at least the sensory perception that God is moving, which in some cases can just be emotions, stirred by the twittle of the organ.
I notice that there are many song leaders who think their job is to usher the people in to the presence of the Lord, that if they build the music just right and lead up to the right crescendo, that the Spirit of God will fall. The New Testament doesn't even mention song leaders, ministers of music, etc. and the role we have now is relatively recent and evolved over time. I recall Rafael posting about how Benny Hinn went into detail explaining how he orchestrated things to bring down the anointing, or however he put it.
I have a Singaporean friend who used to do a lot of healing crusades. He worked for a big name American TV evangelist at his Bible school. One day he saw himself on a video. Someone testified, "When brother so and so prayed for me, I got healed." When he heard his name, he saw that he jumped a little bit. Then he heard someone else testify "Jesus healed me." He didn't jump and show the same excitement when he heard the name of Jesus as when he heard his own name, and he got convicted and began to rethink some of his thoughts about ministry and the Charismatic movement.
He said that a lot of Charismatic churches work up people's emotions with the music, starting fast with praise movement and going into the more emotionally moving slow worship music which produces a kind of religious feeling. The Catholics in the middle ages, he said, did the same thing with chanting, then silence, then the sound of a bell.
We aren't to be emotionless beings. We should rejoice before the Lord. But we need to realize that our feelings aren't the Holy Spirit. I've seen a lady get excited and go wild dancing or jerking and a preacher says, "That's the Holy Ghost." Hmmm. That looked like an old lady dancing to me. I suppose the Holy Spirit could have touched a woman in that situation, but I wonder what saying "that's the Holy Ghost" does to thinking of little kids in the church who see that.
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
1/3/16 10:19 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Link |
I remember reading a blog post about a former Pentecostal turned Lutheran. He talked about how experience-oriented his former beliefs were. I considered some of his thinking as a Pentecostal to be wrong, something I didn't believe, a lot about feelings during the church service. Then he talked about what an amazing and wonderful thing Holy Communion was as a Lutheran, fellowshipping with the body of Christ.
I do appreciate what we might call the manifest presence of God, or God's power being present. But I think there is something to having faith in God that God is working apart from our feelings.
Maybe it's only me, but I've been in services where the minister of music or the pastor or someone talks about how intense the presence of God is or the anointing, or however they phrase it, and it didn't feel to me any different than other church services. Has anyone else experienced this?
I've probably been in church services where it felt really intense and powerful, but someone who'd had a bad week wasn't feeling it.
David wrote and sang about some of his dry spells, where he just wasn't feeling it. In Psalm 42, his soul was downcast, but he responded by praising the Lord. We need to realize that we can praise the Lord when we just aren't 'feeling it.' If I have a rough week and I'm worn out, and then I go to church, I can offer the sacrifice of praise without having to feel a mighty 'anointing.' By faith, I can appreciate fellowshipping with the Lord's body through partaking of communion without feeling goose bumps or an electric shock. I can appreciate the fact that a prophecy, a word of exhortation, or a teaching is edifying without having to feel a certain way or sense something that feels good in the atmosphere.
The idea of encountering power is part of Pentecostal heritage. I read something about the founder of the Nazarenes saying something like "We may not understand everything in our doctrine, but lets keep the glory coming down." The idea of experiencing glory and the power of God was emphasized in the Holiness heritage, apparently. And there were accounts of people at Azusa Street seeing clouds of glory, fire, and all kinds of experiential stuff.
But if we aren't seeing or feeling something spectacular, we should still appreciate the moving of the Spirit.
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
1/4/16 2:59 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
caseyleejones |
| Link wrote: | I remember reading a blog post about a former Pentecostal turned Lutheran. He talked about how experience-oriented his former beliefs were. I considered some of his thinking as a Pentecostal to be wrong, something I didn't believe, a lot about feelings during the church service. Then he talked about what an amazing and wonderful thing Holy Communion was as a Lutheran, fellowshipping with the body of Christ.
I do appreciate what we might call the manifest presence of God, or God's power being present. But I think there is something to having faith in God that God is working apart from our feelings.
Maybe it's only me, but I've been in services where the minister of music or the pastor or someone talks about how intense the presence of God is or the anointing, or however they phrase it, and it didn't feel to me any different than other church services. Has anyone else experienced this?
I've probably been in church services where it felt really intense and powerful, but someone who'd had a bad week wasn't feeling it.
David wrote and sang about some of his dry spells, where he just wasn't feeling it. In Psalm 42, his soul was downcast, but he responded by praising the Lord. We need to realize that we can praise the Lord when we just aren't 'feeling it.' If I have a rough week and I'm worn out, and then I go to church, I can offer the sacrifice of praise without having to feel a mighty 'anointing.' By faith, I can appreciate fellowshipping with the Lord's body through partaking of communion without feeling goose bumps or an electric shock. I can appreciate the fact that a prophecy, a word of exhortation, or a teaching is edifying without having to feel a certain way or sense something that feels good in the atmosphere.
The idea of encountering power is part of Pentecostal heritage. I read something about the founder of the Nazarenes saying something like "We may not understand everything in our doctrine, but lets keep the glory coming down." The idea of experiencing glory and the power of God was emphasized in the Holiness heritage, apparently. And there were accounts of people at Azusa Street seeing clouds of glory, fire, and all kinds of experiential stuff.
But if we aren't seeing or feeling something spectacular, we should still appreciate the moving of the Spirit. |
Describe this experience. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11796
1/4/16 3:22 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Let me refocus my question.... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| caseyleejones wrote: | Lets try this.....pastors, preachers, and good faithful church attenders....when/if you use terms like the following.....what do you mean?
....The Holy Spirit fell
....a Holy Ghost ho down
...shekinah glory fell....
----The presence of the Holy Spirit was tangible----
---our worship ushered in the presence of the Holy Spirit......
If you have used these terms to describe a church service, what do you mean? What happened? |
Two things I'm wonderin bout, Casey:
1. Can anybody outside the southeastern USA have a Holy Ghost Ho Down?
2. Does shekinah manifest itself under grace (NT folk an beyond) the way it did in OT times? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/4/16 4:04 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | 1. Can anybody outside the southeastern USA have a Holy Ghost Ho Down? |
Folks, adding an "e" to the end of the word might be cutting edge when you're talking about "pointe," but in this case, it's a necessity. It's "hoe" as in "hoedown." "Ho" is something else altogether! |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/4/16 4:11 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Eddie Robbins |
| My name was Eddi. I thought it would be cool and cutting edge to add an "e" to it. It seemed to work for me. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
1/4/16 4:15 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | 1. Can anybody outside the southeastern USA have a Holy Ghost Ho Down? |
Folks, adding an "e" to the end of the word might be cutting edge when you're talking about "pointe," but in this case, it's a necessity. It's "hoe" as in "hoedown." "Ho" is something else altogether! |
You most definitely right there, Miss Bonnie. Hey, I just spelled it like casey so he would understand.
Hey, maybe them hoedowns is cutting edge? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/4/16 4:20 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
| Well one's thing for sure, a hoe without a cuttin edge ain't no good atall. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/4/16 4:24 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
c6thplayer1 |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Well one's thing for sure, a hoe without a cuttin edge ain't no good atall. |
Careful Bonnie. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
1/4/16 5:47 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Cojak |
| c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Casey , I would say that where 2 or more are gathered in his name there he will be. Given this , if those present are open to his presence and offer true worship then the anointing will appear. .... |
I agree.
But I have also come to the personal conclusion if a 'shout is worked up', an old COG phrase, there is still some saint who is enjoying the sweet Holy Spirit.
In a 4SQ church once the evangelist call out, If you come down front where the Spirit is, YOu too can be blessed............................ I am a firm believer the Spirit is where ever we are. The scripture seems to bear that out, that no matter where we can go, he is there.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24282
1/4/16 8:10 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| It seems the question is quite elusive..... |
caseyleejones |
I will drop it down to the most simplest of terms......
how do you describe or know you have....
"the moving of the Spirit" |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11796
1/5/16 9:14 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
I would say it's a manifestation of the Holy Spirit in a corporate setting (in other words, a gathering of believers) in which the believers are edified in a supernatural way or unbelievers accept the gospel. Sometimes that might involve physical healing, emotional healing, spiritual manifestations such as prophecy, tongues, words of wisdom, or words of knowledge.
It might be a little hard to pin down exactly how our emotional state factors into our willingness to open ourselves to spiritual things, but I think the connection between the two has opened a door for abusive manipulation of emotions in some cases, perhaps some of it not ill intentioned and perhaps some of it part of a grifter's show. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/5/16 9:27 am
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
