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 You don't owe God. |
bradfreeman |
"God has done so much for you, shouldn't you be doing something for Him"?
I've heard that one a lot growing up in various churches.
Here's another:
"There's a price to pay for the anointing!"
Truth is:
Jesus didn't come to create a debt, He came to cancel one.
You cannot buy the gift of God with money.
Jesus paid the price.
We've already been blessed with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ.
God, with Christ, freely gives us all things.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
12/15/15 6:36 am
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Link |
If Paul was a debtor to Jews, Greeks, and Gentiles, then why wouldn't he be a debtor to Christ? If honor is due people, we owe them honor. Paul said to give honor to whom honor is due. The Bible says to honor your father and mother. So we owe them honor. How can we say we don't owe God anything when we owe our parents something?
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
12/15/15 2:15 pm
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Travis Johnson |
| "God, I don't owe you jack!" -Brad |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
12/15/15 2:45 pm
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bradfreeman |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | "God, I don't owe you jack!" -Brad |
You got it backwards
"Travis, all that I give to you, I give you freely!" - God
"Travis, you have nothing to pay me with. Your ability is rubbish, filthy rags. The good in you is Me. I produce the fruit of My Life in you." - God
Justification - free
Blessing - free
Life - free
He has already blessed us with every blessing and already, with Christ, freely given us all things.
Jesus didn't die to create a debt. He died to cancel it!
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Last edited by bradfreeman on 12/15/15 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
12/15/15 6:35 pm
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bradfreeman |
| Link wrote: | | If Paul was a debtor to Jews, Greeks, and Gentiles, then why wouldn't he be a debtor to Christ? If honor is due people, we owe them honor. Paul said to give honor to whom honor is due. The Bible says to honor your father and mother. So we owe them honor. How can we say we don't owe God anything when we owe our parents something? |
God freely gives us all that He gives us.
What will you pay Him with Link?
He is the good in you.
When it is God doing and giving through us, our doing and giving will flow from the same motivation God moves from. God so loved He gave. He doesn't give because He owes us. The giving He produces in us flows from the same place.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
12/15/15 6:39 pm
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| I Do Owe God - A Lot! |
FG Minister |
I owe Him my life, my devotion, my commitment, my service, my love, my worship, my time and so much more. Do I owe these things in payment for salvation or blessings? Of course not. I owe them to God because of His mercy and grace in being so benevolent toward me.
Does God give me the ability to offer these things back to Him? Of course, but I must decide whether to give them to Him or not. I owe God and Brad is the first person I've ever heard of who doesn't. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 875
12/19/15 11:46 am
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JLarry |
| Quote: | | I owe Him my life, my devotion, my commitment, my service, my love, my worship, my time and so much more. Do I owe these things in payment for salvation or blessings? Of course not. I owe them to God because of His mercy and grace in being so benevolent toward me. |
Paul considered himself a bond servant.
_________________
Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com
No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
12/19/15 11:57 am
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diakoneo |
| If we don't owe anything, why did Christ talk about us counting the cost? |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
12/19/15 9:55 pm
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bradfreeman |
| diakoneo wrote: | | If we don't owe anything, why did Christ talk about us counting the cost? |
He talked about Jews counting the cost and being willin to leave all they had had known - all their fathers, mothers, wives, children and even they had ever known - a works based system of self-righteousness that no one could measure up to.
He was not telling them they needed to make sure they could finish their tower, but that they'd better make other arrangements because they'd never finish such a tower?
““If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it — lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”
Luke 14:26, 28-33 NKJV
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
12/19/15 11:04 pm
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| Re: I Do Owe God - A Lot! |
bradfreeman |
| FG Minister wrote: | I owe Him my life, my devotion, my commitment, my service, my love, my worship, my time and so much more. Do I owe these things in payment for salvation or blessings? Of course not. I owe them to God because of His mercy and grace in being so benevolent toward me.
Does God give me the ability to offer these things back to Him? Of course, but I must decide whether to give them to Him or not. I owe God and Brad is the first person I've ever heard of who doesn't. |
Is there any scripture to support your view?
No. God isn't selling. He's giving. That's the Good News!
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
12/19/15 11:07 pm
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diakoneo |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | If we don't owe anything, why did Christ talk about us counting the cost? |
He talked about Jews counting the cost and being willin to leave all they had had known - all their fathers, mothers, wives, children and even they had ever known - a works based system of self-righteousness that no one could measure up to.
He was not telling them they needed to make sure they could finish their tower, but that they'd better make other arrangements because they'd never finish such a tower?
““If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it — lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”
Luke 14:26, 28-33 NKJV |
You left out verse 25 of Luke chapter 14. That verse is important to context and says, "Now great multitudes went with Him and He turned to them and said..."
That verse is important because in the multitudes there were many who followed but were not truly disciples. Christ was making a distinction between the two. There are many today in the same situation and some preachers will tell them their alright because they "believe". Sound familiar? |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
12/20/15 7:05 am
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| I'm Reminded of Harry Ironside |
FG Minister |
Mr. Ironside, great gospel preacher of times past, was sitting at a table in a restaurant. When his food came he bowed his head to thank God for it. A man seated at the next table asked why he did such a thing. Mr. Ironside said "because I believe everything comes from God and I wanted to thank Him for this food." The other patron responded "when I get ready to eat, I just dig in." Mr. Ironside responded "that's just what my dog does!"
Brad - was that you seated next to Mr. Ironside? |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 875
12/20/15 7:30 am
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| Re: I'm Reminded of Harry Ironside |
bradfreeman |
| FG Minister wrote: | Mr. Ironside, great gospel preacher of times past, was sitting at a table in a restaurant. When his food came he bowed his head to thank God for it. A man seated at the next table asked why he did such a thing. Mr. Ironside said "because I believe everything comes from God and I wanted to thank Him for this food." The other patron responded "when I get ready to eat, I just dig in." Mr. Ironside responded "that's just what my dog does!"
Brad - was that you seated next to Mr. Ironside? |
Mr. Ironside obviously felt that calling this fellow a dog would be appropriate. Typical preacher - enjoying a bumper sticker moment at the expense of the listener. Then you suggest I'm a dog...for a laugh?
I am incredibly thankful for His unspeakable GIFT.
Do you thank Him for selling you life, blessing and provision on credit?
Do you have any scripture for such a view?
If you are going to stay true to scripture, the "dog" is the natural Jew, basing his confidence toward God on his Jewishness, his zeal, his bible knowledge, his godly lifestyle.
Phil. 3:2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. 7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Last edited by bradfreeman on 12/20/15 9:11 am; edited 3 times in total |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
12/20/15 8:43 am
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bradfreeman |
| diakoneo wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | If we don't owe anything, why did Christ talk about us counting the cost? |
He talked about Jews counting the cost and being willin to leave all they had had known - all their fathers, mothers, wives, children and even they had ever known - a works based system of self-righteousness that no one could measure up to.
He was not telling them they needed to make sure they could finish their tower, but that they'd better make other arrangements because they'd never finish such a tower?
““If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it — lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”
Luke 14:26, 28-33 NKJV |
You left out verse 25 of Luke chapter 14. That verse is important to context and says, "Now great multitudes went with Him and He turned to them and said..."
That verse is important because in the multitudes there were many who followed but were not truly disciples. Christ was making a distinction between the two. There are many today in the same situation and some preachers will tell them their alright because they "believe". Sound familiar? |
I did not leave our verse 25 in my assessment of the passage.
He was calling Jews to leave behind a system of religion that was, in fact, their whole lives. The transition from works-righteousness to faith-righteousness caused believing Jews to be persecuted and pressured to return to Judaism.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
12/20/15 8:47 am
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diakoneo |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | If we don't owe anything, why did Christ talk about us counting the cost? |
He talked about Jews counting the cost and being willin to leave all they had had known - all their fathers, mothers, wives, children and even they had ever known - a works based system of self-righteousness that no one could measure up to.
He was not telling them they needed to make sure they could finish their tower, but that they'd better make other arrangements because they'd never finish such a tower?
““If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it — lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”
Luke 14:26, 28-33 NKJV |
You left out verse 25 of Luke chapter 14. That verse is important to context and says, "Now great multitudes went with Him and He turned to them and said..."
That verse is important because in the multitudes there were many who followed but were not truly disciples. Christ was making a distinction between the two. There are many today in the same situation and some preachers will tell them their alright because they "believe". Sound familiar? |
I did not leave our verse 25 in my assessment of the passage.
He was calling Jews to leave behind a system of religion that was, in fact, their whole lives. The transition from works-righteousness to faith-righteousness caused believing Jews to be persecuted and pressured to return to Judaism. |
I am glad I don't have to wrestle with the difficult words of Christ. I can just rationalize that He is talking to the Jews. Is that about right?
I maybe over simplifying but that is what I see in your explanation. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
12/20/15 10:09 am
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bradfreeman |
| diakoneo wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | If we don't owe anything, why did Christ talk about us counting the cost? |
He talked about Jews counting the cost and being willin to leave all they had had known - all their fathers, mothers, wives, children and even they had ever known - a works based system of self-righteousness that no one could measure up to.
He was not telling them they needed to make sure they could finish their tower, but that they'd better make other arrangements because they'd never finish such a tower?
““If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it — lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”
Luke 14:26, 28-33 NKJV |
You left out verse 25 of Luke chapter 14. That verse is important to context and says, "Now great multitudes went with Him and He turned to them and said..."
That verse is important because in the multitudes there were many who followed but were not truly disciples. Christ was making a distinction between the two. There are many today in the same situation and some preachers will tell them their alright because they "believe". Sound familiar? |
I did not leave our verse 25 in my assessment of the passage.
He was calling Jews to leave behind a system of religion that was, in fact, their whole lives. The transition from works-righteousness to faith-righteousness caused believing Jews to be persecuted and pressured to return to Judaism. |
I am glad I don't have to wrestle with the difficult words of Christ. I can just rationalize that He is talking to the Jews. Is that about right?
I maybe over simplifying but that is what I see in your explanation. |
Counting the cost is not about coming up with more to pay. It's about finally realizing you can't finish the tower or defeat the king.
There's no wrestling. The Jews were being called to leave everything they had known about relating to God behind.
What we receive is a GIFT.
You don't pay for a gift.
You don't owe for a gift,
Gifts are simply an expression of the One who so loved the world He gave.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
12/20/15 8:21 pm
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Cojak |
It is just a simple human failing to not know how to accept a GIFT. I do feel that I OWE Thanks, but that is me. Pay? Of course we cannot tangibly PAY God anything. BUT We pay respects, homage and HONOR.
I know a couple folk who GIVE and there are always strings attached, most folk know at least one like that.
I do think God appreciates our love as I appreciate my sons love. When I give my sons something, there are no strings attached and they know it. But they still show their love and appreciation for the gift, and yes I do appreciate the fact they are thankful.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
12/20/15 8:39 pm
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bradfreeman |
| Cojak wrote: | It is just a simple human failing to not know how to accept a GIFT. I do feel that I OWE Thanks, but that is me. Pay? Of course we cannot tangibly PAY God anything. BUT We pay respects, homage and HONOR.
I know a couple folk who GIVE and there are always strings attached, most folk know at least one like that.
I do think God appreciates our love as I appreciate my sons love. When I give my sons something, there are no strings attached and they know it. But they still show their love and appreciation for the gift, and yes I do appreciate the fact they are thankful.
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_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
12/20/15 9:04 pm
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wayne |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Cojak wrote: | It is just a simple human failing to not know how to accept a GIFT. I do feel that I OWE Thanks, but that is me. Pay? Of course we cannot tangibly PAY God anything. BUT We pay respects, homage and HONOR.
I know a couple folk who GIVE and there are always strings attached, most folk know at least one like that.
I do think God appreciates our love as I appreciate my sons love. When I give my sons something, there are no strings attached and they know it. But they still show their love and appreciation for the gift, and yes I do appreciate the fact they are thankful.
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Cojak, you are a wise man. Thank you.
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Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1274
12/22/15 9:47 am
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