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 A Question Please.. |
renewal |
I will ask this question again...
Is it true that the staff at our schools signs a statement that they will not teach anything contrary to COG Doctrine?
Just asking... |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
10/26/15 10:25 am
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UncleJD |
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kyle_hinson |
Tom,
So it is a LONG answer and I am not the best person to give it- but here is a shot.
Liberation theology is is arguably the most significant development after Pentecostal theology in the 20th century. It focuses on how the gospel has been used to keep subjugated people down, but how it can be used to empower the weak. A significant narrative is the exodus account and how it can be a model for people seeking justice.
Liberation theology focuses on the structural sins that undergird the way society treats the "other," and sees in the "other" the least of these that Jesus calls to.
It gets complicated because there are many streams and within each stream there are many sub-groups. Broadly,liberation theology can be classified as: Latin-American, African-American, Asian, feminist, and womanist (black women).
PTS did teach a bit of each of these in an elective class I took on contemporary theology. We read some primary works in each area. We also studies open theism ( a whole other area of controversy).
In my experience, feminist liberation theology is the most liberal of all of the streams. People like Mary Daily would not even colder themselves Christian. Whereas Elizabeth Johnson pushes the envelope, but is still within the broader scope of orthodoxy. And yes, the more liberal feminist theologians are open to LGBT issues. But not al of them are.
I think you can see how liberation theology informs PTS teachers in a book like Pentecostal Formation, from Dr Cheryl Bridges Johns. BTW, a must read book. She is informed by, but does not naively embrace liberation theology. I am sure that others could do a much better overview, but this is a quick attempt.
http://www.amazon.com/Pentecostal-Formation-Pedagogy-Oppressed-Supplement/dp/1608998991 |
Member
Posts: 45
10/26/15 12:31 pm
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Cojak |
| kyle_hinson wrote: | Tom,
So it is a LONG answer and I am not the best person to give it- but here is a shot.
Liberation theology is is arguably the most significant development after Pentecostal theology in the 20th century. It focuses on how the gospel has been used to keep subjugated people down, but how it can be used to empower the weak. A significant narrative is the exodus account and how it can be a model for people seeking justice.
Liberation theology focuses on the structural sins that undergird the way society treats the "other," and sees in the "other" the least of these that Jesus calls to.
It gets complicated because there are many streams and within each stream there are many sub-groups. Broadly,liberation theology can be classified as: Latin-American, African-American, Asian, feminist, and womanist (black women).
PTS did teach a bit of each of these in an elective class I took on contemporary theology. We read some primary works in each area. We also studies open theism ( a whole other area of controversy).
In my experience, feminist liberation theology is the most liberal of all of the streams. People like Mary Daily would not even colder themselves Christian. Whereas Elizabeth Johnson pushes the envelope, but is still within the broader scope of orthodoxy. And yes, the more liberal feminist theologians are open to LGBT issues. But not al of them are.
I think you can see how liberation theology informs PTS teachers in a book like Pentecostal Formation, from Dr Cheryl Bridges Johns. BTW, a must read book. She is informed by, but does not naively embrace liberation theology. I am sure that others could do a much better overview, but this is a quick attempt.
http://www.amazon.com/Pentecostal-Formation-Pedagogy-Oppressed-Supplement/dp/1608998991 |
This is serious, not a slam on a well worded comment by Kyle.
This is a time I am glad I am like old Shultz, "I know nothing".  
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
10/26/15 6:29 pm
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Nick Park |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | Teaching about feminist liberation theology, is just a little different than actually teaching feminist liberation theology. If the former is what is being done, then that's great. Is that the case? If its the later, then what you really see is the why the denominations are dying a slow death. |
So...can somebody tell "what" feminist liberation theology is??
Thanks |
There are different kinds of feminist theology. At its most basic it can simply be a recognition that using male pronouns for God does not make him 'male' in the sense that we normally define male and female (eg as when discussing whether Bruce Jenner is male or not). So God is not a male in the same way that a ship is not a female, even though it is entirely appropriate to speak of God blessing a ship and say "May He bless all who sail in her." Proponents of this view argue that Scripture does on occasion use feminine imagery for God (eg personifying the Holy Spirit as a woman called 'Wisdom', or speaking of him covering his children with his wings like a mother bird). Often those who take this approach will argue for the inclusion of women in leadership and ministry positions. I would see this kind of 'feminist theology' as entirely compatible with holding to the authority and verbal inspiration of Scripture.
Others go further, arguing that biblical writers were blinkered by their patriarchal worldviews, and that texts need to be reinterpreted in a new light free of such patriarchism. This also allows them to reinterpret texts that speak against homosexuality. Matthew Vines uses this argument to reject clear Scriptural prohibitions of homosexual acts and to push for acceptance of "faithful and committed" same-sex relationships within the Church. I would see this approach as incompatible with a serious view of the Bible as the authoritative Word of God. It is forcing an arbitrary hermeneutic onto Scripture which makes us the authority over the Bible, when the Bible should have authority over us.
Then you get the nutjobs who want to do thealogy on the basis that theos is a masculine word! They have, in my opinion, departed from the faith altogether and belong more on Oprah than in churches or theological seminaries.
One of the problems is that sometimes people will cojoin the term 'feminist theology' with other terms such as 'liberation' and 'LGBT', even in cases where no such connection exists. Continual use of such associations creates the impression, quite wrongly, that all forms of feminist theology are part of a Communist homosexual Satanic plot to destroy the church. Which is why, if you dare to suggest that women could actually contribute to the General Council of the Church of God, then someone will soon start shouting about how we are on a slippery slope and are in danger of ordaining homosexuals.
For the sake of clarity, let me point out that I am speaking in general terms in response to Tom's question. I have never studied at PTS and, while I have the utmost respect for any of the faculty that I know, I have no information on what is being taught.
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland
http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/ |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
10/27/15 6:36 am
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DrDuck |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | | kyle_hinson wrote: | Tom,
So it is a LONG answer and I am not the best person to give it- but here is a shot.
Liberation theology is is arguably the most significant development after Pentecostal theology in the 20th century. It focuses on how the gospel has been used to keep subjugated people down, but how it can be used to empower the weak. A significant narrative is the exodus account and how it can be a model for people seeking justice.
Liberation theology focuses on the structural sins that undergird the way society treats the "other," and sees in the "other" the least of these that Jesus calls to.
It gets complicated because there are many streams and within each stream there are many sub-groups. Broadly,liberation theology can be classified as: Latin-American, African-American, Asian, feminist, and womanist (black women).
PTS did teach a bit of each of these in an elective class I took on contemporary theology. We read some primary works in each area. We also studies open theism ( a whole other area of controversy).
In my experience, feminist liberation theology is the most liberal of all of the streams. People like Mary Daily would not even colder themselves Christian. Whereas Elizabeth Johnson pushes the envelope, but is still within the broader scope of orthodoxy. And yes, the more liberal feminist theologians are open to LGBT issues. But not al of them are.
I think you can see how liberation theology informs PTS teachers in a book like Pentecostal Formation, from Dr Cheryl Bridges Johns. BTW, a must read book. She is informed by, but does not naively embrace liberation theology. I am sure that others could do a much better overview, but this is a quick attempt.
http://www.amazon.com/Pentecostal-Formation-Pedagogy-Oppressed-Supplement/dp/1608998991 |
Notwithstanding some of the doctrinal and or theological extremes of some of the proponents - what are some of the specific problems of this particular theology? |
I had Dr. C. B. Johns for a class at PTS. I do not remember ever discussing this with anyone at the time, but I do remember distinctly wondering to myself if my project/paper grades were impacted by the fact I was male. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 755
10/27/15 9:07 am
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| Postmodern Theology |
postmodern |
Without going into detail, Kyle and others have adequately summarized liberation theology in its various forms.
If you're not a theologian, we can use another paradigm to explain it. Think of postmodernism and its emphasis to deconstruct narratives and social constructs that those in power have imposed on the weaker members of societies.
| Nick Park wrote: | | Tom Sterbens wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | Teaching about feminist liberation theology, is just a little different than actually teaching feminist liberation theology. If the former is what is being done, then that's great. Is that the case? If its the later, then what you really see is the why the denominations are dying a slow death. |
So...can somebody tell "what" feminist liberation theology is??
Thanks |
There are different kinds of feminist theology. At its most basic it can simply be a recognition that using male pronouns for God does not make him 'male' in the sense that we normally define male and female (eg as when discussing whether Bruce Jenner is male or not). So God is not a male in the same way that a ship is not a female, even though it is entirely appropriate to speak of God blessing a ship and say "May He bless all who sail in her." Proponents of this view argue that Scripture does on occasion use feminine imagery for God (eg personifying the Holy Spirit as a woman called 'Wisdom', or speaking of him covering his children with his wings like a mother bird). Often those who take this approach will argue for the inclusion of women in leadership and ministry positions. I would see this kind of 'feminist theology' as entirely compatible with holding to the authority and verbal inspiration of Scripture.
Others go further, arguing that biblical writers were blinkered by their patriarchal worldviews, and that texts need to be reinterpreted in a new light free of such patriarchism. This also allows them to reinterpret texts that speak against homosexuality. Matthew Vines uses this argument to reject clear Scriptural prohibitions of homosexual acts and to push for acceptance of "faithful and committed" same-sex relationships within the Church. I would see this approach as incompatible with a serious view of the Bible as the authoritative Word of God. It is forcing an arbitrary hermeneutic onto Scripture which makes us the authority over the Bible, when the Bible should have authority over us.
Then you get the nutjobs who want to do thealogy on the basis that theos is a masculine word! They have, in my opinion, departed from the faith altogether and belong more on Oprah than in churches or theological seminaries.
One of the problems is that sometimes people will cojoin the term 'feminist theology' with other terms such as 'liberation' and 'LGBT', even in cases where no such connection exists. Continual use of such associations creates the impression, quite wrongly, that all forms of feminist theology are part of a Communist homosexual Satanic plot to destroy the church. Which is why, if you dare to suggest that women could actually contribute to the General Council of the Church of God, then someone will soon start shouting about how we are on a slippery slope and are in danger of ordaining homosexuals.
For the sake of clarity, let me point out that I am speaking in general terms in response to Tom's question. I have never studied at PTS and, while I have the utmost respect for any of the faculty that I know, I have no information on what is being taught. |
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Friendly Face
Posts: 226
10/27/15 1:13 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| DrDuck wrote: | | I had Dr. C. B. Johns for a class at PTS. I do not remember ever discussing this with anyone at the time, but I do remember distinctly wondering to myself if my project/paper grades were impacted by the fact I was male. |
C'mon, Dr, just cause you didn't study fer them exams, and didn't use the Chicago Manual of Style to footnote ya project, hey, at wasn't Dr. Johns fault.  |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
10/27/15 1:52 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Last edited by Old Time Country Preacher on 10/28/15 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
10/27/15 2:06 pm
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DrDuck |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | DrDuck wrote: | | I had Dr. C. B. Johns for a class at PTS. I do not remember ever discussing this with anyone at the time, but I do remember distinctly wondering to myself if my project/paper grades were impacted by the fact I was male. |
C'mon, Dr, just cause you didn't study fer them exams, and didn't use the Chicago Manual of Style to footnote ya project, hey, at wasn't Dr. Johns fault. |
I did not say nor imply that I had bad grades from her. In fact, my overall grades at PTS were quite good. Just wondered to myself if good grades in that particular class might have been slightly less because of being male. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 755
10/27/15 4:31 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Liberation theology is essentially Marxian Christianity. Instead of appealing to Christians and non-Christians to be voluntarily charitable in giving to the poor, liberation theology presents Jesus as a socialist revolutionary dressed in military fatigues and armed with a machine gun, advocating the violent overthrow of the evil capitalist structure of society. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
10/27/15 5:49 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | Liberation theology is essentially Marxian Christianity. |
Two peas in a pod......... |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
10/27/15 7:01 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | Liberation theology is essentially Marxian Christianity. |
Two peas in a pod......... |
As in Matthew, Marx, Luke and John? |
Almost, Tom, but more as in:
Matthew, Marx, Lenin and John... |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
10/27/15 10:24 pm
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DrDuck |
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kyle_hinson |
Nick - great job summarizing!!!
Wyatt - I would respectfully disagree. Yes, liberation theology almost always uses Marxist analysis and language. However, liberation theologians will at least occasionally distance themselves from Marxist solutions. So while it beings at the same starting line as Marxism, the finish line is often different.
Tom - I do think that all white male pastors need to seriously listen to the voices coming from these camps. It is all too easy to find the flaws in their argument. But when there is a loud voice of disparate people expressing their pain, I find it unwise to tell them that their collective groaning is wrong. |
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Posts: 45
10/28/15 11:28 am
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