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You will not prosper.
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Post You will not prosper. bradfreeman
You will not prosper.

"...and you will not prosper in your ways; but you shall only be oppressed and robbed continually, with none to save you." Deut 28:29

This was one of the curses of a cursed and fruitless system of legalism that demanded perfection and ministered condemnation, curses and death.

Christ bought us out of that cursed system so that everyone could experience the free love and blessing God lavishes on those who believe Him!

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"—in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." Gal. 3:13,14
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Post Nature Boy Florida
I read the chapter - I didn't see where he said anything about legalism - more exactly things that happen to those that "do not obey the voice of the Lord". Those types of things still happen to those that don't obey the voice of the Lord. Folks can be forgiven - but the consequences on earth of bad choices still reign. Sowing and reaping hasn't been rescinded - as far as earthly results are concerned.
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Post bradfreeman
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
I read the chapter - I didn't see where he said anything about legalism - more exactly things that happen to those that "do not obey the voice of the Lord". Those types of things still happen to those that don't obey the voice of the Lord. Folks can be forgiven - but the consequences on earth of bad choices still reign. Sowing and reaping hasn't been rescinded - as far as earthly results are concerned.


Then you don't understand legalism.

Gal. 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Legalism says: If you keep these "commandments and statutes", I will bless you. If you don't, curses will come upon you.

Legalism is righteousness and blessing based on perfect performance.
Legalism is curses that come to imperfect performance.

Deut 28:15 “But it shall come about, if you do not obey the Lord your God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes with which I charge you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Where was the answer to this question

Quote:
And you ignored the rest of my post - if you don't obey God's commands - and Jesus did say there were two - will good or bad things happen to you?

Yes or no?

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Last edited by Nature Boy Florida on 10/12/15 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post bradfreeman
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Correction: I don't understand Brad legalism.

And you ignored the rest of my post - if you don't obey God's commands - and Jesus did say there were two - will good or bad things happen to you?

Yes or no?


You don't understand basic Bible legalism. You are trying to put new wine into old wineskins. You want to keep Hagar in the house - but that old system of "blessed if you do good", "cursed if you do bad" is obsolete and must be "cast out".

If you rob a bank, expect to be arrested.
If you cheat on your wife, expect a divorce.
If you beat your children, expect a visit from social services.

But as for God, Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law. See Gal. 3:13

Our sins, all of them, have already been laid on Jesus, condemned, killed and put away.

Rom. 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered.
8 “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”


2 Cor. 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Heb. 8:12 “For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.”


Heb. 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Heb. 10:17 “And their sins and their lawless deeds
I will remember no more.”

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Post Nick Park
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
I read the chapter - I didn't see where he said anything about legalism - more exactly things that happen to those that "do not obey the voice of the Lord". Those types of things still happen to those that don't obey the voice of the Lord. Folks can be forgiven - but the consequences on earth of bad choices still reign. Sowing and reaping hasn't been rescinded - as far as earthly results are concerned.


True, and we need to recognize that Deuteronomy 28 flows on from Chapter 27. The things that would bar the way to prosperity for the people included worshipping idols, cheating your neighbor, deliberately misleading blind people, having sex with your stepmother, copulating with animals, committing incest, murder, and receiving bribes. To commit such sins would be a clear indication that someone had deliberately chosen to cut himself from the covenant.

It would be a sad perversion of the Gospel indeed if we were to say, "Hey, it's OK to worship idols, steal your neighbor's land, exploit the disabled, have sex with your step-mother sister and dog, kill your neighbor and take bribes. You can keep doing all these things and God will still bless you and prosper you because you're a Christian and you're covered by the blood."

We see a clear application of the true Gospel of Grace in 1 Corinthians where Paul addresses one of the very issues raised in Deuteronomy Chapters 27 & 28. A member of the Church at Corinth was sleeping with his step-mother. Paul did not say, "Hey, don't worry about that cursed and fruitless stuff - it's all covered by the cross anyway." He was clear that the individual, by his actions, had separated himself from God's covenant people. The solution was to cast him out of the church until his actions demonstrated repentance.
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10/12/15 12:16 pm


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Post bradfreeman
Nick Park wrote:
It would be a sad perversion of the Gospel indeed if we were to say, "Hey, it's OK to worship idols, steal your neighbor's land, exploit the disabled, have sex with your step-mother sister and dog, kill your neighbor and take bribes. You can keep doing all these things and God will still bless you and prosper you because you're a Christian and you're covered by the blood."


Sin is not "OK". Who says this?

As for new covenant blessing, here's how we already have it:

Eph. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

Rom. 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?

Gal. 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

Relying on obedience to Deut 27 as a pre-condition of blessing is exactly what Paul was addressing in Galatians 3. Relying on our rule-keeping brings a curse, not a blessing.

If we're applying old covenant rules as a pre-condition of new covenant blessing or being "covered by the blood", you've left out a quite a few. Laughing

As for the 1 Cor 5 fellow, our sin can certainly disqualify us from leadership, from ministry and, if bad enough, from fellowship or even sharing a meal. But our sin is no obstacle to grace, Jesus having taken away the sin of the world.
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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Continual deliberate sin in praxis is NEVER acceptable to God, pre or post conversion. Acts-pert Poster
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Post bradfreeman
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Continual deliberate sin in praxis is NEVER acceptable to God, pre or post conversion.


Did Jesus do anything for you?
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Post Old Time Country Preacher
bradfreeman wrote:
Did Jesus do anything for you?


Jesus did nothing to facilitate me continuing to live in willful deliberate sin an excuse it by sayin it was my flesh what done it, not my spirit.
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Post bradfreeman
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Did Jesus do anything for you?


Jesus did nothing to facilitate me continuing to live in willful deliberate sin an excuse it by sayin it was my flesh what done it, not my spirit.


Are you able to say what Jesus did for you or just what He didn't do for you?
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Post Nick Park
bradfreeman wrote:
Nick Park wrote:
It would be a sad perversion of the Gospel indeed if we were to say, "Hey, it's OK to worship idols, steal your neighbor's land, exploit the disabled, have sex with your step-mother sister and dog, kill your neighbor and take bribes. You can keep doing all these things and God will still bless you and prosper you because you're a Christian and you're covered by the blood."


Sin is not "OK". Who says this?

As for new covenant blessing, here's how we already have it:

Eph. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

Rom. 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?

Gal. 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

Relying on obedience to Deut 27 as a pre-condition of blessing is exactly what Paul was addressing in Galatians 3. Relying on our rule-keeping brings a curse, not a blessing.

If we're applying old covenant rules as a pre-condition of new covenant blessing or being "covered by the blood", you've left out a quite a few. Laughing

As for the 1 Cor 5 fellow, our sin can certainly disqualify us from leadership, from ministry and, if bad enough, from fellowship or even sharing a meal. But our sin is no obstacle to grace, Jesus having taken away the sin of the world.


Brad, I think your posts in this thread indicate a number of misunderstandings, including the purpose of the law. But there's no point in discussing that if we aren't actually talking about the same Gospel. So could you please give me a straight answer to a straight question?

A man is a murderer who commits incest and bestiality. He professes to have been saved, but still kills people and sleeps with his sister and his dog. Are you saying that he can expect to prosper because he is a child of God who is living by grace and enjoying new covenant blessings?
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Post JLarry
Quote:
Brad, I think your posts in this thread indicate a number of misunderstandings, including the purpose of the law. But there's no point in discussing that if we aren't actually talking about the same Gospel. So could you please give me a straight answer to a straight question?

A man is a murderer who commits incest and bestiality. He professes to have been saved, but still kills people and sleeps with his sister and his dog. Are you saying that he can expect to prosper because he is a child of God who is living by grace and enjoying new covenant blessings?


I am not Brad, but I would like to weigh in on this.

I can profess to being a multi-millionaire but I still get up 5 days a week and go to work at a used car lot.

BTW all used car salesmen are not liars but many are. Same as preachers, most are not, but some are.
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Post bradfreeman
Nick Park wrote:
Are you saying that he can expect to prosper because he is a child of God who is living by grace and enjoying new covenant blessings?


So your burning question is:
How much money can a man who sins expect God to give him?

Your question is silly. God sends rain and sunshine on the just and unjust.

Our salvation and our participation in redemption is not based on our works, but on Jesus' works and our belief in that message.

Here are the more important issues your hypothetical raises:

What part do I play in my salvation?

How do we see the fruit of the Spirit (God's own life) in people's lives?


There is only 1 gospel.

Paul's constant concern in just about every epistle, was that religious people would add a human element (something for us to boast about) to the Gospel.

The Gospel of God's grace toward us is God in Christ Jesus dying away "old things", putting away sin and the law system, reconciling the world to Himself and raising "new things'. The Gospel is about what God accomplished in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus - the cross!

When our old man, our sin, our judgment, the law that condemned us with its death, fear, wrath and curses were crucified, all things became new.
We were made alive together with Christ, raised up, seated and blessed with Christ.

What is our part in this salvation? Since it happened 2,000 years ago, all we can do is believe this message, the word of Christ - the Gospel.

The Gospel has power. It has power to change people's lives and behavior.

It is like seed. If it's received with faith, it produces the fruit of God's very own life in us.

1 Pet 1:23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

Your incestuous murderer's life won't be changed by the ministry of condemnation, bondage again to fear and death. No one is justified or perfected that way. The law is weak because of the flesh. You may get the outside of that guy's cup clean, but not the inside. You may modify his behavior by threatening him and commanding him to do something, but you won't change his life and you give an incorruptible seed to believe - the Gospel. He won't be free until he knows the truth about Jesus.

When the message that Christ is his life is heard and believed, it produces the life of Christ in his home, his family and the way he treats his pets. Religion just wants him to stop sleeping with his dog.
Jesus wants to live in and through him. Jesus doesn't sleep with dogs.

As for new covenant blessings - they aren't stuff.
The Greek word for "blessing" is "eulogio", where we get our English word eulogy, it means: "to celebrate with praises". We are already blessed with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places (Eph. 1:3) because we are "in Christ Jesus" (the one He celebrates with praises). These blessings are words spoken. They are seeds which produce fruit and sometimes "stuff".

As for the purposes of the law, we don't have to guess about or misunderstand the purposes of the law.

Rom. 3:21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

The law bore witness through shadowy pictures of who Christ would be and what He would accomplish.
The prophets foretold of who He would be and what He would accomplish.
Jesus fulfilled all of that.

Luke 24:44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

What else did the law do?

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

The law was given to shut us up and make us account for our sin.
The law shuts us up and begs that no further word be spoken, but faith opens our mouths - the word of faith speaks and lives by every word proceeding out of God's mouth (See Heb. 12:19 and Rom. 10:6).

Rom. 5:20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Gal. 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

The law had purposes, but it also had effects.

It brought the knowledge of sin and the imputation of sin.
It empowered sin and gave opportunity to sin.
It revives sin and brings wrath.
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Post Nick Park
bradfreeman wrote:

So your burning question is:
How much money can a man who sins expect God to give him?

Your question is silly. God sends rain and sunshine on the just and unjust.


No, my question is not silly. Nor does it need to be reframed to say something else.

My question is: A man is a murderer who commits incest and bestiality. He professes to have been saved, but still kills people and sleeps with his sister and his dog. Are you saying that he can expect to prosper because he is a child of God who is living by grace and enjoying new covenant blessings?

Will you answer it please? It's not a trick question.
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10/15/15 7:42 am


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Brad really should have his own forum - he posts stuff, tells you the questions you ask, then tells you how silly your question is.

Why does he need anyone else on his forum?
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Post c6thplayer1
Quote:
My question is: A man is a murderer who commits incest and bestiality. He professes to have been saved, but still kills people and sleeps with his sister and his dog. Are you saying that he can expect to prosper because he is a child of God who is living by grace and enjoying new covenant blessings?


I have seen people like this , with the exception of the dog. I dont know where their prosperity comes from but they did have it.
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Post Dave Dorsey
c6thplayer1 wrote:
I have seen people like this , with the exception of the dog. I dont know where their prosperity comes from but they did have it.

Reading through the Psalms, you see an ongoing lament about the prosperity of the wicked vs. the struggle of the righteous. It's something we all can relate to, and as I've made an effort to read Psalms daily, it has struck me as a strong recurring theme.

I don't have an answer, other than to say that the prosperity surely didn't come from the Lord, and surely will not last, even if it lasts until they take their last breath on this earth.
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Post bradfreeman
Nick Park wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:

So your burning question is:
How much money can a man who sins expect God to give him?

Your question is silly. God sends rain and sunshine on the just and unjust.


No, my question is not silly. Nor does it need to be reframed to say something else.

My question is: A man is a murderer who commits incest and bestiality. He professes to have been saved, but still kills people and sleeps with his sister and his dog. Are you saying that he can expect to prosper because he is a child of God who is living by grace and enjoying new covenant blessings?

Will you answer it please? It's not a trick question.


Apparently, you stopped reading at the word "silly". Laughing
I answered your question thoroughly including making it clear what the Gospel is.

In your view, does any sin disqualify you from being a child of God and enjoying new covenant blessings, or just the one's you listed?
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Last edited by bradfreeman on 10/15/15 6:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Brad,

You didn't answer it at all.

Much like a politician - you said a lot of something - put out a lot of data - but appear incapable of parsing the data yourself and answering a simple question with a simple answer.

Here it is again:


Quote:
A man is a murderer who commits incest and bestiality. He professes to have been saved, but still kills people and sleeps with his sister and his dog. Are you saying that he can expect to prosper because he is a child of God who is living by grace and enjoying new covenant blessings?


You can go back and read your lengthy discourse - and based on your massive intelligence - you can summarize your answer with yes or no.
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