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 Boring speakers? |
Cojak |
In my experience, those who use translators due to their called or chosen area having several native languages, speak, preach much different than we in the USA COG are used to hearing.
I have come to the conclusion a missionary MUST 'talk', be able to present this Gospel in a way as to convince, convict the subjects. A stem winder of a message, where the congregation knows basically what the next 'thought' will be, and are following with amens just might not work in a missionary situation unless it is a convention in their area.
I am not expressing it well, but basically the missionary is conditioned to speak, preach or testify differently in areas other than the USA and other Bible centered countries.
 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
9/24/15 3:27 pm
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| Re: My opinions |
Dentanner |
| bonnie knox wrote: | I would rather support an ongoing "work," which would probably translate into supporting a missionary who is working in a particular area for a long period of time.
I don't think missionaries should have to take time away from their work in the field to go around begging funds.
I think the communications about what is happening in the various "works" should be a centralized proposition. In other words, the missions department would be responsible for making available newsletters, videos, etc. of each work. |
Thanks Bonnie for the comments! Let me say something about ITINERATION. Itineration or Mission Furlough is important time for the missionary, missionary family, donor support base and the supporting churches. Wayne mentioned the importance of 'communication'. A picture, an email, or even a video does not always convey the vision, work and sacrifice a missionary does.
The itineration is not a time "to beg for money". I don't believe any missionary begs or should beg for money. I give people an opportunity to partner and participate in one of the most exciting and rewarding cross cultural ministries in the world. "ministry, evangelism, ministerial training, and church planting" in Scotland!! I don't have to beg, scripturally every church as an organization and every believer is commanded by Jesus to be involved in World Evangelism (go or send) I simply give them an opportunity to obey Jesus and the Word of God. If they choose to disobey I don't think it is my responsibility to 'beg them to obey'.
Itineration is a time to reconnect with supporting churches. Renew and re-establish lines of communication and relationships. We, as missionaries, are accountable to our donor base.
In spite of a busy and hectic schedule, and driving many, many miles visiting churches and donors, I always schedule a vacation of a couple of weeks and schedule time with my family! This is very important for the life of a missionary and his family. Every minister needs down time and they need down time away from the area of ministry. You see I believe a commitment to a life time call to ministry as a cross cultural ministry is just that a "Life time Ministry". It is not something we do for a week or month or year....Therefore we want to protect the missionary so that he remains healthy, we want to guarantee that he has something to come home to when he does retire...we want to make sure his family is taken care of and does not resent the missionary traveling and living over seas. That is why we raise money, through relationships and partnership with other believers.
Itineration is also a time to encourage, motivate, and be an example to others who have a call on their lives for cross cultural ministry. If I can do it, if I can live in another country, if I can live through it, if I can raise the money, if I can share victorious testimonies of changed lives, if I can learn another language and if I can eat strange unfamiliar food from other cultures, THEN SO CAN YOU!! Very simple my life is a testimony of what God can do through your life!
Itineration does not have to be a bad thing. It is much less expensive to come back to USA for a year to 18 months for renewal, family time, and fund raising than it is to make several trips a year back and forth across the ocean.
Thanks again for all the good comments!
_________________
Dennis Tanner
Administrative Bishop Scotland
Church of God Career Missionary |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 97
9/24/15 5:04 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Yes, we've always called them furloughs. I'm not against that. You might object to my use of the term "beg." Partnering sounds a lot nicer, I'm sure, but I have a strongly held opinion against the system of a missionary having to raise his or her own support. I'm not likely to change that opinion. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
9/24/15 5:26 pm
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| Re: Boring speakers? |
Dentanner |
| Cojak wrote: | In my experience, those who use translators due to their called or chosen area having several native languages, speak, preach much different than we in the USA COG are used to hearing.
I have come to the conclusion a missionary MUST 'talk', be able to present this Gospel in a way as to convince, convict the subjects. A stem winder of a message, where the congregation knows basically what the next 'thought' will be, and are following with amens just might not work in a missionary situation unless it is a convention in their area.
I am not expressing it well, but basically the missionary is conditioned to speak, preach or testify differently in areas other than the USA and other Bible centered countries.
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Cojak, you have touched on a very important subject, that of working with a translator! So many 'short term' evangelists and pastors who visit foreign countries forget that they are speaking to people who do not understand (even though they may speak english) American english. They sure don't understand american jokes, american anecdotes, american colloquialisms and american gestures! Many get into their 'preaching rythym and anointing' and forget that the most important person in the auditorium, hall or tent, is the Translator!! If he, the translator, don't understand the speaker or the message then the people are just going to have a visually entertaining evening. To be effective, long term (make a difference) in a culture it is necessary to learn the language and eat a lot meals with them in their homes.(IMHO)
_________________
Dennis Tanner
Administrative Bishop Scotland
Church of God Career Missionary |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 97
9/24/15 5:28 pm
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Dentanner |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Yes, we've always called them furloughs. I'm not against that. You might object to my use of the term "beg." Partnering sounds a lot nicer, I'm sure, but I have a strongly held opinion against the system of a missionary having to raise his or her own support. I'm not likely to change that opinion. |
Thank you, Bonnie. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that right. In my 30 year experience, working with two different missionary organizations. The missionary raising their own support has proven to be the most effective and lasting, sustaining, method of missionary support. No one can convey the burden or message better than the missionary. Raising money through taxes, dues, portion of tithes, or other means of raising funds through an organization, or having a centralized fund to draw from, has not been very successful. And although I appreciate, solicit, and look for Corporations and Businesses to donate large sums for ministry, I do not think Jesus told corporations and business to "go"! I think it is the responsibility of the individual believer and the church as a whole to partner/support missionaries and world evangelism in obedience to the Word of God.
_________________
Dennis Tanner
Administrative Bishop Scotland
Church of God Career Missionary |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 97
9/24/15 5:37 pm
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| Re: Mission Projects |
Tracy S Hamilton |
| Dentanner wrote: | How many readers would prefer financially supporting a project rather than a missionary? You won't hurt my feelings by your response, I am just interested in knowing and it might help me make some adjustment is my presentation to church mission leaders and pastors.
How many readers have actually switched projects after one year? Is there an understanding or knowledge that most missionaries, cross cultural ministers live and stay in the country or ministry of their calling for longer than a year?
While a project can be completed in one year, a missionary's ministry as a cross cultural minister is a life time commitment!. We may work ourselves out of a job in one area but will alway be faced with another need on the Field that must be met and that is why we stay. |
Great questions: Dennis, our church instituted missions giving from day 1 when we planted our church. We have seen God bless as a result.
I can only speak for our church. We are connected to missionaries and specific countries that God has opened doors for us working with various missions organizations and missionaries.
We have missionaries that we support because we believe in the calling of God that is on their life and we have seen the fruit of their labor, and that missionary or missionaries have a close personal relationship with not only myself, but our church.
There are other countries where we have been connected to certain projects because a need has arisen.
We are getting ready to re-vamp our missions effort in our church. We are wanting to build long-term relationships and see much fruit.
Often times, in the US, it is often easier and more cost effective to do missions in Central and South America. So here is how we have focused our missions.
Young People: Middle School and High School and College age we tend to be more ministry focused. Dramas, music. We go into schools and do anti-drug campaigns and we work with churches doing outreach. We do drama teaching and training.
With college age and up we travel into other areas and do more humanitarian aid with organizations such as PCL and others and that is our open door to share the gospel.
Again, we like building relationships. It is often hard for people to be motivated to support something or someone that they really don't have a connection with.
The missionaries who have come to our church have been great communicators. They are not boring as someone stated in their post. I have heard some boring missionaries, who feel that talking about their "sacrifice" and telling pitiful stories is the best way to get people to give. I know that has actually been taught at one time as being the best way to gain support. I totally disagree.
The missionaries who have come to our church think that being a missionary is the greatest thing in the world. They will share "winning stories" of God doing great things. In fact, they preach a message and build in stories about where they are and what they are doing. They minister to "our" people. Those people affected by that message will give to that missionary.
I have seen missionaries come in and really don't care about building a relationship with pastor's or the congregation but seem to only care about raising money. I guess it is different with each missionary. We have been fortunate with our support of missionaries.
I hope this message makes some sense. I am trying to do a couple of things at the same time....  |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2714
9/24/15 7:39 pm
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Brandon Bohannon |
At our church we have increased missions awareness and giving by using a combination of short-term trips and long-term giving/support. We've seen missions giving increase from $5,000 in 2010 given to YWEA to over $65,000 to the mission field in 2014. We've increased missions as an overall part of the church budget from 2% to 18%. Truthfully our goal is to average 10% so we got a little out of kilter but I do believe that the Father blesses those who bless His people.
While a visit from a missionary may have been effective in years gone by, nothing will put a love for God's mission in a person's heart in today's church like being there and experiencing a place and culture for oneself.
It is true that the short-term trip benefits the attendee more than the place and people but in the long run more can be accomplished and more needed funds raised the more people who go and return with burning hearts and stories for their personal sphere of influence. It is just a fact of our own culture. I personally love going, been going since 2008, and I love taking someone for the very first time. You see a new birth in faith that almost always in my experience leads to a passionate disciple of the Great Commission. It has revolutionized our church and community.
For us, we send $140+ a month to support a full-time missionary in Vietnam, we send $140+ a month to support a full-time pastor in Honduras, we have sent teams to Africa, Honduras, Indonesia and Jamaica. We go to the same village in Honduras every year. We've also done projects in our town, state (TX), Arizona and Oklahoma.
We are in a town of 5,500 people. Our church now has a heart for His mission and a relatively new world view. I personally don't think that it is either/or. All parts of the body are necessary. Even the unseemly parts. My personal opinion is that every church should adopt a country to pray for. We should pray for our own nation. We should pray for Israel. We should pray for our adopted country. Every church should send support to that adopted country either for an indigenous pastor or a missionary. When able, every church should send a team to support and encourage that adopted country. The harvest is plentiful. There are so few workers. Pray to the Lord of the harvest that He will send laborers into the harvest. And who will go for us? Who shall we send? Here am I Lord, send me!
_________________
Proverbs 3:5-6; John 13:34-35; Acts 1:8 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 571
9/25/15 6:10 pm
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Dentanner |
| Brandon Bohannon wrote: | At our church we have increased missions awareness and giving by using a combination of short-term trips and long-term giving/support. We've seen missions giving increase from $5,000 in 2010 given to YWEA to over $65,000 to the mission field in 2014. We've increased missions as an overall part of the church budget from 2% to 18%. Truthfully our goal is to average 10% so we got a little out of kilter but I do believe that the Father blesses those who bless His people.
While a visit from a missionary may have been effective in years gone by, nothing will put a love for God's mission in a person's heart in today's church like being there and experiencing a place and culture for oneself.
It is true that the short-term trip benefits the attendee more than the place and people but in the long run more can be accomplished and more needed funds raised the more people who go and return with burning hearts and stories for their personal sphere of influence. It is just a fact of our own culture. I personally love going, been going since 2008, and I love taking someone for the very first time. You see a new birth in faith that almost always in my experience leads to a passionate disciple of the Great Commission. It has revolutionized our church and community.
For us, we send $140+ a month to support a full-time missionary in Vietnam, we send $140+ a month to support a full-time pastor in Honduras, we have sent teams to Africa, Honduras, Indonesia and Jamaica. We go to the same village in Honduras every year. We've also done projects in our town, state (TX), Arizona and Oklahoma.
We are in a town of 5,500 people. Our church now has a heart for His mission and a relatively new world view. I personally don't think that it is either/or. All parts of the body are necessary. Even the unseemly parts. My personal opinion is that every church should adopt a country to pray for. We should pray for our own nation. We should pray for Israel. We should pray for our adopted country. Every church should send support to that adopted country either for an indigenous pastor or a missionary. When able, every church should send a team to support and encourage that adopted country. The harvest is plentiful. There are so few workers. Pray to the Lord of the harvest that He will send laborers into the harvest. And who will go for us? Who shall we send? Here am I Lord, send me! |
A Great Testimony, good suggestions, and a wonderful success story of Mission ministry. Thanks, Brandon, for sharing!
_________________
Dennis Tanner
Administrative Bishop Scotland
Church of God Career Missionary |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 97
9/26/15 12:53 am
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Cojak |
| Brandon Bohannon wrote: | At our church we have increased missions awareness and giving by using a combination of short-term trips and long-term giving/support. We've seen missions giving increase from $5,000 in 2010 given to YWEA to over $65,000 to the mission field in 2014. We've increased missions as an overall part of the church budget from 2% to 18%.
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The harvest is plentiful. There are so few workers. Pray to the Lord of the harvest that He will send laborers into the harvest. And who will go for us? Who shall we send? Here am I Lord, send me! |
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
9/26/15 9:02 am
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| Re: My opinions |
Cojak |
| Dentanner wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | I would rather support an ongoing "work," which would probably translate into supporting a missionary who is working in a particular area for a long period of time.
I don't think missionaries should have to take time away from their work in the field to go around begging funds.
I think the communications about what is happening in the various "works" should be a centralized proposition. In other words, the missions department would be responsible for making available newsletters, videos, etc. of each work. |
Thanks Bonnie for the comments! Let me say something about ITINERATION. Itineration or Mission Furlough is important time for the missionary, missionary family, donor support base and the supporting churches. Wayne mentioned the importance of 'communication'. A picture, an email, or even a video does not always convey the vision, work and sacrifice a missionary does.
The itineration is not a time "to beg for money". I don't believe any missionary begs or should beg for money. I give people an opportunity to partner and participate in one of the most exciting and rewarding cross cultural ministries in the world. "ministry, evangelism, ministerial training, and church planting" in Scotland!! I don't have to beg, scripturally every church as an organization and every believer is commanded by Jesus to be involved in World Evangelism (go or send) I simply give them an opportunity to obey Jesus and the Word of God. If they choose to disobey I don't think it is my responsibility to 'beg them to obey'.
Itineration is a time to reconnect with supporting churches. Renew and re-establish lines of communication and relationships. We, as missionaries, are accountable to our donor base.
******************************************************
Itineration does not have to be a bad thing. It is much less expensive to come back to USA for a year to 18 months for renewal, family time, and fund raising than it is to make several trips a year back and forth across the ocean.
Thanks again for all the good comments! |
I learn a new word and a better perspective from someone who is there. That is a good thing I have found on Acts. Even an old Dog can find a bone if he looks long enough. Thanks....
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
9/26/15 9:05 am
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| response from Tim Hill(posted on facebook) |
wayne |
In response to an earlier question by my friend, Pastor Wayne Guilliams, who by the way is a tremendous supporter of World Missions, I wish to share the following report and personal point of view. Wayne's questions was ...
"Is it true the AOG has 2,800 full time missionaries, compared to our 35?"
Response:
I can't attest to the numbers of full time missionaries in the Assembly of God. The missionary resource of Church of God World Missions is difficult to define in terms of "full time" only. We have well over 30,000 individuals and families united in global ministries outside the United States and Canada among various classifications of ministry and missionary calling.
Career Missionaries from the United States totally dependent on the funding they receive from donors is now 48 individuals. The Associate, Part Time and Short Term Missionary list is considerably larger. Add to that the list of specialized ministry personnel, seminary presidents, professors and national leaders along with indigenous workers plus national pastors and families. All of this combined historically has helped garner a harvest around the world. In 2013-14 they were used of God to bring in 1.8 million souls into the Kingdom of Heaven. Since September of 2014 until now, this army of men and women have planted almost 4,500
Churches around the world. That is a new church every two hours of the day.
I'm sure the question has more to do with the North American number of missionaries being funded by donors and commissioned by World Missions. However the face of missions has changed and while The North American church is still most active and largely responsible for funding global ministry, it is being verified more and more that as others before me have said, "The Mission Field has become a Mission Force."
Initiatives such as the Miracle Missionary Offering of the 2012 General Assembly that eliminated almost $300,000 in individual Career Missionary account deficits and disbursed over another $300,000 to career missionaries since then, and now the Year of the Missionary emphasis with 12 different Care Connection Points through the year, hopefully will assist Career Missionaries in meaningful ways to express the love and concern of our organization. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1274
9/28/15 7:31 am
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bonnie knox |
Our church does a yearly trip to Ecuador. So, we are sending short-term missionaries each year, and sometimes we do projects like building a church, but all these efforts are in one area which hopefully is a long-term work supporting the local pastors there in Guayaquil, Ecuador. We are working in collaboration with a few other churches in our area and have been doing this for 8 or 9 years.
Most of the money we raise for these projects does not come out of the regular church budget. (Which means the tithes and offerings paid into the church are mostly used for local building rent, maintenance, salaries, etc. That might be good or bad, depending on your perspective.) We have a fund raiser in spring (carnival, yard sale, lunch plate sale). The missionaries who go raise their own support by bake sales, car washes, asking for donations, etc. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
9/28/15 7:53 am
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| my response to Bishop Hill |
wayne |
| Bishop Hill, thank you for answering my question. I remember hearing that report in the past but I am glad you were able to remind us of the great work being done through the COG in the mission fields. I was wondering, is there anything special you would like to see our churches, pastors and members do for our COG missionaries. Maybe, some of our missionaries who view this page could list what they would like to see us do for them. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1274
9/28/15 8:14 am
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| what more can be done? |
wayne |
| Brandon Bohannon wrote: | At our church we have increased missions awareness and giving by using a combination of short-term trips and long-term giving/support. We've seen missions giving increase from $5,000 in 2010 given to YWEA to over $65,000 to the mission field in 2014. We've increased missions as an overall part of the church budget from 2% to 18%. Truthfully our goal is to average 10% so we got a little out of kilter but I do believe that the Father blesses those who bless His people.
While a visit from a missionary may have been effective in years gone by, nothing will put a love for God's mission in a person's heart in today's church like being there and experiencing a place and culture for oneself.
It is true that the short-term trip benefits the attendee more than the place and people but in the long run more can be accomplished and more needed funds raised the more people who go and return with burning hearts and stories for their personal sphere of influence. It is just a fact of our own culture. I personally love going, been going since 2008, and I love taking someone for the very first time. You see a new birth in faith that almost always in my experience leads to a passionate disciple of the Great Commission. It has revolutionized our church and community.
For us, we send $140+ a month to support a full-time missionary in Vietnam, we send $140+ a month to support a full-time pastor in Honduras, we have sent teams to Africa, Honduras, Indonesia and Jamaica. We go to the same village in Honduras every year. We've also done projects in our town, state (TX), Arizona and Oklahoma.
We are in a town of 5,500 people. Our church now has a heart for His mission and a relatively new world view. I personally don't think that it is either/or. All parts of the body are necessary. Even the unseemly parts. My personal opinion is that every church should adopt a country to pray for. We should pray for our own nation. We should pray for Israel. We should pray for our adopted country. Every church should send support to that adopted country either for an indigenous pastor or a missionary. When able, every church should send a team to support and encourage that adopted country. The harvest is plentiful. There are so few workers. Pray to the Lord of the harvest that He will send laborers into the harvest. And who will go for us? Who shall we send? Here am I Lord, send me! |
What can we do as pastors and members to increase awareness for all our missionaries? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1274
9/30/15 9:02 am
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