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Disappointed by the liberal slant of SOME COG Professors
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Post Disappointed by the liberal slant of SOME COG Professors J David Smith
I have not taken the opportunity to post or visit Actscelerate in a couple of months. However, this seemed to be a good place to vent my frustration over the obvious and disturbing liberal slant of many of the professors who are teaching in our Church of God institutions.

I know many of these men and women, and will freely admit that they are brilliant teachers. I am making plans to begin post-graduate studies next year. I also have twins who are High School seniors this year. They are both considering Lee as their top choice. Both Lee and Seminary are incredible institutions in many ways.

Many of the Lee and Seminary professors are my facebook friends. As I read many of their statuses and endorsed links, I become increasingly amazed by how socially, politically and even doctrinally liberal that some of these folks are.

I am a product of both Patten and Lee. I believe that our seminary is one of the best in the country. I have deep roots in the Church of God as a third generation COG pastor. It is because of my love for each of these institutions, that I have great concern for their future, based upon what I see from some of our leading educators.

I don't have the solution, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. However, I think it is negligent to ignore that his is a legitimate issue.
Rolling Eyes[/b]


Last edited by J David Smith on 12/18/12 3:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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12/17/12 11:45 pm


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Post John Jett
Send them a complaint. Its not going to change unless they hear about it. I don't care enough to do it or I would. Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
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12/18/12 12:58 am


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Post Nature Boy Florida
I am not sure why every gun made should be available to every citizen. Or every bomb. Or every chemical weapon. Guess i am too liberal for some.
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12/18/12 5:43 am


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Post fortheleastofthese
Can we clarify the difference between "liberal theology" and "liberal views on gun control"???

I wouldn't worry too much about the future of Lee and definitely not the Seminary (much more theologically conservative than Lee)...

I don't think having a professor voice an opinion on gun laws after a mass shooting is going to jeopardize the future of the institution.

One thing that really annoys me to no end is that by labeling folks "liberal" for having a view on guns puts that person in the same boat as pro-choice and pro-gay marriage based on the name "liberal"...Christian Americans should be able to have an opinion on gun laws independent from other social issues.

I'm pro-life and against gay marriage...But I don't like everyone having access to military weapons capable of mowing down dozens of children at once. Does that make me "liberal" now?


Last edited by fortheleastofthese on 12/18/12 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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12/18/12 10:12 am


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Post Darrell Garrett
I've not spoken to David at all, and I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth, but this liberal slant goes far deeper than gun control. One of these men and I have debated many times, going all the way back to my days at Lee in the 80's over the issue of socialism. He is very strong in his socialist view and pushes it in the classroom I was kicked out his class once for opposing him on it. Like David, I've spoken to some of these men directly but it is like talking to most liberal minded folks; you might as well be talking to a wall. It has troubled me for years that these guys are shaping the minds of our young ministers, and it shows. Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
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12/18/12 10:13 am


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Post fortheleastofthese
Darrell Garrett wrote:
I've not spoken to David at all, and I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth, but this liberal slant goes far deeper than gun control. One of these men and I have debated many times, going all the way back to my days at Lee in the 80's over the issue of socialism. He is very strong in his socialist view and pushes it in the classroom I was kicked out his class once for opposing him on it. Like David, I've spoken to some of these men directly but it is like talking to most liberal minded folks; you might as well be talking to a wall. It has troubled me for years that these guys are shaping the minds of our young ministers, and it shows.


If that's the case, then perhaps there is cause for concern.
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12/18/12 10:16 am


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Post wow Major muricewatsonsfriend
"However, a person who votes for Democrats, or more specifically, for DNC candidates is not a Christian; he is not a follower of Jesus Christ- whether that person is a Lee U professor, a professor at a seminary, or a denominational leader. It doesn't matter who they are or what position they hold.

[i]A person who identifies himself or herself as a follower of Jesus Christ and who supports the Democratic party[/i], and by necessity every single value of its platform including the murder of innocent children, by voting for DNC candidates is a hypocrite and has whored out his or her feigned Christian values in favor of politics and parties.

They're frauds."
and that's found where in the Bible? voting is NOT in the Bible - not one time, so how can you or anyone else speak with such clarity on a subject that the Bible is silent on?
- Darius
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12/18/12 10:39 am


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Post J David Smith
I want to try to say this again. I LOVE LEE AND PTS. I am a product of Lee University. I have two children who are seniors in high school. They are both considering Lee as their top choice for college. I plan to enroll in PTS next year. They are both great institutions. The purpose of my original post IS NOT to slam Lee, Seminary or to mention any names on here.

I have written a letter to both Paul Conn and Stephen Land that details my specific concerns. This forum is not the place to address specifics. My post here is intended to create dialogue about the increasing influence of socially and politically liberal educators within our institutions. It is negligent to stick our heads in the proverbial sand and pretend that it is not an issue!

Gun control just happens to be the hot topic right now. My post was not about gun control. It is about the increasing number politically and socially liberal educators within our Church of God institutions. It is much larger than the issue of gun control.

I am in favor of critical thought and diversity of opinion. However, it is ludicrous for us to support those who would teach within our Church of God institutions who do not hold strongly to a Biblical worldview.

My son is presently being recruited to play basketball at Emory. As I began to research that particular school, I was intrigued to discover that they also have deep Wesleyan roots. However, it is now considered as one of the most liberal universities in the country. This did not happen over night.

I have had discussions with every one of those whom I have concerns with. Too often, they are arrogantly defensive of their ideology and use the same MO of organizations such as MSNBC and moveon.org, to label anyone who disagrees with their view as "tea baggers", "Right wing extremists", and etc.

I love the Church of God, Lee University and PTS too much to ignore that we have an issue!
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12/18/12 11:20 am


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Post John Jett
Most people who are liberal in one area are liberal in all. Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
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12/18/12 11:22 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Anyone who has read many of the posts on Actscelerate for very long knows there are apparently more than a few politically liberal people in the CoG. Institutions of higher learning are generally going to have more liberals than your average local CoG. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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12/18/12 11:32 am


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Post bonnie knox
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
Anyone who has read many of the posts on Actscelerate for very long knows there are apparently more than a few politically liberal people in the CoG. Institutions of higher learning are generally going to have more liberals than your average local CoG.


In order to keep that cycle working, you have to have "proper" indoctrination at the institutes of higher learning so that "educated" people develop that liberal worldview.
I think that is the concern here.
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12/18/12 11:40 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
I would say agreement with the fundamentals of evangelical Christianity would be something that would distinguish theologically evangelical believers from theological liberals. Over the years I have often been amazed at the political views of some who claim to be evangelical Christians. I don't think liberal theology or politics are limited to Wesleyans by any means. Theological liberalism historically has occurred in many Protestant denominations of various kinds whenever the authority of the Bible begins to be seriously questioned within their ranks, usually in the halls of academia first. The churches and colleges that were started by the Puritans and Calvinists in early American history basically were almost all theologically liberal by the mid 1800s, due largely to the influence of modern skepticism of the authority of the Bible. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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12/18/12 11:47 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
I remember being quite surprised to hear a good friend of mine in Bible college say that from his fundamental Calvinistic Baptist background, anyone who believed in free will (basically Arminians) was liberal.

Prior to that I had always felt it was the Once Saved Always saved doctrine that was a liberal idea, the idea that God would never condemn anyone for any sin if they had repeated the sinner's prayer at least once.
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12/18/12 11:56 am


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Post fortheleastofthese
John Jett wrote:
Most people who are liberal in one area are liberal in all.


Statistically, that might be true, but it does not have to be that way. There are plenty of conservative evangelical Christians who are pro-life and anti-gay marriage who also think Assault weapons are not cool or patriotic.

This newly accepted idea of a one size fits all Republican is what cost the GOP the election. Drawing a line in the sand and claiming an all or nothing ideology is a loosing strategy. Being an evil liberal used to mean that you stand for secularism rather than righteousness. Being a liberal meant that you actively seek to replace a Christian Worldview with an atheist or agnostic worldview...

Now, apparently anyone is a liberal (and not a real patriot) if they:

1) Think Assault Weapons should be restricted.
2) If they think discussions on renewable energy are important for our future.
3) If they think the U.S. should make it easier and more affordable for children of illegal aliens to become citizens.
4) If strategic Defense cuts (combined with all the other cuts to major programs) could play a role in helping us balance the budget.
5) And the list goes on...

The recent line in the sand has pushed many "moderates" into "liberal" territory. I hate it personally because I agree with conservatives on everything but the above...The Dems seem to welcome with open arms anyone who has even a shred of common ground, but the GOP has become a very angry and harsh party set on "purifying" its ideology by labeling everyone as a "liberal" (even if they are not in most areas)...

I voted GOP, but I don't like the constant bickering taking place...When party leaders start calling Gov. Christie and Gov. Jindal "liberal appeasers" for finding any common ground on certain issues (or even tragic events!) we have a big problem.
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12/18/12 12:11 pm


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Post John Jett
The GOP is a liberal party too because of their deficit spending. And yes, if someone believes that the second amendment should be abridged then they are liberal by definition.


You're other points are debatable and not necessarily liberal (unless they require deficit spending of course).
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12/18/12 12:26 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
J David Smith wrote:
I want to try to say this again. I LOVE LEE AND PTS. I am a product of Lee University. I have two children who are seniors in high school. They are both considering Lee as their top choice for college. I plan to enroll in PTS next year. They are both great institutions. The purpose of my original post IS NOT to slam Lee, Seminary or to mention any names on here.

I have written a letter to both Paul Conn and Stephen Land that details my specific concerns. This forum is not the place to address specifics. My post here is intended to create dialogue about the increasing influence of socially and politically liberal educators within our institutions. It is negligent to stick our heads in the proverbial sand and pretend that it is not an issue!

Gun control just happens to be the hot topic right now. My post was not about gun control. It is about the increasing number politically and socially liberal educators within our Church of God institutions. It is much larger than the issue of gun control.

I am in favor of critical thought and diversity of opinion. However, it is ludicrous for us to support those who would teach within our Church of God institutions who do not hold strongly to a Biblical worldview.

My son is presently being recruited to play basketball at Emory. As I began to research that particular school, I was intrigued to discover that they also have deep Wesleyan roots. However, it is now considered as one of the most liberal universities in the country. This did not happen over night.

I have had discussions with every one of those whom I have concerns with. Too often, they are arrogantly defensive of their ideology and use the same MO of organizations such as MSNBC and moveon.org, to label anyone who disagrees with their view as "tea baggers", "Right wing extremists", and etc.

I love the Church of God, Lee University and PTS too much to ignore that we have an issue!


Understood David.

I figured it was deeper than that.

But your post made it sound like gun control made them liberal - and my post pointed out that is not the case.

Let us know how it goes.

I got a son heading to Lee. I will let you know his impressions. He is a pretty big 2nd amendment rights guy as his heroes are all cops and military family members.

So if he ever runs into a teacher like that - he will no doubt have a lively debate.
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12/18/12 12:35 pm


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Post Bro Bob
Imagine devoting your entire life to nothing but learning and teaching. Not doing. Observing. Analyzing. Debating. Not creating. Not working. Studying.

Now imagine that you came up with nothing any different than what Solomon declared millennia ago. You have discovered nothing that wasn't known before. You have wasted your life. So you MUST discover the answer to questions no one asked before. You MUST go against what is and has always been, or your life was wasted.

How ironic it is that it is impossible for change not to come, and yet on many things the proposed 'change' is not new, it has been tried and tested and found lacking. It is no wonder to me that the idea that we must change (liberal fundamental), and this is HOW we must change, and this is the improvement the change will bring... is created and embraced most strongly by those who have devoted their life to exactly this study.

None of my best teachers were paid to teach. Not in life. Not in Bible study. Not in finances. Not one.

Vanity. All of it is vanity. If you would learn to be successful, observe what has worked and do that. If you would learn to avoid failure, observe what has failed and don't do it.

I know at least one of the professors of whom you speak. Wonderful man. Kind and compassionate heart. The only thing I learned from him was that kindness covers a lot of non-sense.


Last edited by Bro Bob on 12/18/12 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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12/18/12 1:02 pm


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Post theElder
John Jett wrote: "Most people who are liberal in one area are liberal in all."

I am continually amazed at the people on Acts who are able to make such broad statements! I suppose this means you have been able to talk to 'most' people who are liberal?? Rolling Eyes

From the conversations I have had I seem to find that none of the folks I have talked that are liberals can be described as liberal on every issue nor are the conservatives that I have talked to been conservative on every issue.
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12/18/12 1:28 pm


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Post Major B zjudah1
You are 100% correct. I was saying that during the election.

I will also add that no matter what laws you my need to add to the books, or take away, you will never legislate evil!

It was against the law to kill babies in the womb when I was younger, it didn't stop them then, and since they couldn't win that war, they just legalized it.

Note: Sorry if this distracts from the original post. I saw a soap box, and jumped on it.
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12/18/12 1:29 pm


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Post Re: wow Major Troy Hamby
Major B. Trammell wrote:
muricewatsonsfriend wrote:
Major B. Trammell wrote:
However, a person who votes for Democrats, or more specifically, for DNC candidates is not a Christian; he is not a follower of Jesus Christ- whether that person is a Lee U professor, a professor at a seminary, or a denominational leader. It doesn't matter who they are or what position they hold.

A person who identifies himself or herself as a follower of Jesus Christ and who supports the Democratic party, and by necessity every single value of its platform including the murder of innocent children, by voting for DNC candidates is a hypocrite and has whored out his or her feigned Christian values in favor of politics and parties.

They're frauds."


and that's found where in the Bible? voting is NOT in the Bible - not one time, so how can you or anyone else speak with such clarity on a subject that the Bible is silent on?
- Darius


It's not about merely voting. It's about supporting evil, wickedness, injustice, and immorality and claiming to be a follower of a righteous, just, and moral Christ.

When you vote for a political candidate, you also are voting for the platform upon which they are running. The two are inseparable.

The "right" to murder a child at a woman's convenience, the defense of that evil and wicked practice, the pursuit and pledge to keep it legal and to fight all restrictions regarding it is part of the platform- the stated goals, ideals, and philosophy of the Democratic National Committee. It is what the Democratic National Committee and its candidates promise to pursue or accomplish if elected.

When a person votes for a candidate from the Democratic National Committee party, he is absolutely, positively, without question, casting his or her support for that platform- to support and defend the murder of children.

Followers of Jesus Christ- Christians- do not support the inhumane slaughter of innocent children. Period. Thus, followers of Jesus Christ- Christians- do not cast their support for those who promise to fight to continue such evil and wicked immorality.

Those who claim to be Christians, followers of a righteous, holy, just, moral Savior- Jesus Christ- and, yet, who practice, support, and defend evil, wickedness, injustice, and immorality are hypocrites, by the very definition, and have whored out their feigned and pretended Christian values in favor of politics.

You cannot be complicit in evil and be a follower of Jesus. The Bible is NOT silent.

It is what it is.


no, no, no Major, you're wrong! Didn't you hear that as long as you don't vote a straight democratic ticket, you are okay? ((according to theElder)) And if you only vote for local democrats, like county commissioner, that's okay too (because they're not "real" democrats I guess).
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12/18/12 2:35 pm


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