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Why do small churches stay small? |
COGLayman |
From everything I have seen, small churches (under 100) stay small. Especially once they have some age on them, say 15 or 20 years old. Why is that? A church may run 50 people and run that for years, even in a town where thousands of unchurched people live. This is kind of the norm.
Why do most small churches stay small, but a few take off? There are exceptions to every rule but in general small churches (pastors and/or members) do things that cause them to stay small. However is seems most people in these churches really don't have a clue as to why they stay small. They do have a lot of excuses.
There are many pastors that know what it takes to build a church. Why is it that when they share these things with the small churches that most of the time it doesn't make a difference? They small churches don't do anything differently despite hearing from someone who knows what they are talking about? Yet, they usually say they really want to grow.
I think the biggest reason churches don't grow it that there is a lack of effective leadership. That doesn't mean anyone is a bad person, they just lack the necessary skills to bring growth. What would it take for someone to have those skills?
Why don't most small churches grow? What do you think? |
Friendly Face Posts: 256 9/18/12 5:22 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
One reason is that if you are a family looking for a church, it's pretty hard to take your teenagers where there the youth group has 4 kids in it. The same for the younger children. I believe that most families choose their church based on what is offered to their kids. Small churches just can't do it for them. |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 9/18/12 5:39 pm
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Re: Why do small churches stay small? |
InspiredHillbilly |
COGLayman wrote: | From everything I have seen, small churches (under 100) stay small. Especially once they have some age on them, say 15 or 20 years old. Why is that? A church may run 50 people and run that for years, even in a town where thousands of unchurched people live. This is kind of the norm.
Why do most small churches stay small, but a few take off? There are exceptions to every rule but in general small churches (pastors and/or members) do things that cause them to stay small. However is seems most people in these churches really don't have a clue as to why they stay small. They do have a lot of excuses.
There are many pastors that know what it takes to build a church. Why is it that when they share these things with the small churches that most of the time it doesn't make a difference? They small churches don't do anything differently despite hearing from someone who knows what they are talking about? Yet, they usually say they really want to grow.
I think the biggest reason churches don't grow it that there is a lack of effective leadership. That doesn't mean anyone is a bad person, they just lack the necessary skills to bring growth. What would it take for someone to have those skills?
Why don't most small churches grow? What do you think? |
Who says it's supposed to grow numerically to show that the church is strong spiritually? Everything that gets bigger isn't necessarily growing. If you don't believe me, then look at a dead dog on the side of the road... he'll swell up and get bigger... but that dog is dead as 4 o'clock. Numeric growth is not an indicator of spiritual growth of a church, especially in rural conditions, etc. It can be, but isn't always. _________________ Rev. C. Todd Robbins
Evangelist - Emmanuel Churches of Christ
The Greatest Risk... is the Risk of Regret... |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2118 9/18/12 5:46 pm
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skinnybishop |
Eddie Robbins wrote: | One reason is that if you are a family looking for a church, it's pretty hard to take your teenagers where there the youth group has 4 kids in it. The same for the younger children. I believe that most families choose their church based on what is offered to their kids. Small churches just can't do it for them. |
I agree with that statement. On the other hand, it can be fairly difficult to grow more productive ministries, when people won't give smaller churches a chance.
That is one reason churches stay small. For certain, that is not the only reason. My point is, few people want to help develop and build ministries. They want to walk into one that is already in place, with all the bells and whistles.
As a pastor of a smaller church, it can often feel like you are chasing your tail. You have a small youth group or children's ministry, but can't grow because everybody wants to take their family to the huge church across town.....that has 200 kids on Wednesday night.
How are you going to grow if people won't give the 4 person youth group a chance? |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1055 9/18/12 6:08 pm
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InspiredHillbilly |
skinnybishop wrote: | Eddie Robbins wrote: | One reason is that if you are a family looking for a church, it's pretty hard to take your teenagers where there the youth group has 4 kids in it. The same for the younger children. I believe that most families choose their church based on what is offered to their kids. Small churches just can't do it for them. |
I agree with that statement. On the other hand, it can be fairly difficult to grow more productive ministries, when people won't give smaller churches a chance.
That is one reason churches stay small. For certain, that is not the only reason. My point is, few people want to help develop and build ministries. They want to walk into one that is already in place, with all the bells and whistles.
As a pastor of a smaller church, it can often feel like you are chasing your tail. You have a small youth group or children's ministry, but can't grow because everybody wants to take their family to the huge church across town.....that has 200 kids on Wednesday night.
How are you going to grow if people won't give the 4 person youth group a chance? |
Too many people who are already "christians" and looking for a church are looking as consumers.... what can this church do for me, my kids, my family... what does it have to offer... and if something doesn't hit that list... somehow it's not God's will for them to be there. They can't even comprehend going somewhere their teens are the only teens and imagine that God may want them there... why? because they are consumers... church shopping.
And on top of that... too many churches play to that mentality... trying to "sell" their church to guests/visitors. Frankly, if someone visits and the size of the youth group, or children's ministry... or physical building... or quality of music play into the decision of whether that should be their home church... their heart isn't right to begin with. None of that should matter and the only thing that should matter is if the Lord wants them there....
The church I'm a part of right now I would never... absolutely never choose on my own. We run about 25 on Sunday morning, the music is horrible as far as it's listening quality, and there is almost no one in my age group.... but for some reason the Lord said this was the place... and I'm in love with it so much I couldn't imagine being elsewhere. Finding our place within the body shouldn't be decided upon by who has the most bells and whistles....the shiniest toys.... it should be decided on where we fit in with God's plan.... _________________ Rev. C. Todd Robbins
Evangelist - Emmanuel Churches of Christ
The Greatest Risk... is the Risk of Regret... |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2118 9/18/12 6:13 pm
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Patrick Harris |
InspiredHillbilly wrote: |
And on top of that... too many churches play to that mentality... trying to "sell" their church to guests/visitors. Frankly, if someone visits and the size of the youth group, or children's ministry... or physical building... or quality of music play into the decision of whether that should be their home church... their heart isn't right to begin with. None of that should matter and the only thing that should matter is if the Lord wants them there....
... |
Really. What a tremendously bad statement. Because some chooses a church based on the fact that their children are more likely to be engaged in that church their heart isn't right.
That's frankly my main concern when I pick a church. First-do I agree with their beliefs, second - will my children be involved and active in that church.
I seen nothing in the Bible that leads me to believe that the Lord needs me to be in a specific church.
I can worship anywhere, my focus is will my children be engaged and active.
Patrick |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1323 9/18/12 6:27 pm
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InspiredHillbilly |
Patrick Harris wrote: | InspiredHillbilly wrote: |
And on top of that... too many churches play to that mentality... trying to "sell" their church to guests/visitors. Frankly, if someone visits and the size of the youth group, or children's ministry... or physical building... or quality of music play into the decision of whether that should be their home church... their heart isn't right to begin with. None of that should matter and the only thing that should matter is if the Lord wants them there....
... |
Really. What a tremendously bad statement. Because some chooses a church based on the fact that their children are more likely to be engaged in that church their heart isn't right.
That's frankly my main concern when I pick a church. First-do I agree with their beliefs, second - will my children be involved and active in that church.
I seen nothing in the Bible that leads me to believe that the Lord needs me to be in a specific church.
I can worship anywhere, my focus is will my children be engaged and active.
Patrick |
then we will have to agree to disagree... _________________ Rev. C. Todd Robbins
Evangelist - Emmanuel Churches of Christ
The Greatest Risk... is the Risk of Regret... |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2118 9/18/12 6:31 pm
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Patrick Harris |
InspiredHillbilly wrote: | Patrick Harris wrote: | InspiredHillbilly wrote: |
And on top of that... too many churches play to that mentality... trying to "sell" their church to guests/visitors. Frankly, if someone visits and the size of the youth group, or children's ministry... or physical building... or quality of music play into the decision of whether that should be their home church... their heart isn't right to begin with. None of that should matter and the only thing that should matter is if the Lord wants them there....
... |
Really. What a tremendously bad statement. Because some chooses a church based on the fact that their children are more likely to be engaged in that church their heart isn't right.
That's frankly my main concern when I pick a church. First-do I agree with their beliefs, second - will my children be involved and active in that church.
I seen nothing in the Bible that leads me to believe that the Lord needs me to be in a specific church.
I can worship anywhere, my focus is will my children be engaged and active.
Patrick |
then we will have to agree to disagree... |
Doesn't matter. Since you don't have children or are married, it's all theory for you. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1323 9/18/12 6:33 pm
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InspiredHillbilly |
Patrick Harris wrote: | InspiredHillbilly wrote: | Patrick Harris wrote: | InspiredHillbilly wrote: |
And on top of that... too many churches play to that mentality... trying to "sell" their church to guests/visitors. Frankly, if someone visits and the size of the youth group, or children's ministry... or physical building... or quality of music play into the decision of whether that should be their home church... their heart isn't right to begin with. None of that should matter and the only thing that should matter is if the Lord wants them there....
... |
Really. What a tremendously bad statement. Because some chooses a church based on the fact that their children are more likely to be engaged in that church their heart isn't right.
That's frankly my main concern when I pick a church. First-do I agree with their beliefs, second - will my children be involved and active in that church.
I seen nothing in the Bible that leads me to believe that the Lord needs me to be in a specific church.
I can worship anywhere, my focus is will my children be engaged and active.
Patrick |
then we will have to agree to disagree... |
Doesn't matter. Since you don't have children or are married, it's all theory for you. |
LOL, like single folks don't have things they wish a church had? Like there aren't as many single people out church shopping as their are families?
And that old flimsy come back that someone has to have a certain experience to have a valid opinion or wisdom about it is contrary to scripture and frankly ridiculous.
If any man lacks wisdom, all he has to do is ask of God for it... doesn't say he has to "live it" first.... and the "fear of the Lord is beginning of wisdom"... not having experienced it first hand. That's why God can give folks insight about situations without them having to have "been there." _________________ Rev. C. Todd Robbins
Evangelist - Emmanuel Churches of Christ
The Greatest Risk... is the Risk of Regret... |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2118 9/18/12 6:37 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
Quote: | I can worship anywhere, my focus is will my children be engaged and active. |
Exactly right. |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 9/18/12 6:37 pm
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Cojak |
My dad was a SS promoter. His advice to increasing church was get the children into your Sunday School, a real teaching SS. Even without mom & Dad, get the kids. The parents will come on special occasions, but get the kids. TIME is the key, TIME IS THE KEY. If you get 20 kids 5-6 and keep them 15 years you have a great core to grow. If you will pay the price and do that every year, you win souls for the kingdom.
He wore out many a car getting those kids to church, and it paid off. In the 7 churches he pastored Each one was at least 50% larger in attendance. A couple were 100%+.
Maybe times have changed, but kids have not. They want to be apart of something. Size doesn't matter to a 6 yr old if the parents will allow him/her to attend. It is the unchurched kids that can grow a church.
Naturally a family who is founded in church want the best for their kids. Large youth groups etc. Nothing wrong with that.
REMEMBER it is the unchurched that need the guidance, love and above all Jesus. It is the kids that will come if given the chance. The parents may be drug addicts/drunks or what ever but they will usually allow their kids to go to church. _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 9/18/12 6:38 pm
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Maybe target demograph is the key... |
Clint Wills |
When we moved to Bend the church had 13 people - and 4 of those were us. My sister and I were both college age kids, and that is who we "recruited" so-to-speak. We reached out to people our age and that is where we grew. They are people with a ton of energy and no concerns about kids.
The other age group we grew in was that of my parents - empty nesters. These people also had a renewed energy, time on their hands, and finances that us younger people didn't have. It was a GREAT way to grow at that time.
Both groups were necessary because of the youthful energy of the 20-25 year olds along with the wisdom and finances of the older generation. Growing in JUST the younger generation would have left us without the necessary finances to effectively reach out, but growing in JUST the older generation would have left us without the energy and youthfulness that I believe a church needs to grow.
Maybe we shouldn't be targeting the 30-50 year old who have little kids and teenagers, but rather the groups on both ends of that spectrum. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5161 9/18/12 6:53 pm
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Clint Wills |
InspiredHillbilly wrote: |
And on top of that... too many churches play to that mentality... trying to "sell" their church to guests/visitors. Frankly, if someone visits and the size of the youth group, or children's ministry... or physical building... or quality of music play into the decision of whether that should be their home church... their heart isn't right to begin with.
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Since when are we trying to reach people who's heart is in the right place?? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5161 9/18/12 6:55 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
InspiredHillbilly wrote: |
Too many people who are already "christians" and looking for a church are looking as consumers.... what can this church do for me, my kids, my family... what does it have to offer... and if something doesn't hit that list... somehow it's not God's will for them to be there. They can't even comprehend going somewhere their teens are the only teens and imagine that God may want them there... why? because they are consumers... church shopping.
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Totally disagree.
A parent that doesn't look out for the welfare of their kids - isn't much of a parent. Putting them in a church with no other young people would be a dereliction of duty. If a church has no young people - they obviously don't have a heart for young people. _________________ Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 9/18/12 7:14 pm
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Some thoughts...from someone who thinks about it |
Aaron Scott |
Churches are like stores--they offer different types of "products" to different types of people.
Many people PREFER a smaller church. I had an uncle who was a tremendous guitarist. But his type of music was the Red Back hymnal. So he naturally gravitated to those churches. More than that, he knew that if he went to a large church with a highly specialized music department, he'd never get to play.
There are people who prefer a larger church. I like to think it is because larger churches usually have a large number of areas to meet family needs. They may have a school, a day care, a world-class Children's Church, or great young married group, etc. Moreover, they often have pretty good music (though I know of large churches that...don't). Or it might be that some people prefer the relative anonymity of going to a larger church. They can miss a service without being noticed, etc.
Every church is not going to become a "Wal-mart." Not only do they not have the ability, they also do not have any desire to do that. They feel called to meet the needs of a niche group--perhaps seniors, old fashioned believers, or super-edgy types.
Also, churches have LIFE SPANS. You build a great church in a great neighborhood. Before long, you have a great church. But over time, the neighborhood changes. People grow old, die, or otherwise move on. Children graduate from college and move elsewhere. Demographics are now completely at odds with the type of church that was first created. Not everyone has the ability to change. And sometimes, another, newer, church is already meeting the latest needs of the community. Further, if the pastor resigns or moves on, the new pastor might be very different, causing the church to shrink even more.
Here's the thing I try to keep in mind. The Church of God has been MASSIVELY effective in spreading the Pentecostal message using SMALL CHURCHES. Maybe the "personal touch" is more effective than we think. If small churches weren't doing such a great job, then I'd be more worried. But when you have, say, 4000 Churches of God, all of them small, and all seeing decent results, you really have something.
Then there's this reason.... Consider that if you have 5 COGs in a single city, along with a number of other Pentecostal or evangelical churches, at some point, you will have largely reached everyone that, at least for then, REACHABLE. Yes, there may 80% of the population in that area that does not attend church, but that's not for lack of the churches trying. There are just some folks who are not going to ever (perhaps) really link into church. That's not the fault of the churches.
At some point, a church is reaching all it can with that leadership and worship style. To argue that they must change is to argue that they ought to begin a process that may alienate the folks that have sunk their lives into that church. Let them serve who the Lord has given them to serve. After all, He made some rulers over much, and some rulers over few. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 9/18/12 7:14 pm
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InspiredHillbilly |
Clint Wills wrote: | InspiredHillbilly wrote: |
And on top of that... too many churches play to that mentality... trying to "sell" their church to guests/visitors. Frankly, if someone visits and the size of the youth group, or children's ministry... or physical building... or quality of music play into the decision of whether that should be their home church... their heart isn't right to begin with.
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Since when are we trying to reach people who's heart is in the right place?? |
taking my comment out of context... wasn't talkin about soul winning or the unchurched... this was more in reference to "christians" who are looking for a church for some reason. _________________ Rev. C. Todd Robbins
Evangelist - Emmanuel Churches of Christ
The Greatest Risk... is the Risk of Regret... |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2118 9/18/12 7:16 pm
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sheepdogandy |
Some congregations are small because the people like it that way.
They prefer an intimate enviorment.
However in our small county, growth seems to follow pastors who "work the people".
Or provide excellent music ministry.
I overheard a man comment. "We go to ------- church because they got the best sanging".
The largest church in our county once ran about 4 on Wed night.
Their pastor was a genuine man of God. Blameless.
After he retired his successor "worked the people" and the congregation grew.
When that man left the church was running well over 200 on Sun AM.
Having crossed that barrier, they have been in cruise control ever since.
Go figure. _________________ Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7307 9/18/12 7:42 pm
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Re: Some thoughts...from someone who thinks about it |
Cojak |
Aaron Scott wrote: | Churches are like stores--they offer different types of "products" to different types of people.
......................................................
Many people PREFER a smaller church.
At some point, a church is reaching all it can with that leadership and worship style. To argue that they must change is to argue that they ought to begin a process that may alienate the folks that have sunk their lives into that church. Let them serve who the Lord has given them to serve. After all, He made some rulers over much, and some rulers over few. |
Very good points my friend. I prefer the smaller church as a member, due to my hearing. I prefer the larger church as a visitor so I can be lost in the crowd. _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 9/18/12 8:04 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
I don't think every church is meant to be a large church. Smaller and medium-sized churches also serve their purposes. Some people prefer smaller churches because there's a more homey/family feel to it. Some prefer the buzz & activity of a larger church and where they have less responsibility/accountability. None of the sizes (small, med, large) are necessarily a bad thing.
I tend to agree with Hillbilly that we were more led to particular churches based on if we felt we were to be a part of that church. We didn't have problems with our kids fitting in with the group, for the most part, except in a larger church we attended, actually. Since they were home-schooled rather than public schooled, they weren't as accepted in the youth group as those who went to public school. They had their own circle of church friends they hung out with. Of course, you want your kids ministered to and you want them active in church, but church activities were never the deciding factor re: where we would attend. _________________ "More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 9/18/12 9:45 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
Quote: | Many people PREFER a smaller church. |
But not the same small church.
Yogi Berra once said "nobody goes there anymore because it's too crowded." |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 9/19/12 5:30 am
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