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Dean Steenburgh |
In California you can be married prior to a license application for about 3 biz days & I have done them before w/out a license present. In the sight of God they were married & the technicality is in the paper work. I would assemble them after bible study & conduct a quick vow replay, sign off & let the registrar handle it.
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"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
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Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
1/18/12 9:06 pm
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Poimen |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | The clerk is misinformed. |
I daresay the clerk is well informed on the legal requirements, and I can't imagine why the pastor would not want to fulfill the legal requirements in this situation. |
I dare say she isn't. The legalities only pertain to the documentation of the marriage, and the money to be made in forcing people to purchase one. The license, nor the state, does not marry anyone. The covenant is what makes people married. The license is what legally recognizes the marriage. There IS a difference.
I didn't suggest a pastor not fulfill the legal requirements. I only said the couple IS married, whether they lied or not, and whether they have/had a marriage license or not.
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Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
1/18/12 11:17 pm
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bonnie knox |
| You don't think the clerk is informed on the legal requirements? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/18/12 11:22 pm
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| You think Adam had a certificate f marriage to Eve? |
Poimen |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | You don't think the clerk is informed on the legal requirements? |
The legal requirements for receiving and filing a marriage license? Yes. But the piece of paper has nothing to do with the actual union.
If the two were biblically eligible to be wed, and took vows or covenanted together for the same, then they are man and wife with or without a certificate of marriage. What God has joined togther let not man (including a county/city clerk) put asunder.
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Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
1/19/12 12:49 am
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bonnie knox |
| Poimen wrote: | | The clerk is misinformed. |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | I daresay the clerk is well informed on the legal requirements, ... |
| Poimen wrote: | | I dare say she isn't. ... |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | You don't think the clerk is informed on the legal requirements? |
| Poimen wrote: | | The legal requirements for receiving and filing a marriage license? Yes. |
I think most people understand that the clerk of court is speaking from a legal perspective and not pontificating on the theological ramifications of marriage. So when the clerk of court said, "They are not married," the reasonable implication is that they are not legally married - in other words, not married in sight of the law of the land. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/19/12 1:24 am
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| Re: You think Adam had a certificate f marriage to Eve? |
mytimewillcome |
| Poimen wrote: |
If the two were biblically eligible to be wed, and took vows or covenanted together for the same, then they are man and wife with or without a certificate of marriage. What God has joined togther let not man (including a county/city clerk) put asunder. |
So we should give no attention to local laws? |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3658
1/19/12 1:26 am
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Poimen |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Poimen wrote: | | The clerk is misinformed. |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | I daresay the clerk is well informed on the legal requirements, ... |
| Poimen wrote: | | I dare say she isn't. ... |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | You don't think the clerk is informed on the legal requirements? |
| Poimen wrote: | | The legal requirements for receiving and filing a marriage license? Yes. |
I think most people understand that the clerk of court is speaking from a legal perspective and not pontificating on the theological ramifications of marriage. So when the clerk of court said, "They are not married," the reasonable implication is that they are not legally married - in other words, not married in sight of the law of the land. |
Even if so, I still think the clerk misinformed. That or she misspoke. While it is true that without a license the marriage may not be legally recognized, it is not true that they are not married. In fact I know of cases where the government recognized marriages that didn't have a certificate, or lost one, or got one later, etc.
It may seem like splitting hairs, but I don't think so. I am not willing to surrender a divine and universal institution to government.
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Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
1/19/12 1:41 am
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| Re: You think Adam had a certificate f marriage to Eve? |
Poimen |
| mytimewillcome wrote: | | Poimen wrote: |
If the two were biblically eligible to be wed, and took vows or covenanted together for the same, then they are man and wife with or without a certificate of marriage. What God has joined togther let not man (including a county/city clerk) put asunder. |
So we should give no attention to local laws? |
I didn't say that. I am simply answering the question as to whether the couple in the OP are or are not married.
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Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
1/19/12 1:44 am
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Link |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | and say, "By the power invested in me..." |
Please, don't, or I will have to put you on the lose/loose thread. It's by the power vested in me. |
I guess I should proofread my posts. But why should I when you'll do it for me. 
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
1/19/12 4:13 am
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usefull |
| I guess I'm out of the picture on this one...they didn't come to church last night. Not surprised, but man, beginning your marriage on a lie...can it get any better? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 348
1/19/12 6:40 am
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georgiapath |
| usefull wrote: | | I guess I'm out of the picture on this one...they didn't come to church last night. Not surprised, but man, beginning your marriage on a lie...can it get any better? |
See, you worried for nothing.  |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7604
1/19/12 8:00 am
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bonnie knox |
| Link wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | and say, "By the power invested in me..." |
Please, don't, or I will have to put you on the lose/loose thread. It's by the power vested in me. |
I guess I should proofread my posts. But why should I when you'll do it for me. |
Yes, you should proofread your own posts. The "vested" thing is just a pet peeve for me. I let a lot of your errors slide.  |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/19/12 10:20 am
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sonofasoldier |
| They were married when they slept together. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 593
1/19/12 12:58 pm
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Clint Wills |
| sonofasoldier wrote: | | They were married when they slept together. |
So...anyone that has sex before they are officially married is actually married?? Man, that makes life a TON easier!! I guess we can stop telling our teenagers to not have sex before marriage, because sex IS marriage!! What we should say, then, is only have sex with one person for your entire life. When you start is really up to you. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5161
1/19/12 1:16 pm
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Link |
| sonofasoldier wrote: | | They were married when they slept together. |
Do you mean since they made the covenant, or that anyone who sleeps together is married.
In the Old Testament, for a virgin daughter, the man gave the bride's father a bride price. If a man seduced a virgin, he had to pay her father a bride-price. But, the father had the right to refuse to give her to him as a wife. It wasn't a matter of her choosing a covenant. The father had to agree to it.
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
1/19/12 4:19 pm
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| Re: Assuming they were biblically eligible ... |
Truman Smith |
| Poimen wrote: | | They ARE married. The clerk is misinformed. The certificate of marriage is for legal documenting purposes, and does not itself unite anyone in matrimony. It's paperwork. The covenant is what weds them, not the state, nor the church for that matter. |
I really hate to disagree here my friend but your conclusions are way off .They are not married until they obey the laws of the land . Peter tells us ,"to obey every ordiance of man ". Now the Government grants us the right to perform the ceremony . We do not have the right to proclaim them married ever without the authorization of the Government . Poimen I do not remember ever not agreeing with you until now . God Bless . T |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1073
1/19/12 9:26 pm
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| Truman Here |
Truman Smith |
| sonofasoldier wrote: | | They were married when they slept together. |
This statement is as wrong as any statement ever has been . Having sex without the blessings of marriage has never been the requirements of a binding marriage . I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE OR HOW SOME OF THE STATEMENTS MADE ON THIS BOARD CAN BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. As a matter of fact it is SIN .God Bless . T |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1073
1/19/12 9:33 pm
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Kyle Morrow |
What I would do is find this couple. It sounds like they are in need of some pastoral help. They seem to have some issues that need to be resolved. I would approach them with a spirit of mercy and grace rather than confrontation.
I also wouldn't push the issue of compensation. If you are a pastor, you most likely draw a salary from your church. If they are not affiliated with your church, I could understand a reasonable fee to cover utility expense or cleanup. Honorariums on top of that are nice, but I never ask for anything to do a wedding or funeral. I consider that under the umbrella of my pastoral responsibilities. |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2397
1/19/12 9:42 pm
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| Re: Assuming they were biblically eligible ... |
Poimen |
| Truman Smith wrote: | | Poimen wrote: | | They ARE married. The clerk is misinformed. The certificate of marriage is for legal documenting purposes, and does not itself unite anyone in matrimony. It's paperwork. The covenant is what weds them, not the state, nor the church for that matter. |
I really hate to disagree here my friend but your conclusions are way off .They are not married until they obey the laws of the land . Peter tells us ,"to obey every ordiance of man ". Now the Government grants us the right to perform the ceremony . We do not have the right to proclaim them married ever without the authorization of the Government . Poimen I do not remember ever not agreeing with you until now . God Bless . T |
Not a problem brother. Thank you for disagreeing so agreeably. 
Blessings to you and yours as well friend.
_________________
Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
1/19/12 11:49 pm
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| Re: Truman Here |
Poimen |
| Truman Smith wrote: | | sonofasoldier wrote: | | They were married when they slept together. |
This statement is as wrong as any statement ever has been . Having sex without the blessings of marriage has never been the requirements of a binding marriage . I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE OR HOW SOME OF THE STATEMENTS MADE ON THIS BOARD CAN BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. As a matter of fact it is SIN .God Bless . T |
Agreed. Though this is a common thought in some Christian circles, at least as far as grounds for annulling a marriage are concerned. However, the idea that sex constitutes marriage totally neuters (ha!) the sexual sinfulness of fornication and adultery.
Somehow I suspect that is not what our fellow poster must have meant, but without clatrifcation one is left to wonder. Aye? 
_________________
Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
1/19/12 11:53 pm
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