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 Trial Board Verdict In. Report by Tom Sterbens |
doyle |
Curtis Lowe put up a post wanting to know the verdict in the Michigan Trial Board where some Romanian female members lodged accusations against a Romanian pastor who they say molested them 15 years ago when they were children.
A Romanian Trial Board had declared the pastor not-guilty but as further information came in, the COG Executive Committee decided to reopen the case.
Down in the post by Curtis, Tom Sterbens, someone who championed opening the the case back up to review the additional information that had come in, made the following report. We felt his report should get it's own heading:
THE STERBENS' REPORT:
"I have received phone calls and emails from some of the victims stating they were informed by email of the decision of the trial board. Here is a quote from the final disposition they wanted to be posted:
"REVEREND IOAN J. BUIA IS GUILTY OF EXPLICIT HETEROSEXUAL ABUSE OF MINORS."
They said this was a unanimous decision by the members of the trial board.
As a side note: The victims also communicated with me throughout the day of the trial. Whatever may have fallen through the cracks the first time around (first trial board), each of the victims shared overwhelming gratitude for, and affirmation of, an environment/atmosphere of safety, dignity, sincere concern, and justice that prevailed on Thursday.
They each made reference to David Griffis and Raymond Hodge in particular, the members of the trial board, and to the Church of God in general. They each went into great detail concerning respective moments for each of them when they sensed "Someone believing their story," and simply standing for truth.
It is a great day for righteousness, for the victims, and for the family of the Church of God. We should rejoice for the victims and be proud of the Church of God and the leadership of elders who stood in wisdom, making redemption available for everyone - the victims, as well s the accused.
Preserving the availability of grace to everyone in this kind of situation is a leadership task of righteous, objective constancy few can imagine. Tragically, it seems the accused remains firmly in the grip of deception and denial.
Next: All the victims and families were Romanian, and members of the Romanian Church of God. At one point when they were all together on speakerphone they said they were amazed with the care and concern of "American Church of God," and the safety and security they "discovered" in being part of a larger family who could bring a sense of justice to them.
You'll love this.......they said, "You know, what if we would have been just an independent Pentecostal church...nothing would have happened!?" They said it - not me...something to think about the next time that debate comes up.
Last: There are those around the fringes who have stated things such as, "You don't understand the Romanian culture," and "We have to be sensitive not to violate the sense of Romanian autonomy." Waving the fear of division, and alleged fear of lost brotherhood...as if shying-away from truth is an acceptable value.
I like what Travis Johnson said to me about this, "In matters of righteousness, culture must always kneel before the cross...we must never make the cross kneel to culture!" Wow! When the power of the cross is brought to bear on any moment, those who are looking for God will find redemption not rejection (irrespective of culture)...they will find inclusion and dignity, not subjugation and belittlement.
My suspicion is the Romanian community will respond to this with a sense of declared value that only the force of the cross of Christ can bring. The fear-mongers will have to seek another opportunity...the Church of God gospel community is intact...the cross won today!"
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Acts-celerate Owner
Posts: 6957
1/14/12 5:16 pm
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| Perception is the problem... |
Jamie Noel |
Below is a comment from the original post...
"You'll love this.......they said, "You know, what if we would have been just an independent Pentecostal church...nothing would have happened!?"
Please allow me to ask, how do you know this?
I pastor an independent pentecostal church and I can guarantee you that our board of elders would not sit by and allow this to slide.
Please, we cannot lump all churches together. There exists, and we all know it, COG's that have issues that "slide" every day. There exists all kinds of churches that have issues that slide.
Why is it perceived that independent churches have no accountability. I grew up COG and I saw plenty of times when local churches didn't have "accountability." This is getting old....let's start working together instead of pointing fingers at each other.
Respectfully,
Jamie
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Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1138
1/15/12 8:13 am
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Change Agent |
| Tom report was great news (justice prevails)! Looking forward to getting the official COG report. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
1/15/12 11:30 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
This is good news Doyle.
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Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
1/15/12 1:47 pm
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| Relax Jamie... |
Grandpa Cleland |
take a step back and get you a refill of starbucks from the foyer of the church... 
He wasn't talking about you... |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 627
1/15/12 10:28 pm
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| Re: Perception is the problem... |
Clint Wills |
| Jamie Noel wrote: | Below is a comment from the original post...
"You'll love this.......they said, "You know, what if we would have been just an independent Pentecostal church...nothing would have happened!?"
Please allow me to ask, how do you know this?
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I don't think Tom is saying that he does know this - witnessed by his next few words - "They said it - not me".
This was the perception of the victims. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5161
1/16/12 2:58 pm
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| Hey fellas.... |
Jamie Noel |
I'm not worked up over it....and I never thought Tom felt this way....
It just amazes me how ignorant uninformed people can be. That's why I labeled my post, Perception is the problem.
When our perception becomes reality, we get all mixed up.
Thanks, Grandpa....but I don't like Starbucks.
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1/18/12 11:46 am
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Travis Johnson |
| In situations like this, there is no doubt that being a part of a larger, accountable organization is beneficial on a number of levels. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
1/18/12 11:57 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | In situations like this, there is no doubt that being a part of a larger, accountable organization is beneficial on a number of levels. |
Agreed.
Whatever the drawbacks of an "organization" - this is not one of them - this is one of the benefits.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
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1/18/12 2:04 pm
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| Elaborate... |
Jamie Noel |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | In situations like this, there is no doubt that being a part of a larger, accountable organization is beneficial on a number of levels. |
What clarification or elaboration could you bring on this topic? If a similar situation would occur in my local church, why would being in the COG be better for the church/victims than if not a part?
Jamie
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1/18/12 2:43 pm
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| Re: Elaborate... |
youngbishop81 |
| Jamie Noel wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | In situations like this, there is no doubt that being a part of a larger, accountable organization is beneficial on a number of levels. |
What clarification or elaboration could you bring on this topic? If a similar situation would occur in my local church, why would being in the COG be better for the church/victims than if not a part?
Jamie |
Jamie,
For real get over yourself already...... |
Friendly Face
Posts: 470
1/18/12 2:51 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
For a locally autonomous church with a bona fide board in place not just made up of "yes" men, it would probably be handled similarly.
However, many independent churches (especially Pentecostal and charismatic ones) are set up as "ministries" which, if they have a board at all, is made up primarily of family members and other hand-picked supporters of the senior pastor/CEO. Oftentimes the property of independent churches is owned outright by the pastor and/or his family. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
1/18/12 3:00 pm
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| Re: Elaborate... |
Travis Johnson |
| Jamie Noel wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | In situations like this, there is no doubt that being a part of a larger, accountable organization is beneficial on a number of levels. |
What clarification or elaboration could you bring on this topic? If a similar situation would occur in my local church, why would being in the COG be better for the church/victims than if not a part?
Jamie |
Jamie,
It isn't that your church wouldn't handle it well. I'm quite sure it would. And, generally, the only people that can be held accountable for their actions are people who WANT to be held accountable.
Clearly that isn't the case with Buia (a former COG member and pastor). He was in his church on the front row Sunday AM in violation of the COG trial board ruling and in defiance to the GA and the PB. That won't be permitted for long.
But, a rogue joker in an unaccountable independent church can potentially pocket the entire asset of the church with no recourse. So, it isn't all independent churches as you clearly demonstrate. A church that has voluntarily submitted itself in covenant with a good fellowship with good accountability is much more protected.
Sure there are things I wish we'd tweak up...or even loosen up a lot. But, the above mentioned rationale coupled with the fact that we generally have very good, godly men in leadership both locally and institutionally is one of the reasons I really love being a part of the COG. I don't won't to spend my life building a decent, Christ-honoring community of faith only to have some jack-leg pilfer after I'm gone. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
1/18/12 3:56 pm
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| Re: Hey fellas.... |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Jamie Noel wrote: | I'm not worked up over it....and I never thought Tom felt this way....
It just amazes me how ignorant uninformed people can be. |
This is pathetic Jamie.
This thread is not the place to air continued grievances with the COG.
Who exactly were you calling ignorant here?
Very sad reflection on you - and your church with this post.
You ought to remove your comments and let this thread be the pat on the back for a job well done it was intended to be.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
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1/18/12 4:54 pm
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| Re: Trial Board Verdict In. Report by Tom Sterbens |
bradfreeman |
| doyle wrote: | | You'll love this.......they said, "You know, what if we would have been just an independent Pentecostal church...nothing would have happened!?" They said it - not me...something to think about the next time that debate comes up. |
I don't really "love" this comment. Why should we, when we finally do something right, "love" expressing a feeling of superiority to someone else? Here is what we need to "think about the next time that debate comes up":
"We" are not just the COG, "we" are the independent churches too.
It's not "us vs. them" or "we are better than them".
Before our chests swell too big we should also remember that the superior COG didn't do too well the first time it handled this matter.
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Last edited by bradfreeman on 1/19/12 8:03 am; edited 2 times in total |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
1/19/12 7:32 am
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bradfreeman |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | In situations like this, there is no doubt that being a part of a larger, accountable organization is beneficial on a number of levels. |
I am pleased that these ladies feel vindicated. I'm glad the organization made the decision it made. With respect, however, I don't believe this situation leaves "no doubt" about the benefits of being part of an organization in situations like this. I do think it sheds light on several things:
Even a large religious organization can be pressured by the press and public opinion;
Large religious organizations sometimes make the wrong decisions in the interest of self-preservation and image-management;
Large organizations are sometimes pressured into ultimately making the right decisions in the interest of self-preservation;
Large organizations sometimes face additional obstacles to true accountability and need to evaluate how these obstacles influence our decision-making;
I don't see how the image of the organization can benefit from (a) not handling the situation correctly the first time, (b) being scalded in the press and (c) revisiting the issue and changing field the second time. The public will likely be as suspicious, judgmental and critical of us in this situation as we often are in our assessment of the public and other ministers...we will likely reap what we have sown.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
1/19/12 7:53 am
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| Re: Hey fellas.... |
bradfreeman |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | You ought to remove your comments and let this thread be the pat on the back for a job well done it was intended to be. |
I don't know what the thread was "intended" to be, but I am glad we finally appear to have done the right thing by these victims. I am also relieved that these ladies appear to feel vindicated. However, I don't share your opinion that this was a "job well done". The situation was a black-eye for the COG and the church in general. Our handling of it deserves about a "D+"...nearly a total failure. Some would say we failed and deserve an "F" for not handling it right the first time.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
1/19/12 8:00 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
You nattering nabobs of negativism have said your peace.
I hope you feel better.
We get it -
COG = bad
organization = bad
independent churches = superior in every way
Have a magical day!
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
1/19/12 8:24 am
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bradfreeman |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | You nattering nabobs of negativism have said your peace.
I hope you feel better.
We get it -
COG = bad
organization = bad
independent churches = superior in every way
Have a magical day! |
As an ordained bishop in the COG, I want our organization to grow, improve and change for the better. Slathering icing on a mud pie and calling it a tasty treat isn't going to help. The COG does wonderful things every day...this just isn't one of our jobs well done.
I enjoyed you pulling out the old quote "nattering nabobs of negativism". I'll add nabob to my list of labels. 
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
1/19/12 8:59 am
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