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My son's class was asked, "Is it okay to drink?"
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Post My son's class was asked, "Is it okay to drink?" roughridercog
In a class of twenty something eighth graders at a Christian school the teacher asked them, "Is drinking wrong or is it okay?"

Twenty something students from Southern Baptist, mainline Pentecostal, Charismatic, and a small cross section of others tallied the results.

Out of twenty something students only four made the stand that drinking was wrong. I was proud that my son was one of them. Out of that cross section that said it was wrong was one COG, one AOG, and two baptist.

The remainder of the class was predominantly AOG, Southern Baptist, and Charismatic.

I talked with my son and told him how proud that I was that he'd made a stand. But I was also inwardly shocked at how the spirit of worldliness is creeping into organizations that used to take such a strong stand.

Just thought it was an interesting observation.
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3/20/06 8:20 am


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Post Memory03
the rest of them must be Acts posters. I am not surprised. Look at the "Preachers" om this board who think it is "OK" to be a social drinker. One of the big shots wife just recently got a DUI. Do you think for one minute that he didn't know and condone her drinking? You won't ever convince me that he didn't/doesn't. So if their Pastors/Parents are preaching/being preached that garbage, how should they be expected to respond? Within the next ten years you will see a bunch of Charismatic drunks. Every Pentecostal Church will need an "AA" program just to deal with the fall out.
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Post simplysouthern
It is amazing at how many pastors on this board and not on this board have no problem with the whole social drinking thing. It is very sad that one of the prominent pastors in the COG's wife got a DUI. More disappointing is that her husband condones her social drinking. Wonder how it would be if she had killed herself or some innocent person while she was intoxicated? You would think he would feel differently being that a drunk driver took the life of his very best friend (Paul Dana Walker) years ago. Nothing good comes from alcohol. Good for the son of the previous post for speaking up. Newbie
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3/20/06 9:53 am


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Post roughridercog
simplysouthern wrote:
It is amazing at how many pastors on this board and not on this board have no problem with the whole social drinking thing. It is very sad that one of the prominent pastors in the COG's wife got a DUI. More disappointing is that her husband condones her social drinking. Wonder how it would be if she had killed herself or some innocent person while she was intoxicated? You would think he would feel differently being that a drunk driver took the life of his very best friend (Paul Dana Walker) years ago. Nothing good comes from alcohol. Good for the son of the previous post for speaking up.


My son has no problem speaking up. Laughing

He's set his class on his ear a few times. For example:

During grade school, his class had as their class hero of the month Dr. Martin L King. He asked the teacher, "This is a Christian school. Why are we honoring a man who was an adulterer?" Needless to say, soon the class was asking him, "Did he cheat on his wife?" The teacher was forced to admit that there was overwhelming evidence that he did.

The constant debate over unconditional eternal security goes on once in a while. One boy was acting rather mean to him and in an unchristian manner, and my son said, "You'd better get right with God. You must be backslid."
The boy said, "You can't backslide. Once you're saved it's good for life. If you backslide, you weren't saved to begin with."
Of course my son returned, "Then I guess you weren't saved to begin with. Wouldn't you like to be?"

I tell him that his mouth is an awesome power. It must be used for good and never for evil. Laughing
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Post stp89
roughridercog wrote:

The constant debate over unconditional eternal security goes on once in a while.


This is why my kid is in public school in my area. The only Christian schools near me are Independent or Southern Baptist and they are well known for making Pentecostals feel like the scum of the earth. One is very liberal and makes fun of speaking in tongues (saying it's "not of God") and the other is very legalistic and won't allow the girls to wear any pants...dresses only... of course the boys don't have a problem with that rule Wink

Roughrider I praise God that your son takes a stand for truth. We need more young men like him in the church.
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3/20/06 10:10 am


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Post How would Paul have voted? His disciple
If Paul was in his class how would he have voted? After all, he did not condemn drinking, only drunkenness? Wonder why Paul didn't just say, "don't drink alcohol?". Shame on him for not having the insight of the COG!
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Post notwanghere
First I want to commend Rough's son and Rough! "Train up a child in the way they should go, and when they are old, they will not depart from it."

I do wish to add my two cents, on this - old - topic. Again.

I do not believe the Bible condemns the consumption of alcohol in moderation. I do believe the instruction that "Elders are not to be given to wine", compared with the admonition "Deacons are not to be given to much wine", identifies a difference in office, and thus responsibilities.

It is this coupled with my commitment to my denomination, and it's position which prohibits me from wine drinking.

The social evil of alcohol also motivates me to be against alcohol. This is why I believe in the need for sanctification so the want to's change.
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3/20/06 4:15 pm


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Post Re: My son's class was asked, "Is it okay to drink?&quo Link
Rough Rider

Don't look down on the other kids. They might have come to their conclusions because they had a better understanding of scripture on the issue than your son. Of course, your son may have a good understanding of the issue and take the fact that underage drinking is illegal into account as well.
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3/21/06 7:33 am


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Post shaunbwilson
stp89 wrote:
...they are well known for making Pentecostals feel like the scum of the earth.


Just remind them that Paul was a Pentacostal! 1 Cor 4:13
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3/21/06 10:32 am


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Post Re: My son's class was asked, "Is it okay to drink?& old time clergyman
Link wrote:
Rough Rider

Don't look down on the other kids. They might have come to their conclusions because they had a better understanding of scripture on the issue than your son. Of course, your son may have a good understanding of the issue and take the fact that underage drinking is illegal into account as well.


Hey now son, that boy has a better understandin of the word than a lot of these liberals who think that a little drink now and then aint gonna hurt you.
Seems to me like all the church wants to do is see how much it can get by with and still claim to be Christians. That's wrong.

Praise God for a man who taught his son right and for the boy who listened to the man of God.

Mark my words fellas, if the church keeps going the way its a going then sooner or later all of the glory if God is gonna depart. All that will be left is a man made feel good anything goes religion that don't convict sin. Instead it embraces us and makes it respectable.

The idea of Christians drinking is just the first step.
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3/21/06 1:01 pm


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Post Re: My son's class was asked, "Is it okay to drink?& Link
old time clergyman

The problem with your post is the underlying assumption that drinking alcohol is wrong. Jesus drank wine. He gave the apostles wine (apparently) and told them to drink of the cup to remember him. This was practiced throughout the churches. You can't be holier than Jesus. Obeying Jesus is not sin. (What I mean is partaking of the Lord's Supper rightly is not a sin.)

The Bible warns against drinking too much. It does not outlaw drinking. Middle easterners at that time regularly drank wine as a part of their diet.
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3/21/06 7:22 pm


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Post The Bible does not condone consumption of alcohol Gradofcogts
The Scriptures in a couple places talk about wine but people have run wild with this and stretched it to mean consumption of alcohol.

First of all the debate is about what wine Paul or any NT writer was discussing but "no where does the Bible condone the "consumption of alcohol. That is a man made perversion of the wine drinking issue.

The one drink of wine with your supper has turned into alcohol consumption in general................

and also it will lead to drunkenness which will lead to big leaping flames in a bad place.
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3/21/06 8:19 pm


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Post Re: My son's class was asked, "Is it okay to drink?& old time clergyman
Link wrote:
old time clergyman

The problem with your post is the underlying assumption that drinking alcohol is wrong. Jesus drank wine. He gave the apostles wine (apparently) and told them to drink of the cup to remember him. This was practiced throughout the churches. You can't be holier than Jesus. Obeying Jesus is not sin. (What I mean is partaking of the Lord's Supper rightly is not a sin.)

The Bible warns against drinking too much. It does not outlaw drinking. Middle easterners at that time regularly drank wine as a part of their diet.


Mark my words son, these liberal ideas are gonna cause you to lose out and that would be a shame. Its bout time we got back to the old paths cause these new ones are a leading the church to hell. I respect the man who taught his son that drinkin is a sin. Its a mocker and it will destroy homes. When the church starts sinnin in moderation, the glory of God is gonna depart.
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3/21/06 8:28 pm


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Post Re: The Bible does not condone consumption of alcohol His disciple
Gradofcogts wrote:
The Scriptures in a couple places talk about wine but people have run wild with this and stretched it to mean consumption of alcohol.

First of all the debate is about what wine Paul or any NT writer was discussing but "no where does the Bible condone the "consumption of alcohol. That is a man made perversion of the wine drinking issue.

The one drink of wine with your supper has turned into alcohol consumption in general................

and also it will lead to drunkenness which will lead to big leaping flames in a bad place.



I notice you argument is missing something. Like scripture. Why does Paul not outright forbid drinking at all. Why say drunkenness if any and all alcohol was forbidden. Paul states church leaders should not be given to "much wine". Why didn't he just say "wine" if it were forbidden. Just because a group of men one hundred or so years ago thought it wise to abstain from all alcohol (and I agree) does not make it a sin to do consume alcohol.

The bible does not forbid drinking. The word warns against it. The Word says it is a mocker. But it does not forbid it so we should not forbid it either. Who are we to add to the word? The Word warns against accumulating wealth and the love of money. It says you can't serve both God and money. It says it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into heaven. Why is it I don't hear COG people warning against this? We blatantly desire to get our "blessing" and walk in "prosperity" even though the bible says to store our treasure in Heaven. We see how close we can get to gluttony without crossing the line and that is of no concern?

Perhaps you could explain why we must completely avoid alcohol because of possible abuse but have no similar concern over money.
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Post Re: My son's class was asked, "Is it okay to drink?& Memory03
Link wrote:
old time clergyman

The problem with your post is the underlying assumption that drinking alcohol is wrong. Jesus drank wine. He gave the apostles wine (apparently) and told them to drink of the cup to remember him. This was practiced throughout the churches. You can't be holier than Jesus. Obeying Jesus is not sin. (What I mean is partaking of the Lord's Supper rightly is not a sin.)

The Bible warns against drinking too much. It does not outlaw drinking. Middle easterners at that time regularly drank wine as a part of their diet.



PROVE that Jesus drank fermented wine...the word wine was use for three things. 1) medicine for the stomachs sake..2) as a juice...3) as a strong drink... Prove which one Jesus partook of!!!
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Post Re: My son's class was asked, "Is it okay to drink?& Full Tilt Whitey
Memory03 wrote:
Link wrote:
old time clergyman

The problem with your post is the underlying assumption that drinking alcohol is wrong. Jesus drank wine. He gave the apostles wine (apparently) and told them to drink of the cup to remember him. This was practiced throughout the churches. You can't be holier than Jesus. Obeying Jesus is not sin. (What I mean is partaking of the Lord's Supper rightly is not a sin.)

The Bible warns against drinking too much. It does not outlaw drinking. Middle easterners at that time regularly drank wine as a part of their diet.



PROVE that Jesus drank fermented wine...the word wine was use for three things. 1) medicine for the stomachs sake..2) as a juice...3) as a strong drink... Prove which one Jesus partook of!!!


There was no Welch's back 2000 years ago. The chance that anyone was able to get a freshly squeezed cup of grape juice is probably about the same odds as having a glass of water with a few cubes of ice in it. Don't be ridiculous Mem. You cannot prove that He did not drink fermented wine.
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Post Re: My son's class was asked, "Is it okay to drink?& Land of Middle Girth
Full Tilt Whitey wrote:
Memory03 wrote:
Link wrote:
old time clergyman

The problem with your post is the underlying assumption that drinking alcohol is wrong. Jesus drank wine. He gave the apostles wine (apparently) and told them to drink of the cup to remember him. This was practiced throughout the churches. You can't be holier than Jesus. Obeying Jesus is not sin. (What I mean is partaking of the Lord's Supper rightly is not a sin.)

The Bible warns against drinking too much. It does not outlaw drinking. Middle easterners at that time regularly drank wine as a part of their diet.



PROVE that Jesus drank fermented wine...the word wine was use for three things. 1) medicine for the stomachs sake..2) as a juice...3) as a strong drink... Prove which one Jesus partook of!!!


There was no Welch's back 2000 years ago. The chance that anyone was able to get a freshly squeezed cup of grape juice is probably about the same odds as having a glass of water with a few cubes of ice in it. Don't be ridiculous Mem. You cannot prove that He did not drink fermented wine.


Would the stomach cure and fermented wine be in the same catagory? Probably.

Besides, I still say that Jesus turning water to wine is a great proof of creationism since there is a witness of Him creating something that is old, as in finely aged wine. But alas, I am but an ignorant layman.
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Post Here we go again Porpoise Driven Neptune
This subject comes up again and again on this board.

Wine (the alcoholic variety) was an integral part of the culture in which Jesus lived. Yet drunkenness was exremely rare - with drunks ostracized by the rest of society.

For some reasons there are certain cultures where the use of alcohol often results in drunkenness (eg North America, Russia, Australia, Ireland, UK, Northern Europe). However, many other cultures have continued to use alcohol with very little ensuing social problems or disorder.

Sadly this is now changing as TV, popular music & movies export US culture around the world. Now cultures, such as France, which have a long history of responsible use of alcohol, are facing massive rises in teenage alcoholism and public drunkenness.

The CoG's practical commitment concerning abstaining from alcohol used to be seen by many of our European members as a quaint Southern US cultural quirk, but one we had to conform to as one of the conditions of being part of the Church of God. (Similar to the hilarious rule at one of our Bible Schools that male & female students have to use the swimming pool on separate days). However, the Americanization of European culture means more Europeans are seeing abstinence from alcohol as a necessary component of holy living in their present cultural context.

My point is that abstinence from alcohol is not commanded, or even encouraged, in Scripture or in early church history. However, for most of us there are compelling cultural reasons why we should abstain. Before I draw a howl of protest, let me add that we allow cultural, rather than biblical considerations, to dictate much of our behaviour.

The kind of music we use in church, the dress code for our preachers & musicians, even the food we eat, are determined by our culture. Believers in other cultures use weird worship music, have pastors who preach in kilts, and eat cats for breakfast. Yet most of these things would be deemed unacceptable behaviour for a pastor in Dayton,TN.

Why get all bent out of shape over the fact that drinking alcohol has undesirable connotations in the cultures in which most of us live and minister? On the other hand, why try to twist Scripture to try to support something that is obviously not Scriptural - the nonsensical notion that Jesus and His disciples substituted non-alcoholic grape juice for the wine that would have been served in every home and party that they visited?
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Post Land of Middle Girth
Quote:
Sadly this is now changing as TV, popular music & movies export US culture around the world. Now cultures, such as France, which have a long history of responsible use of alcohol, are facing massive rises in teenage alcoholism and public drunkenness.



Could the cause of this be that the youth of France are coming to the realization that they are, in fact, French and can not possibly stomach the idea leading to utilizing Paul's recommendation for Timothy to "take a little wine," and when the little wine does nothing for the nausea they continue until they have achieved drunkenness? Shocked


Of course I am joking. Why would the french youth be upset? I mean, the french have done amazing things with cheese and mold.
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Post Re: Here we go again notwanghere
Porpoise Driven Neptune wrote:
This subject comes up again and again on this board.

Wine (the alcoholic variety) was an integral part of the culture in which Jesus lived. Yet drunkenness was exremely rare - with drunks ostracized by the rest of society.

For some reasons there are certain cultures where the use of alcohol often results in drunkenness (eg North America, Russia, Australia, Ireland, UK, Northern Europe). However, many other cultures have continued to use alcohol with very little ensuing social problems or disorder.

Sadly this is now changing as TV, popular music & movies export US culture around the world. Now cultures, such as France, which have a long history of responsible use of alcohol, are facing massive rises in teenage alcoholism and public drunkenness.

The CoG's practical commitment concerning abstaining from alcohol used to be seen by many of our European members as a quaint Southern US cultural quirk, but one we had to conform to as one of the conditions of being part of the Church of God. (Similar to the hilarious rule at one of our Bible Schools that male & female students have to use the swimming pool on separate days). However, the Americanization of European culture means more Europeans are seeing abstinence from alcohol as a necessary component of holy living in their present cultural context.

My point is that abstinence from alcohol is not commanded, or even encouraged, in Scripture or in early church history. However, for most of us there are compelling cultural reasons why we should abstain. Before I draw a howl of protest, let me add that we allow cultural, rather than biblical considerations, to dictate much of our behaviour.

The kind of music we use in church, the dress code for our preachers & musicians, even the food we eat, are determined by our culture. Believers in other cultures use weird worship music, have pastors who preach in kilts, and eat cats for breakfast. Yet most of these things would be deemed unacceptable behaviour for a pastor in Dayton,TN.

Why get all bent out of shape over the fact that drinking alcohol has undesirable connotations in the cultures in which most of us live and minister? On the other hand, why try to twist Scripture to try to support something that is obviously not Scriptural - the nonsensical notion that Jesus and His disciples substituted non-alcoholic grape juice for the wine that would have been served in every home and party that they visited?


Now THAT is a great post!!
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