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I think it is an extreme... |
prefontaine |
But to me, if you are going to argue against women pastors, should you use 1 Timothy 2:12? This verse says that Paul does not allow women to have authority over men...it also says that they must be silent, which is the extreme part. I don't have any issue with women being in leadership in a church...MOMs, obviously women's ministries, shoot-my wife is a youth pastor. However, we are careful to not let the women in leadership take over...it is often easier for guys to let women do all the thinking and work, and we just do what we NEED to do, when maybe we need to stand up and be the men of God that we are supposed to be. It drives me nuts at our church that men's groups have a hard time get 6-8 guys out to a study...we had up to 16 for one, but that was an extreme. At the same time, the women will have 20 going to a couple of different groups. Our wives are becoming closer to God than we are. Whether they are called or not, we are still accountable for our households. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5103 4/19/07 4:25 pm
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Darrell Garrett |
Yes. How's that for an answer? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5330 4/19/07 4:47 pm
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My Pastor is a Woman |
kyeagle |
And has been for 4 years come July. Our Pastor relies on her husband and several men for support.
We run over 120 in Morning Worship. Our Youth Group is growing in number and in Spirituality. We have purchased a Church. We have purchased a store building next door and converted it to a Youth Center. We're in the process of building a Family Life Center.
I believe our church is doing very well for a Pastor that may not be ordained? |
Friendly Face Posts: 409 4/19/07 5:11 pm
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Re: My Pastor is a Woman |
Poimen |
kyeagle wrote: | And has been for 4 years come July. Our Pastor relies on her husband and several men for support.
We run over 120 in Morning Worship. Our Youth Group is growing in number and in Spirituality. We have purchased a Church. We have purchased a store building next door and converted it to a Youth Center. We're in the process of building a Family Life Center.
I believe our church is doing very well for a Pastor that may not be ordained? |
Friend,
I rejoice in the material blessings on your church knowing that such has created opportunities to further the gospel and edify believers. I rejoice in that Christ is preached.
Nevertheless, again, here is an example of looking to current practice and perceived commendation or blessing (i.e. growth and property) as the rule for determining if something is or is not the will of God. I prefer to let the Bible, especially the NT, be the ultimate rule of faith and practice -- even if it makes me appear outdated and backwards to current cultural and social philosophies. _________________ Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5657 4/19/07 6:50 pm
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SkyPilot |
Quote: | Look at Titus 1:7-9 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. |
Mike, this Scripture is one of those that is perfect for this discussion. Although it really says nothing about females in this. It simply uses the male pronoun. I have argued on many occasions that the teachings about the shepherd role in the NT is a reflection of the culture at the time. I think the writers were speaking as people of the 1st Century where women were not allowed to be in leadership roles. In fact this passage has another phrase that could lead to serious misinterpretation if read strictly by people who live in the 21st Century. "a lover of good men". Does this phrase bring a connotation that pastors must be attracted to the same gender.
Of course not. But that conclusion could be drawn unless we view the whole context of the passage.
Quote: | I do not personally have a problem with Female ministers, but I do not think they should be Ordained Bishops. Nothing against women, but God laid it out for us in his word, 1 Timothy 3:2- A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE. Women definitely have a say, but they should not be over the man of God. If we allow this then we have gone against the word of God. |
This passage carries the same argument that the previous passage does. In fact, is there anything but an absolute literal reading of text that can bring us to that conclusion. There are parts of the Bible that must be read as perfectly literal. There are parts that should be read metaphorical. And there are passages that ,must be read within their context, otherwise we would be "girding up our loins" and other things that do not make sense in this day and age.
When are we going to grown up and quit using Scripture to justify and rationalize our own prejudices. I remember the Bible being used to justify racial hatred and bigotry against African-Americans. _________________ Pax,
Skypilot |
Acts-celerater Posts: 849 4/19/07 6:54 pm
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I think we'll see more women pastors... |
roughridercog |
when we start allowing COG ministers to pastor outside the organization. _________________ Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod Posts: 25305 4/19/07 7:52 pm
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Rev.Mike Bassemier |
SkyPilot wrote: | Quote: | Look at Titus 1:7-9 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. |
Mike, this Scripture is one of those that is perfect for this discussion. Although it really says nothing about females in this. It simply uses the male pronoun. I have argued on many occasions that the teachings about the shepherd role in the NT is a reflection of the culture at the time. I think the writers were speaking as people of the 1st Century where women were not allowed to be in leadership roles. In fact this passage has another phrase that could lead to serious misinterpretation if read strictly by people who live in the 21st Century. "a lover of good men". Does this phrase bring a connotation that pastors must be attracted to the same gender.
Of course not. But that conclusion could be drawn unless we view the whole context of the passage.
Quote: | I do not personally have a problem with Female ministers, but I do not think they should be Ordained Bishops. Nothing against women, but God laid it out for us in his word, 1 Timothy 3:2- A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE. Women definitely have a say, but they should not be over the man of God. If we allow this then we have gone against the word of God. |
This passage carries the same argument that the previous passage does. In fact, is there anything but an absolute literal reading of text that can bring us to that conclusion. There are parts of the Bible that must be read as perfectly literal. There are parts that should be read metaphorical. And there are passages that ,must be read within their context, otherwise we would be "girding up our loins" and other things that do not make sense in this day and age.
When are we going to grown up and quit using Scripture to justify and rationalize our own prejudices. I remember the Bible being used to justify racial hatred and bigotry against African-Americans. |
Sky
You asked " When are we going to quit using scripture to justify and rationalize our own prejudices?
For one I am not prejudice against women preachers or pastors. A woman can do what ever she desires to do and a church can accept her as a pastor if they want. I would be foolish to say that women ministers are out of God's will. Our culture accepts whatever the going trend is and pretty much throws out the word of God. I have heard many good women minister the word but I personally would not set under a woman as my pastor. |
Acts-celerater Posts: 671 4/19/07 8:18 pm
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SkyPilot |
Mike wrote:
Quote: | Sky
You asked " When are we going to quit using scripture to justify and rationalize our own prejudices?
For one I am not prejudice against women preachers or pastors. A woman can do what ever she desires to do and a church can accept her as a pastor if they want. I would be foolish to say that women ministers are out of God's will. Our culture accepts whatever the going trend is and pretty much throws out the word of God. I have heard many good women minister the word but I personally would not set under a woman as my pastor. |
Mike, the fact that you would not sit under a female pastor is evidence of a prejudice. This does not mean you are mean just that you have a serious prerogative. A bias in other words. We all have them and they are neither bad nor wrong unless they prevent another person from achieving a goal or a calling. Or if they are used to abuse another or label them inferior. I do not think you did wither in your post.
I do think you use Scripture to justify your bias and that is OK. _________________ Pax,
Skypilot |
Acts-celerater Posts: 849 4/19/07 8:34 pm
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singasong |
lagrangesinging wrote: | 1 Timothy 3:2- A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE. Women definitely have a say, but they should not be over the man of God. If we allow this then we have gone against the word of God. |
So you think that SINGLE MEN cannot pastor either?? |
Friendly Face Posts: 321 4/19/07 9:25 pm
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Darrell Garrett |
singasong wrote: | lagrangesinging wrote: | 1 Timothy 3:2- A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE. Women definitely have a say, but they should not be over the man of God. If we allow this then we have gone against the word of God. |
So you think that SINGLE MEN cannot pastor either?? |
Hey singasong, don't go confusing the issue with such destractions!
Good point! |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5330 4/19/07 9:59 pm
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Re: No...Here's What The Scripture Says.... |
Louis Morgan |
Rev.Mike Bassemier wrote: | But a woman's place is not to pastor a church. A woman is NOT to USURP authority over the man. This is a divine violation of God's word, but many do it it complete disregard of God's word.Also, you will NOT find any where in the scripture's were God used a woman to PASTOR a church. |
I don't have the time to get into this at the moment, but this is a subject that I have spent time studying. I have to disagree with you on this one Bro. Mike. I really wish I had time to discuss this right now, but it will have to wait until later.
However, I think every person should read this book:
_________________ growing in grace
http://www.louismorgan.info
http://morganonmission.blogspot.com |
Acts-celerater Posts: 934 4/19/07 10:05 pm
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heislord54 |
This is not popular however a women does not have a right to have a position over a man. If you read the word you will find that Jesus ordained a women to evangelize and speak the message as all are called to do. However you can find no N.T. scripture where a women is doing any of the business of the church. As a matter of fact you find very few writings about women at all. The moment the church gets back to the true order of God then God will bless his church and the gates of hell will not prevail. When Jesus said in Matthew 16 I will build my church he was talking about his order of the kingdom. When a women is the pastor Jesus is not the builder of the church. Unless that women has a strong man husband to do the business of the church it would never work. That women will never survive. I find most women pastors end up jumping around alot. I know very few that have long term successful pastorate. Now before you start naming off names I"m sure there are some who do. However I'm sure the devil himself could open up a church and find people and grow it. However there will come a day when man will not ignore sound doctrine. Its wrong and no book you quote or old testament story you try to justify will make it any more right.
By the way this saying that says well women pastor because men hasn't stood up. That is bull. Either God work is true or it is not. If a man doesn't step up God will not change his word for anyone. Before God would change he wouldn't have a church. I believe there are many churches going astray with women pastors that do the business of the church. I'm sure your can do it, I'm sure your good enough. However I'm sure some of you could play football too however I dare you go stand next a 300 pnd man and get hit once. There is just some places a wonderful women has no place to be because they will get destroyed in it.
Kari if your called to preach the word, minister to kids, the praise God do it. However if you say your called to pastor a church then I very much will question your calling and if you heard from God. |
Friendly Face Posts: 223 4/19/07 10:40 pm
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KariJay |
heislord54 wrote: | This is not popular however a women does not have a right to have a position over a man. If you read the word you will find that Jesus ordained a women to evangelize and speak the message as all are called to do. However you can find no N.T. scripture where a women is doing any of the business of the church. As a matter of fact you find very few writings about women at all. The moment the church gets back to the true order of God then God will bless his church and the gates of hell will not prevail. When Jesus said in Matthew 16 I will build my church he was talking about his order of the kingdom. When a women is the pastor Jesus is not the builder of the church. Unless that women has a strong man husband to do the business of the church it would never work. That women will never survive. I find most women pastors end up jumping around alot. I know very few that have long term successful pastorate. Now before you start naming off names I"m sure there are some who do. However I'm sure the devil himself could open up a church and find people and grow it. However there will come a day when man will not ignore sound doctrine. Its wrong and no book you quote or old testament story you try to justify will make it any more right.
By the way this saying that says well women pastor because men hasn't stood up. That is bull. Either God work is true or it is not. If a man doesn't step up God will not change his word for anyone. Before God would change he wouldn't have a church. I believe there are many churches going astray with women pastors that do the business of the church. I'm sure your can do it, I'm sure your good enough. However I'm sure some of you could play football too however I dare you go stand next a 300 pnd man and get hit once. There is just some places a wonderful women has no place to be because they will get destroyed in it.
Kari if your called to preach the word, minister to kids, the praise God do it. However if you say your called to pastor a church then I very much will question your calling and if you heard from God. |
Luckily, you are not God. You may question my calling at anytime but that still won't make a hill of beans difference to me. Because (like I said) you aren't God. I never said I felt called to pastor a church. I feel led to fill more of an evangelist role than a pastor's role. But if a woman feels led to be a senior pastor of a church...then go for it. _________________ www.twitter.com/karijay
www.karilife.com
Living Life...Learning Life...Loving Life... |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4825 4/19/07 10:45 pm
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Re: Should women be pastors? |
Memory03 |
COGCharlie wrote: | Just curious. I have an opinion, but what say you? |
should men have babies _________________ Be Blessed!
Memory03
8233 post at the original Acts Board...
Real Men get their haircut in a Barber Shop... The rest go to beauty parlors... |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 21953 4/19/07 10:52 pm
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Re: Should women be pastors? |
roughridercog |
Memory03 wrote: | COGCharlie wrote: | Just curious. I have an opinion, but what say you? |
should men have babies |
Even if I could, I wouldn't. It would ruin my figure. _________________ Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod Posts: 25305 4/19/07 10:54 pm
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heislord54 |
KariJay wrote: | heislord54 wrote: | This is not popular however a women does not have a right to have a position over a man. If you read the word you will find that Jesus ordained a women to evangelize and speak the message as all are called to do. However you can find no N.T. scripture where a women is doing any of the business of the church. As a matter of fact you find very few writings about women at all. The moment the church gets back to the true order of God then God will bless his church and the gates of hell will not prevail. When Jesus said in Matthew 16 I will build my church he was talking about his order of the kingdom. When a women is the pastor Jesus is not the builder of the church. Unless that women has a strong man husband to do the business of the church it would never work. That women will never survive. I find most women pastors end up jumping around alot. I know very few that have long term successful pastorate. Now before you start naming off names I"m sure there are some who do. However I'm sure the devil himself could open up a church and find people and grow it. However there will come a day when man will not ignore sound doctrine. Its wrong and no book you quote or old testament story you try to justify will make it any more right.
By the way this saying that says well women pastor because men hasn't stood up. That is bull. Either God work is true or it is not. If a man doesn't step up God will not change his word for anyone. Before God would change he wouldn't have a church. I believe there are many churches going astray with women pastors that do the business of the church. I'm sure your can do it, I'm sure your good enough. However I'm sure some of you could play football too however I dare you go stand next a 300 pnd man and get hit once. There is just some places a wonderful women has no place to be because they will get destroyed in it.
Kari if your called to preach the word, minister to kids, the praise God do it. However if you say your called to pastor a church then I very much will question your calling and if you heard from God. |
Luckily, you are not God. You may question my calling at anytime but that still won't make a hill of beans difference to me. Because (like I said) you aren't God. I never said I felt called to pastor a church. I feel led to fill more of an evangelist role than a pastor's role. But if a woman feels led to be a senior pastor of a church...then go for it. |
If you wanted to preach in my church I might let you until you had to say let them be pastors. Not in the word of God, it doesn't work. Thinking you can do it and actually being called do it is two different things. I believe you should evangelize or be a youth pastor as long as there is a male pastor to overview and run the business of it. Stick to the word and then God will bless your ministry. |
Friendly Face Posts: 223 4/19/07 11:03 pm
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Pay no attention Karijay |
roughridercog |
heislord54 wrote: | KariJay wrote: | heislord54 wrote: | This is not popular however a women does not have a right to have a position over a man. If you read the word you will find that Jesus ordained a women to evangelize and speak the message as all are called to do. However you can find no N.T. scripture where a women is doing any of the business of the church. As a matter of fact you find very few writings about women at all. The moment the church gets back to the true order of God then God will bless his church and the gates of hell will not prevail. When Jesus said in Matthew 16 I will build my church he was talking about his order of the kingdom. When a women is the pastor Jesus is not the builder of the church. Unless that women has a strong man husband to do the business of the church it would never work. That women will never survive. I find most women pastors end up jumping around alot. I know very few that have long term successful pastorate. Now before you start naming off names I"m sure there are some who do. However I'm sure the devil himself could open up a church and find people and grow it. However there will come a day when man will not ignore sound doctrine. Its wrong and no book you quote or old testament story you try to justify will make it any more right.
By the way this saying that says well women pastor because men hasn't stood up. That is bull. Either God work is true or it is not. If a man doesn't step up God will not change his word for anyone. Before God would change he wouldn't have a church. I believe there are many churches going astray with women pastors that do the business of the church. I'm sure your can do it, I'm sure your good enough. However I'm sure some of you could play football too however I dare you go stand next a 300 pnd man and get hit once. There is just some places a wonderful women has no place to be because they will get destroyed in it.
Kari if your called to preach the word, minister to kids, the praise God do it. However if you say your called to pastor a church then I very much will question your calling and if you heard from God. |
Luckily, you are not God. You may question my calling at anytime but that still won't make a hill of beans difference to me. Because (like I said) you aren't God. I never said I felt called to pastor a church. I feel led to fill more of an evangelist role than a pastor's role. But if a woman feels led to be a senior pastor of a church...then go for it. |
If you wanted to preach in my church I might let you until you had to say let them be pastors. Not in the word of God, it doesn't work. Thinking you can do it and actually being called do it is two different things. I believe you should evangelize or be a youth pastor as long as there is a male pastor to overview and run the business of it. Stick to the word and then God will bless your ministry. |
While I know you have no desire to be a pastor, I think that you would in time make an excellent one. If God puts a desire in your heart...follow it. _________________ Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod Posts: 25305 4/20/07 1:15 am
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Memory03 |
so now we're assigning God's callings...
that my friends is a slippery slope you're trying to climb... _________________ Be Blessed!
Memory03
8233 post at the original Acts Board...
Real Men get their haircut in a Barber Shop... The rest go to beauty parlors... |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 21953 4/20/07 6:56 am
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KariJay, you seem to have fallen prey... |
Chicago alto |
to the feminist indoctrination that if women are not allowed to do anything men do, then they are unequal. I know, I fell for that one for a number of years as well. However, that is a lie straight from the Deceiver.
Jesus, the Son of God, and an equal part of the Godhead said specifically that He only did what the Father told him to do. Was that because he was incapable of doing it Himself? Of course not. It was because He understood His role and God the Father's role.
Likewise, it does not indicate women are incapable or unequal just because they are given different roles than men in Scripture. Whatever your calling, it needs to follow in line with the teachings of Scripture or you will be outside His designated boundaries. If God had wanted men's and women's role to be interchangeable, He would have made men capable of bearing children.
Don't get swallowed up with Korah (Number chapter 16). |
Friendly Face Posts: 273 4/20/07 11:05 am
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Re: KariJay, you seem to have fallen prey... |
roughridercog |
Chicago alto wrote: | to the feminist indoctrination that if women are not allowed to do anything men do, then they are unequal. I know, I fell for that one for a number of years as well. However, that is a lie straight from the Deceiver.
Jesus, the Son of God, and an equal part of the Godhead said specifically that He only did what the Father told him to do. Was that because he was incapable of doing it Himself? Of course not. It was because He understood His role and God the Father's role.
Likewise, it does not indicate women are incapable or unequal just because they are given different roles than men in Scripture. Whatever your calling, it needs to follow in line with the teachings of Scripture or you will be outside His designated boundaries. If God had wanted men's and women's role to be interchangeable, He would have made men capable of bearing children.
Don't get swallowed up with Korah (Number chapter 16). |
If it were up to men to have children, we wouldn't do it.
But I'm sticking by my idea that there are tons of women with a call on their life that would make an impact if COG ministers are allowed to pastor outside the organization. _________________ Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod Posts: 25305 4/20/07 11:08 am
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