Actscelerate.com Forum Index Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
r/Actscelerate
Browse by what's: hot | new | rising | top of the week

Secular Music in Church. WWJD?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
 
   Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Hot Discussions Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Message Author
Post Re: Christian or Secular Charlie Metz
myinquringmind wrote:
We all wanna be loved, yeah
We all want just a little respect
We all wanna be loved
Tell me what's wrong with that
Oh, somebody tell me

A rainy Monday afternoon
There's a funk over the city
Everybody's movin' to a different tune
Some are weak and some are strong
And some are sittin' pretty
And then there's others who are barely hanging on

It's no easy situation
People living in their separate worlds
But one thing we got in common is

(chorus)
We all wanna be loved
We all want just a little respect
We all wanna be loved
Tell me what's wrong with that

I've never heard a dying soul
Wish that he had taken
More time on his portfolio
I swear I've never heard a mama say
Should've never had that baby
As a doctor holds her newborn on display

It's the heavenly prescription
A little bit will go a long, long way
Just put yourself in their position, don't...

(repeat chorus 2x)

[Ahhh yeah, now this is what I call a party]
[Party people everywhere]
[Look to my left, there go my boys]
[Hold up fellows, hold up]
[Wait, hold up fellows]

Faith and hope are worth a mention
But love is holding it's position

(repeat chorus)

Love is a thing that we all crave
Let's get it straight




Don't know or care. The concern is not whether the lyrics are good or not but if the performer it points to provides a good testimony for Christ is a good role model. For example, if a basketball star is looked up to and they get busted for drug abuse, are they still a good role model? I would postulate no. With christianity there needs to be a better standard than that of the world. So, if we play secular music we better make sure that the people we are pointing the "seekers" to provide a good testimony as a christian and provide a good role model as a christian.
_________________
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14
Acts-celerater
Posts: 705
3/5/07 7:02 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post aerosmith? Charlie Metz
They are great role models to tell new christians or non-christians to follow after.
_________________
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14
Acts-celerater
Posts: 705
3/5/07 7:28 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post no beer? Charlie Metz
KevinLloyd wrote:
I'll try to answer things directed towards me...

Would I serve beer?
That's stupid. No.


Why not? Where in the Bible is the prohibition for beer? I for one do not partake and I would never tell someone it is ok. As a matter of fact, I believe partaking of beer is sinful. But, by using your argument about introducing worldly music/culture/entertainment into your service, why dont you use beer? Curious why that line has ben drawn. I would like to understand it.

Quote:
Where do I draw the line?
Anything that distracts the people who I'm trying to attract or anything that would drive them to sin. Now, I know the argument that says just b/c you use a secular song in church that weak minded people are going to think it's ok...blah, blah, blah. Whatever. I've been doing this for awhile and that has never happened. No person that I know has ever been "backslidden" b/c of a secular song. In fact, one of the most powerful moments that I've ever experienced in church was easter a few years ago when my wife sang a song by Evanescence..."Bring Me To Life". It was incredible and so many lives were changed.


Blah blah blah? Interesting. I am relatively new to actscelerate but I have seen people say that when someone brings up a good point you dismiss them, accuse them of being a pharisee, and say we are intolerant. I would like to know what logic you use to defend the usage of worldly entertainment and culture (of which scripture warns us of) in your worship services.
_________________
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14
Acts-celerater
Posts: 705
3/5/07 7:50 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Telecaster
Reality wrote:
The people who do secular music don't sing songs that have bad lyrics. Are you people really that dumb. We will do a song that fits with the theme we are trying to get across.

Theme: God's Plan for sex Song: Easier Than Love Switchfoot
Theme: Chasing your dreams Song: Dream On Aerosmith
Theme: Death to Life in Christ Song Bring Me To Life Evanescence
Theme: Heaven Song: Where The Streets Have No Names U2

This is the idea, not to sing about all the PLEASE SELECT ANOTHER WORD you guys for some crazy reason think we are allowing in our churches. We are not as old school as many of you, but we do have some sense. We love God with everything we have in us. We love people with everything in us. We want to be with them in heaven one day. So if you only have negative things to say, go be with your four and no more, have church how you see fit and leave us alone.


Wow, what a negative post. And you guys say we throw stones at you. I've never called you dumb or spoke of any c*** (dont' want to pseduo cuss) as you say. Again, who cares if the song doesn't have bad lyrics, you promote the artist, which promotes the industry, which promotes the culture that has brainwashed so many today. Plain and simply, you have nothing to stand on.

Oh and brother, you assume again that because we're not emergent like you, that our congregations aren't big in number and evangelistic means. Our four and no more huh? You had to reach way back for that one didn't you? It's not the case, but if it was, at least my four would experience the awesome power and holiness and life changing ability of God, not culture.

By the way, U2's song "Where the streets have no name" has nothing to do with Heaven. It's about poverty in Africa.


Last edited by Telecaster on 3/5/07 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1882
3/5/07 7:58 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: no beer? KevinLloyd
COGCharlie wrote:
KevinLloyd wrote:
I'll try to answer things directed towards me...

Would I serve beer?
That's stupid. No.


Why not? Where in the Bible is the prohibition for beer? I for one do not partake and I would never tell someone it is ok. As a matter of fact, I believe partaking of beer is sinful. But, by using your argument about introducing worldly music/culture/entertainment into your service, why dont you use beer? Curious why that line has ben drawn. I would like to understand it.

Quote:
Where do I draw the line?
Anything that distracts the people who I'm trying to attract or anything that would drive them to sin. Now, I know the argument that says just b/c you use a secular song in church that weak minded people are going to think it's ok...blah, blah, blah. Whatever. I've been doing this for awhile and that has never happened. No person that I know has ever been "backslidden" b/c of a secular song. In fact, one of the most powerful moments that I've ever experienced in church was easter a few years ago when my wife sang a song by Evanescence..."Bring Me To Life". It was incredible and so many lives were changed.


Blah blah blah? Interesting. I am relatively new to actscelerate but I have seen people say that when someone brings up a good point you dismiss them, accuse them of being a pharisee, and say we are intolerant. I would like to know what logic you use to defend the usage of worldly entertainment and culture (of which scripture warns us of) in your worship services.


The beer thing. This is not being dismissive. That is dumb. That's why I draw the line there. Simple enough.

On being dismissive of things. I have not been that way. I have given you guys every reason why I do what I do. There are lost people who are dying & going to hell. They will never go to your church. They may have a shot at mine. I feel like the bible tells us to reach them. I'm reaching them. There is nothing dismissive about that. You guys keep throwing up the same scriptures to me. So, I keep giving you the same one that I'm founding alot of this on...compel them to come in. It's not that I'm dismissive at all. It's that you don't agree w/ me & I won't bend.

What's intolerant is the fact that none of you will simply say, "Ok, we don't agree w/ it...but it's working...people are being changed." You keep fighting a battle that you're not going to win. We are going to do anything short of sin to reach people. We don't use the same methods or terminology that you do. Deal w/ it. We don't care if you don't agree. You are not our target.

While I feel like I'm trying to be productive...I get nothing but pushback from just a few of you. Deal w/ it. This is how I am. Call me shallow, dismissive, whatever...I've been none of those. I have given you the same answers over & over again and they are not what you want to hear. Period.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/5/07 8:02 pm


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Telecaster
KevinLloyd wrote:
Where do I draw the line? Anything that distracts the people who I'm trying to attract or anything that would drive them to sin. Now, I know the argument that says just b/c you use a secular song in church that weak minded people are going to think it's ok...blah, blah, blah. Whatever. I've been doing this for awhile and that has never happened. No person that I know has ever been "backslidden" b/c of a secular song. In fact, one of the most powerful moments that I've ever experienced in church was easter a few years ago when my wife sang a song by Evanescence..."Bring Me To Life". It was incredible and so many lives were changed.


You must pastor in a place where no one has the ability to influenced by culture being you say none of that "blah,blah,blah" has ever happened. Makes me wonder being that they aren't influenced by culture, why you spend so much time manipulating it to reach them? Now that's a mystery and yet another thing confusing Kevin.

Oh yea, and people love bringing their friends to a place where they can enjoy their lifestyles and culture and be comfortable and entertained. As for your stats on most emergent things growing . . . I'd visit a circus if it was free too.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1882
3/5/07 8:02 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post KevinLloyd
Telecaster wrote:
Reality wrote:
The people who do secular music don't sing songs that have bad lyrics. Are you people really that dumb. We will do a song that fits with the theme we are trying to get across.

Theme: God's Plan for sex Song: Easier Than Love Switchfoot
Theme: Chasing your dreams Song: Dream On Aerosmith
Theme: Death to Life in Christ Song Bring Me To Life Evanescence
Theme: Heaven Song: Where The Streets Have No Names U2

This is the idea, not to sing about all the PLEASE SELECT ANOTHER WORD you guys for some crazy reason think we are allowing in our churches. We are not as old school as many of you, but we do have some sense. We love God with everything we have in us. We love people with everything in us. We want to be with them in heaven one day. So if you only have negative things to say, go be with your four and no more, have church how you see fit and leave us alone.


Wow, what a negative post. And you guys say we throw stones at you. I've never called you dumb or spoke of any PLEASE SELECT ANOTHER WORD as you say. Again, who cares if the song doesn't have bad lyrics, you promote the artist, which promotes the industry, which promotes the culture that has brainwashed so many today. Plain and simply, you have nothing to stand on.

Oh and brother, you assume again that because we're not emergent like you, that our congregations are big in number and evangelistic means. Our four and no more huh? You had to reach way back for that one didn't you? It's not the case, but if it was, at least my four would experience the awesome power and holiness and life changing ability of God, not culture.


No, I think the assumption is that your congregation is small...not big.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/5/07 8:04 pm


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post myinquringmind
COGCharlie wrote:
Quote:
The concern is not whether the lyrics are good or not but if the performer it points to provides a good testimony for Christ is a good role model.


The secular artist who performed the song chances are didn't write it. The church singing it didnt write it either. The church singing it I am pretty sure "provides a good testimony for Christ" and "is a good role model".
Friendly Face
Posts: 100
3/5/07 8:07 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post KevinLloyd
I've heard so much negative about the secular music because you guys say that it promotes the artist behind it & their lifestyle. Ok.

So I'm assuming that this bleeds over into other forms of media as well. Movies, magazines, etc.

So what about Passion of the Christ? Wasn't it made by a guy who made some anti-semitic statements last year? Wasn't it made by a guy who is seen in some sexual scenes in earlier movies & using language that we may consider cursing? What's the difference?

Seriously, don't throw me the line of "well, it's about Jesus." No, that's not the question. You show that in church...you're promoting what's "behind" it...no? Some kid is going to hear that Mel Gibson made it and they're going to rent the Lethal Weapon series. They are going to be corrupted by filthy language, nudity, sex, violence, etc. They may never recover!
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/5/07 8:08 pm


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Re: no beer? Telecaster
KevinLloyd wrote:
On being dismissive of things. I have not been that way. I have given you guys every reason why I do what I do. There are lost people who are dying & going to hell. They will never go to your church. They may have a shot at mine. I feel like the bible tells us to reach them. I'm reaching them. There is nothing dismissive about that. You guys keep throwing up the same scriptures to me. So, I keep giving you the same one that I'm founding alot of this on...compel them to come in. It's not that I'm dismissive at all. It's that you don't agree w/ me & I won't bend.

What's intolerant is the fact that none of you will simply say, "Ok, we don't agree w/ it...but it's working...people are being changed." You keep fighting a battle that you're not going to win. We are going to do anything short of sin to reach people. We don't use the same methods or terminology that you do. Deal w/ it. We don't care if you don't agree. You are not our target.

While I feel like I'm trying to be productive...I get nothing but pushback from just a few of you. Deal w/ it. This is how I am. Call me shallow, dismissive, whatever...I've been none of those. I have given you the same answers over & over again and they are not what you want to hear. Period.


Actually you're right Kevin. You do give the same answers. Christ said compel them to come in. And we've already established that's not an answer to the scriptural questions that have been brought to you. It has nothing to do with not accepting them because it's not what we want to hear.

And I say this with all sincerity. I respect you in the fact that you have a heart to reach people, but I can't go any further because you're methods clearly violate scripture.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1882
3/5/07 8:09 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: no beer? KevinLloyd
Telecaster wrote:
KevinLloyd wrote:
On being dismissive of things. I have not been that way. I have given you guys every reason why I do what I do. There are lost people who are dying & going to hell. They will never go to your church. They may have a shot at mine. I feel like the bible tells us to reach them. I'm reaching them. There is nothing dismissive about that. You guys keep throwing up the same scriptures to me. So, I keep giving you the same one that I'm founding alot of this on...compel them to come in. It's not that I'm dismissive at all. It's that you don't agree w/ me & I won't bend.

What's intolerant is the fact that none of you will simply say, "Ok, we don't agree w/ it...but it's working...people are being changed." You keep fighting a battle that you're not going to win. We are going to do anything short of sin to reach people. We don't use the same methods or terminology that you do. Deal w/ it. We don't care if you don't agree. You are not our target.

While I feel like I'm trying to be productive...I get nothing but pushback from just a few of you. Deal w/ it. This is how I am. Call me shallow, dismissive, whatever...I've been none of those. I have given you the same answers over & over again and they are not what you want to hear. Period.


Actually you're right Kevin. You do give the same answers. Christ said compel them to come in. And we've already established that's not an answer to the scriptural questions that have been brought to you. It has nothing to do with not accepting them because it's not what we want to hear.

And I say this with all sincerity. I respect you in the fact that you have a heart to reach people, but I can't go any further because you're methods clearly violate scripture.


Exactly...It has nothing to w/ WHAT I say...it's not what you want to hear. It never will be.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/5/07 8:16 pm


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Re: no beer? Telecaster
KevinLloyd wrote:
Telecaster wrote:
KevinLloyd wrote:
On being dismissive of things. I have not been that way. I have given you guys every reason why I do what I do. There are lost people who are dying & going to hell. They will never go to your church. They may have a shot at mine. I feel like the bible tells us to reach them. I'm reaching them. There is nothing dismissive about that. You guys keep throwing up the same scriptures to me. So, I keep giving you the same one that I'm founding alot of this on...compel them to come in. It's not that I'm dismissive at all. It's that you don't agree w/ me & I won't bend.

What's intolerant is the fact that none of you will simply say, "Ok, we don't agree w/ it...but it's working...people are being changed." You keep fighting a battle that you're not going to win. We are going to do anything short of sin to reach people. We don't use the same methods or terminology that you do. Deal w/ it. We don't care if you don't agree. You are not our target.

While I feel like I'm trying to be productive...I get nothing but pushback from just a few of you. Deal w/ it. This is how I am. Call me shallow, dismissive, whatever...I've been none of those. I have given you the same answers over & over again and they are not what you want to hear. Period.


Actually you're right Kevin. You do give the same answers. Christ said compel them to come in. And we've already established that's not an answer to the scriptural questions that have been brought to you. It has nothing to do with not accepting them because it's not what we want to hear.

And I say this with all sincerity. I respect you in the fact that you have a heart to reach people, but I can't go any further because you're methods clearly violate scripture.


Exactly...It has nothing to w/ WHAT I say...it's not what you want to hear. It never will be.


I really enjoy when you expose my typos to try to prove a point. If anything it further proves my point that you have no answer for the scriptural questions that have come your way. You cite the same scripture and throw hypotheticals and enlarged typos out there to keep from answering. Again, I'm amazed.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1882
3/5/07 8:37 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: no beer? KevinLloyd
Telecaster wrote:
KevinLloyd wrote:
Telecaster wrote:
KevinLloyd wrote:
On being dismissive of things. I have not been that way. I have given you guys every reason why I do what I do. There are lost people who are dying & going to hell. They will never go to your church. They may have a shot at mine. I feel like the bible tells us to reach them. I'm reaching them. There is nothing dismissive about that. You guys keep throwing up the same scriptures to me. So, I keep giving you the same one that I'm founding alot of this on...compel them to come in. It's not that I'm dismissive at all. It's that you don't agree w/ me & I won't bend.

What's intolerant is the fact that none of you will simply say, "Ok, we don't agree w/ it...but it's working...people are being changed." You keep fighting a battle that you're not going to win. We are going to do anything short of sin to reach people. We don't use the same methods or terminology that you do. Deal w/ it. We don't care if you don't agree. You are not our target.

While I feel like I'm trying to be productive...I get nothing but pushback from just a few of you. Deal w/ it. This is how I am. Call me shallow, dismissive, whatever...I've been none of those. I have given you the same answers over & over again and they are not what you want to hear. Period.


Actually you're right Kevin. You do give the same answers. Christ said compel them to come in. And we've already established that's not an answer to the scriptural questions that have been brought to you. It has nothing to do with not accepting them because it's not what we want to hear.

And I say this with all sincerity. I respect you in the fact that you have a heart to reach people, but I can't go any further because you're methods clearly violate scripture.


Exactly...It has nothing to w/ WHAT I say...it's not what you want to hear. It never will be.


I really enjoy when you expose my typos to try to prove a point. If anything it further proves my point that you have no answer for the scriptural questions that have come your way. You cite the same scripture and throw hypotheticals and enlarged typos out there to keep from answering. Again, I'm amazed.


I have no idea what you are talking about. What typo? I'm just making the point that you call what I say shallow & dismissive b/c it's not what you guys want to hear.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/5/07 8:54 pm


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post wvwatchman
It is really sad that Christ has to be snuck in on the back of some well-designed Man-Made plan and strategy. Let's meet their needs, coddle them and then we'll bring Him in after we build a relationship with them. Jesus is THE answer, not an after thought. Why would someone say " this person or that person would never step foot in this Church or that one?" Let's get it straight YOU don't know what the Holy Ghost will do to someone's heart. And some Man-Made target audience won't tell anyone what He will do. Talk about a form of Godliness and denying the power thereof. Oh that's right scripture is off limits, How dare I, a born-again, Blood-washed, Holy Ghost-filled, tongue-talking, Child of the Most High God quote, no throw around, scripture. That Word is Life to me, and like Peter and John, I can't help but to speak those things which I have seen and heard.
If all I saw and heard was McLaren, Hybel or some other Hireling then I would only spew out their rhetoric, and lead folk down the wide road. As stated earlier If you are loved by sinners then You are wrong, dead wrong. I guess Jesus was old fashioned, He didn't mean We would be hated, He was delusional.
The woman at the well wasn't in Jesus target audience, she was Samaritan. But He did always those things which pleased His Father. In other words, He was SO Heavenly minded, He had to be Earthly Good. Because the flesh must always Bow to the Spirit. But if there is no Spirit, then the flesh has free reign.
Hath God REALLY said come out from among them and be ye seperate, ?
Hath God REALLY said And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Yes He has.
Does that mean we neglect them, of course not. We give them Christ today is the day of salvation, not 6 weeks from now on FRIEND DAY. They could be dead by then. Which brings me to the final point.
Compel them to come in. That word Compel means to constrain(confine, force) from necessity. Not invite them to hear a SINNER or eat donuts and watch a hawaiian shirt clad life-coach who spent all week carefully preparing the weekly agenda down to the minute speak some pop-psychology repackaged for Christian consumption.
Muslims, Homosexuals and Liberals are taking over, wake up thou that sleepest and CHRIST shall give thee LIGHT. Not your cell group.
_________________
Amos 8:11-12
John 12:32
Hey, DOC
Posts: 59
3/5/07 10:04 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Hey Guys, let's call a truce here. Layperson
We have 9 pages and we are no closer than we were on page one.

The Emergents are not going to give in and the Traditionalists aren't either.

Let's call it quits.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/5/07 10:15 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Hey Guys, let's call a truce here. Charlie Metz
Layperson wrote:
We have 9 pages and we are no closer than we were on page one.

The Emergents are not going to give in and the Traditionalists aren't either.

Let's call it quits.


Yea, but they have offered no scripture. They misquote the scripture that talks about compelling them without understanding the context or the root word itself. Other than that, they offer no scripture to tell us why it is ok to play secular music in church. It is funny how people who adhere to the Word of God are "traditionalists." I thought when you adhered to the Word of God you were called Christian.

Truce? I would like to see them offer scripture to support playing secular music in church or refute the scripture that has been presented as to why you shouldn't play it in church. Then, we can call a "truce."
_________________
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14
Acts-celerater
Posts: 705
3/6/07 7:20 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Hey Guys, let's call a truce here. Reality
COGCharlie wrote:
Layperson wrote:
We have 9 pages and we are no closer than we were on page one.

The Emergents are not going to give in and the Traditionalists aren't either.

Let's call it quits.


Yea, but they have offered no scripture. They misquote the scripture that talks about compelling them without understanding the context or the root word itself. Other than that, they offer no scripture to tell us why it is OK to play secular music in church. It is funny how people who adhere to the Word of God are "traditionalists." I thought when you adhered to the Word of God you were called Christian.

Truce? I would like to see them offer scripture to support playing secular music in church or refute the scripture that has been presented as to why you shouldn't play it in church. Then, we can call a "truce."



Do you have a direct scripture on why you wear suits or why you have church on Wednesday night. Does scripture say to go to church three times a week? No, but if that works for you that's great. Every little thing a church does, does not have to have a direct scripture for it to be OK.
Friendly Face
Posts: 119
3/6/07 9:01 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Hey Guys, let's call a truce here. Telecaster
[quote="Reality"]
COGCharlie wrote:
Layperson wrote:
We have 9 pages and we are no closer than we were on page one.

The Emergents are not going to give in and the Traditionalists aren't either.

Let's call it quits.


Yea, but they have offered no scripture. They misquote the scripture that talks about compelling them without understanding the context or the root word itself. Other than that, they offer no scripture to tell us why it is OK to play secular music in church. It is funny how people who adhere to the Word of God are "traditionalists." I thought when you adhered to the Word of God you were called Christian.

Truce? I would like to see them offer scripture to support playing secular music in church or refute the scripture that has been presented as to why you shouldn't play it in church. Then, we can call a "truce."



Do you have a direct scripture on why you wear suits or why you have church on Wednesday night. Does scripture say to go to church three times a week? No, but if that works for you that's great. Every little thing a church does, does not have to have a direct scripture for it to be OK.[/quote

That's where you're wrong. Scriptures give us the parameters by which all ministry is to be done. The suit issue was instituted from scriptures suggesting people give God their best. The meeting 3 times a week came from scriptures talking about the frequency of meeting the NT church had. So scriptures helps define everything we do. I would say that if I couldn't find a scripture to support my methods and that wouldn't contradict the rest of the Word, I would definitely think twice about my ways.

It's a littler bothersome to hear a pastor that claims to pastor a church of 1000 say that everything in the church doesn't have to be scripturally based. That's obsurd and disappointing. Then again, maybe that's just the Emergent thing.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1882
3/6/07 9:05 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post broncofan
KevinLloyd wrote:
I'll try to answer things directed towards me...

Would I change lyrics to secular songs?
I've never really come up on one that I would use that needed it. If we're going to use a song...it would be one that could stand alone w/o needing lyrics changed. We're not using anything that has any negative or vulgarity at all. In fact, it's like someone already said...some of these songs you can't tell if they are Christian or not.

Would I serve beer?
That's stupid. No.

Where do I draw the line?
Anything that distracts the people who I'm trying to attract or anything that would drive them to sin. Now, I know the argument that says just b/c you use a secular song in church that weak minded people are going to think it's ok...blah, blah, blah. Whatever. I've been doing this for awhile and that has never happened. No person that I know has ever been "backslidden" b/c of a secular song. In fact, one of the most powerful moments that I've ever experienced in church was easter a few years ago when my wife sang a song by Evanescence..."Bring Me To Life". It was incredible and so many lives were changed.

Is all we care about "packing the house" or Numbers?
No. The thing we care about is exposing the most people we can to the gospel. We care about doing things w/ creativity, excellence, Christ-centered, engaging, etc. Now, I can't help it if that draws people. We don't start a church and say, "Let's start a church so that we can run 2,000." That's stupid. We start it to impact lives. If that means we have a few..so be it. The funny thing is...most churches that flow in this vein end up growing. Not because of marketing or savvyness. Because they have created irresistible environments that people want to bring their friends to.


Kevin, I don't think you get it with the people that disagree with you. Obviously, it is much more important to them to preach to 50 people (perhaps 95% of them already saved) and stick to their old method of doing things than to preach to 1000, and for arguments sake, say only 20% are saved. After all, what are those 800 doing in Church anyway? Church is for Christians isn't it? How dare those sinners come in the doors. I believe the odds are those people have been preaching to 50 people their whole ministry and 20 years from now they will be preaching to 10 (because the other 40 have died or left). But, they stuck to their principles of only wanting people in Church that are already Christians.

I say this as a person that prefers hymnal to Christian Rock any day of the week, and I enjoy a lot of the Contemporary Christian and believe a blend is the best way for (MOST) churches. However, they absolutely do not get it (and apparently they don't care either) that your purpose is NOT to reach people like me (and that is OK), as the majority of Churches are trying to get people like me. You are trying to reach those that the traditional Church has not reached. (That does not mean the traditional Church cannot reach them, but for whatever reason, they have been a dismal failure). .

Our church had been singing a song (which I don't recall the name), but I had never heard it, but the words were good (not overly "preachy"), but still a good message. Ironically, yesterday, I found out it was Bon Jovi. The conservatives just refuse to listen to the intent of ministries such as yours. We are living in an age of extreme discontentment with the church because of its many failures (and yes, I know it does good too), and you have to get people in the door (or you go in the street) so you can minister to them. How many times must you need to repeat that you DO address their spiritual condition????? I would challenge these stalwarts of the old way to how many people have been saved in their 50 member church compared to yours. Oh, I forgot, you aren't supposed to measure are you? I wonder why that is. If their method is so successful, I would like to hear how many hundreds they have reached in the last year.


I have yet to hear a response to my question on another site when someone referred to the "dark chords" that are satanically inspired where I asked which notes are satanic. Obviously, I want to know which ones are satanic so I can avoid them. I assume those notes are on their Church Piano. Therefore, how can they have an instrument of the devil in their auditorium?

I also mentioned that "He Looked Beyond my Fault" is based upon the melody of the Irish ballad (Danny Boy). Since Danny Boy was very likely played in Irish Pubs, how dare they allow those devil inspired notes in their church. Obviously, that song needs banished from the Churches, as well as every other song Reba Rambo has written because she allowed a secular melody to be the basis of her ministry. After all, one song taints the entire ministry.

I just can't believe the level of logic that people use in trying to put down a style that they don't like. It is interesting when people try to ascribe personal preference to spiritual authority. I am positive that the traditional Churches 75 years ago were appalled at the secularization brought about by Southern Gospel compared to their Hymns from the 1600 and 1700's.

Bethovan was considered a maverick because of the different style he brought compared to his predacessors.

I would really like to see a rebuttal to my argument. Please explain which notes are satanically inspired. How do you allow those on your church piano? More importantly, which scripture passage addresses which notes are inspired of the devil? If the Bible doesn't address it, how do you spiritualize it? I'm serious.
_________________
broncofan
Acts-celerater
Posts: 586
3/6/07 9:40 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Hey Guys, let's call a truce here. broncofan
[quote="Telecaster"]
Reality wrote:
COGCharlie wrote:
Layperson wrote:
We have 9 pages and we are no closer than we were on page one.

The Emergents are not going to give in and the Traditionalists aren't either.

Let's call it quits.


Yea, but they have offered no scripture. They misquote the scripture that talks about compelling them without understanding the context or the root word itself. Other than that, they offer no scripture to tell us why it is OK to play secular music in church. It is funny how people who adhere to the Word of God are "traditionalists." I thought when you adhered to the Word of God you were called Christian.

Truce? I would like to see them offer scripture to support playing secular music in church or refute the scripture that has been presented as to why you shouldn't play it in church. Then, we can call a "truce."



Do you have a direct scripture on why you wear suits or why you have church on Wednesday night. Does scripture say to go to church three times a week? No, but if that works for you that's great. Every little thing a church does, does not have to have a direct scripture for it to be OK.[/quote

That's where you're wrong. Scriptures give us the parameters by which all ministry is to be done. The suit issue was instituted from scriptures suggesting people give God their best. The meeting 3 times a week came from scriptures talking about the frequency of meeting the NT church had. So scriptures helps define everything we do. I would say that if I couldn't find a scripture to support my methods and that wouldn't contradict the rest of the Word, I would definitely think twice about my ways.

It's a littler bothersome to hear a pastor that claims to pastor a church of 1000 say that everything in the church doesn't have to be scripturally based. That's obsurd and disappointing. Then again, maybe that's just the Emergent thing.



Did the New Testament Church have offering plates, pews, ORGANS, electric guitars, air conditioning. For that matter, did they even have a building? I seem to recall they met in houses and caves. I grew up in an area with a lot of Church Of Christ. Their reasoning for no musical instruments in Church was that it wasn't mentioned in the New Testament. Your argument seems to be right in line with them. Otherwise, you need to sell your building, give the money to poor and operate precisely as the they did at that time.

Would not doing their "best" also include the items I mentioned above as well as doing their "best" to reach the lost? Where do you draw the line between what is specifically mentioned versus what you try to extrapolate and say that the things you agree with are based upon such and such?
_________________
broncofan


Last edited by broncofan on 3/6/07 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
Acts-celerater
Posts: 586
3/6/07 9:56 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Hot Discussions Post new topic   Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
Page 9 of 12

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Acts-celerate Terms of Use | Acts-celerate Policy
Contact the Administrator.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by SpellingCow.