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John MacArthur
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Post Da Sheik
For the record, JM does not believe in easy-believism at all (the idea that you make a one-time profession and go your merry way). He actually is a proponent of lordship salvation, which is another animal altogether. Charles Stanley’s version of (unconditional) eternal security is closer to easy-believism. Acts Enthusiast
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10/24/19 7:33 am


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Da Sheik wrote:
For the record, JM does not believe in easy-believism at all (the idea that you make a one-time profession and go your merry way). He actually is a proponent of lordship salvation, which is another animal altogether. Charles Stanley’s version of (unconditional) eternal security is closer to easy-believism.


Agreed here.

JM is not an easy believism guy...nor are most reformed.
If you go back to sin - you were never really saved is their opinion.

Many of my reformed friends - got saved in their 20's - after being saved throughout their childhood and teen years. They all confessed they were "never really saved" when they came back to God in their twenties...so they are able to continue to believe they are only saved ONCE. Any subsequent times of repentance - indicates they had only fooled themselves into believing they were saved previously.
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10/24/19 7:46 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Any subsequent times of repentance - indicates they had only fooled themselves into believing they were saved previously.

Well, to clarify here, the Reformed view absolutely allows for sinning and repentance as a believer, even to some extent longer term sinning that eventually results in repentance.

Reformed theology does not endorse sinless perfection. If your friends said a prayer as a kid and then lived lives as if God didn't exist, then sure they probably held (correctly, IMO) that they were not saved to begin with. But this is not the response of Reformed theology to any believer who sins.

Here's John Newton on sinless perfection:

"The doctrine of sinless perfection is not to be rejected, as though it were a thing simply impossible in itself, for nothing is too hard for the Lord—but because it is contrary to that method which he has chosen to proceed by. He has appointed that sanctification should be effected, and sin mortified, not at once completely—but little by little; and doubtless he has wise reasons for it. Therefore, though we are to desire a growth in grace, we should, at the same time, acquiesce in his appointment, and not be discouraged or despond, because we feel that conflict which his Word informs us will only terminate with our lives."

Newton does a great job here espousing the Reformed view on sanctification: Believers will grow in grace and sanctification by the work of the Spirit, mortifying sin and walking in greater obedience to their Lord. But sin, and repentance, will be a part of the life of the believer until the day they die and are finally glorified by their Creator and Redeemer and forever freed from sin's hold.
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10/24/19 8:20 am


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Post Nature Boy Florida
I'm just telling you how it works in North Florida.

They allow sin. But if you feel revival, feel God calling you to salvation - you must confess I guess I was never really saved... because God doesn't save twice - no need for it.
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10/24/19 9:01 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
I believe you. Just noting that North Florida isn't holding to a proper understanding of Reformed theology. Laughing

I think there's also room for error in an individual's understanding of the work of God in their own life, for example, recommitting their hearts to Christ as an act of repentance but (incorrectly) believing it is an act of initial conversion.
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10/24/19 9:11 am


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Post Da Sheik
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
I'm just telling you how it works in North Florida.

They allow sin. But if you feel revival, feel God calling you to salvation - you must confess I guess I was never really saved... because God doesn't save twice - no need for it.


Is there any biblical precedent for being saved twice?
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10/24/19 9:38 am


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Post Mat
Da Sheik wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
I'm just telling you how it works in North Florida.

They allow sin. But if you feel revival, feel God calling you to salvation - you must confess I guess I was never really saved... because God doesn't save twice - no need for it.


Is there any biblical precedent for being saved twice?


So apostasy is not really apostasy in the Bible since in the end God's "love wins?

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10/24/19 11:40 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
Mat wrote:
Da Sheik wrote:
Is there any biblical precedent for being saved twice?


So apostasy is not really apostasy in the Bible since in the end God's "love wins?

First - your engagement doesn't feel like it is occurring in the best of faith. Do you really believe anyone is saying what you just said? Do you honestly think people are advocating a Rob Bell view in this thread? I assume this it not at all the intent on your part, but just so you know, that is how at least I perceived this comment.

Second - is there any biblical reason to think those who apostatize/fall away seek their salvation afresh? Heb 6, Heb 10, and other passages on this appear to communicate the apostasy as final and irreversible.
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10/24/19 12:19 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Da Sheik wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
I'm just telling you how it works in North Florida.

They allow sin. But if you feel revival, feel God calling you to salvation - you must confess I guess I was never really saved... because God doesn't save twice - no need for it.


Is there any biblical precedent for being saved twice?


If you believe backsliding is possible - then you must accept that you can be saved again - OR - that once being saved and then loving this present world or turning back requires eternal damnation.

If backsliding isn't possible - then eternal security is the way to go.
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10/24/19 1:01 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
that once being saved and then loving this present world or turning back requires eternal damnation.

In the case of true biblical falling away (as understood by those who believe it is an act done by those who had been regenerated and saved), I cannot comprehend how it could be any other way. Heb 6:4-8 appears to be absolutely crystal clear on this point.

I see two possible orthodox positions:
- Perseverance of the saints; those who fall away were never truly saved
- The truly regenerate falling away, and becoming those whose "end is to be burned" (Heb 6:8)

I cannot fathom anything in Scripture that would support a model of becoming regenerate, losing your salvation, becoming regenerate again, losing your salvation again, etc.
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10/24/19 1:13 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Dave Dorsey wrote:
I believe you. Just noting that North Florida isn't holding to a proper understanding of Reformed theology. Laughing



Then again - who actually does utilize a proper understanding of Reformed Theology? Maybe the Ligoniers.
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10/24/19 2:10 pm


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Post Da Sheik
I'm simply stating that if the bible teaches a person can be saved more than once, surely there must be some scripture to support this.

The Greek in John 10:28 is emphatic.

Joh 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 

The underlined phrase in Greek is 'ou me eis aion apollumi' and is a double negative which would read in English "they shall never (not at all) perish". I encourage everyone to do their own research. It's easily accessible.
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10/24/19 2:36 pm


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