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The Mexican Border and Terrorism...

 
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Post The Mexican Border and Terrorism... Aaron Scott
We don't have to catch a single terrorist to justify being concerned with the southern border.

I don't have to have anyone break into my house to justify me locking the doors at night.

Here's the deal: We cannot tell how many terrorists were deterred from coming in via the Mexican border...nor can we tell how many were able to avoid detection at all when they came across. The key fact is that IF there is a way to get into the country in a way that cannot be detected, you can be sure that, sooner or later, terrorists will try it. It's certain that the cartels take advantage of weaknesses.

Will a "wall" solve it all. No. But it does several important things, in my view:

1). When people know there is very little chance they will be able to march or sneak into America, that right there keeps a lot of people from even trying, since they will deem it too daunting of a task.

2) If a wall shores up weak areas, the forces illegals to try to cross at other places that are so remote that it cuts down on attempts. Think of it as blocking off lanes of traffic. Yes, some people might get in, but the law can better focus their attentions on two lanes rather than 10 lanes.

3) It also "protects" Mexico, since they are the march-thru country of illegals coming from further south.

4) It might actually save Mexican lives, in that if they know that crossing into America will have to be at remote and very dangerous areas (i.e., far from help), they will almost certainly not make a bid if it will jeopardize them or their children.

Trump need to say, over and over and over, that he/we are not against immigrants--no, we are against ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! HUGE, MASSIVE DIFFERENCE...although the Democrats wouldn't admit it to save a single life.

It appears that our politicians are busier trying to make the other party look bad instead of doing what is right for America. I am all for a "lottery" system that randomly selects the appropriate number of Representative from each state, along with two Senators from each. The rules:

1) Be the required age for the positions.

2) Be a native born American (or, if a naturalized citizen, be here for at least 18 years--the length of time that a native born person must wait until they can vote).

3) Have a high school education and/or be otherwise qualified.

4) Not have certain felonies on record, etc.

You get the drift. I mean, could we POSSIBLY do worse than what we have elected to office? For that matter, maybe we ought to do the presidency that way, too (just make it harder to nuke anyone, I guess, since Cojak might become president).
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1/9/19 10:59 am


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Post Cojak
I do agree with this post. Both parties are guilty of putting party above country for some reason. The wall thing is logical to me. It works in Zoos, uh oh, sorry about that, didn't mean to repeat Trump Jr. who just 'ignorantly' made the comparison and stepped on PC toes. Sorta like Howard Cosell who in his excitement in calling a football game, watching an agile running back dodging tackles and heading for the goal line said, "Look at that monkey go." At that moment, his illustrative career was GONE!

There should be some agreement between the parties for our sake. I keep thinking I read 'Only six terrorists made it across the border, NOT 2000!'

It took only 6 per plane to take us to our knees on 9/11! Statistics show we 'stop' only a small number! So if they prove 6 made it across, we do not know the real number of course.

That all said, I do agree with Aaron, 'cept for that Cojak thang. I am not one of 'em stupid people, just ignorant. Embarassed Cool
But I do love my brother Aaron (I liked that Aaron guy in the Bible too!)
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1/9/19 11:26 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
My question is, if this is such an urgent priority -- worth shutting down the government and potentially declaring a national emergency -- is there a reason the GOP didn't do this when they had the House, Senate, and WH? Why wait until now, when they're out of power, and it has to be a fight?

And don't say the filibuster -- reconciliation rules would have allowed the funding for the wall to pass with a simple majority.

Trump goes to this well whenever things are getting bad on other fronts. A barrier needs to be built. But it's not a national emergency and the government shouldn't be shut down over it. Trump and the GOP are playing everyone for rubes. They had 2 years to do this -- and like SO MANY other issues, when they were in total control they didn't bother with it. It didn't become an emergency until they couldn't do it anymore.
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1/9/19 2:55 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Dave Dorsey wrote:
My question is, if this is such an urgent priority -- worth shutting down the government and potentially declaring a national emergency -- is there a reason the GOP didn't do this when they had the House, Senate, and WH? Why wait until now, when they're out of power, and it has to be a fight?

And don't say the filibuster -- reconciliation rules would have allowed the funding for the wall to pass with a simple majority.

Trump goes to this well whenever things are getting bad on other fronts. A barrier needs to be built. But it's not a national emergency and the government shouldn't be shut down over it. Trump and the GOP are playing everyone for rubes. They had 2 years to do this -- and like SO MANY other issues, when they were in total control they didn't bother with it. It didn't become an emergency until they couldn't do it anymore.


60 votes needed in the Senate. Apparently spending bills haven't went by the "nuclear option" yet.

Trump did say to do that last year - the Senate leadership said they couldn't.

And over a year ago - Trump offered citizenship to DACA (which was all the Dems talked about) to build the wall - the Dems backed off - and DACA is rarely mentioned after he called their bluff. If the Dems had been smart - they would have said great - and the Reps in the Senate probably would have stopped it too.
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1/9/19 3:14 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
60 votes needed in the Senate. Apparently spending bills haven't went by the "nuclear option" yet.

As I said in my post, the filibuster was not actually an impediment here. A spending bill for the wall could have been passed through a reconciliation process that requires only a simple majority.

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2017/what-is-reconciliation/
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1/9/19 3:30 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
My question is, if this is such an urgent priority -- worth shutting down the government and potentially declaring a national emergency -- is there a reason the GOP didn't do this when they had the House, Senate, and WH? Why wait until now, when they're out of power, and it has to be a fight?

And don't say the filibuster -- reconciliation rules would have allowed the funding for the wall to pass with a simple majority.

Trump goes to this well whenever things are getting bad on other fronts. A barrier needs to be built. But it's not a national emergency and the government shouldn't be shut down over it. Trump and the GOP are playing everyone for rubes. They had 2 years to do this -- and like SO MANY other issues, when they were in total control they didn't bother with it. It didn't become an emergency until they couldn't do it anymore.


Now you see why Trump was elected. The RINOS do not want to stop the flood of illegals.

Quote:
Trump goes to this well whenever things are getting bad on other fronts.


He campaigned on this, Dave. Your comment stems from your pettiness on Trump's personality.

And explain how this in NOT a national emergency.
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1/9/19 4:04 pm


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Post Why didn't the Republicans do it when they had Congress AND the White House??? Aaron Scott
Because they are the biggest MORAL COWARDS on earth.

If every last one of them in Congress was laid end-to-end in the Sahara Desert, it would be a good start!

The win our votes by decrying abortion, gay marriage, etc., and standing for family values and immigration reform, etc. AND DELIVER NOTHING!

You can safely vote AT RANDOM now, since you can be sure that the ONLY THING THE REPUBLICANS DO is try to make the Democrats look bad (and vice versa). Just close your eyes and vote, you'll get roughly the same result.

Think of all the time you'll save! No more having to study the issues. No more having to discuss matters with others.

JUST BLINDLY VOTE!

How I detest the Republicans. I hold them in greater contempt than I hold the Democrats. Why? Because the Republicans have been guilty, over and over, of bait-and-switch. Now, the Democrats are guilty of that too, of course (look at all the incredible things they've done for our African American brothers and sisters!), but the Republicans did it to ME.

If Trump runs again, I'll vote for him, most likely. NOT because He's a Republican. But because he really IS NOT like the Republicans. Instead of being against RINOs, I'm looking for those who actually ARE RINO's--they're WAY BETTER than Republicans!

How I loathe the Republican Party. Oh, what they could have done with a president like Trump who, despite being otherwise despicable, is brave to a fault, doesn't mind crushing egg shells, loves being a bull in a china store, and otherwise will roil the waters every chance he gets. We've been needing someone like that for a long time.

I don't know if I made this clear, but I DETEST REPUBLICAN POLITICIANS.

Perhaps we should no longer pray FOR them, but pray AGAINST them!
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1/9/19 7:46 pm


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Post Re: Why didn't the Republicans do it when they had Congress AND the White House??? Resident Skeptic
Aaron Scott wrote:
Because they are the biggest MORAL COWARDS on earth.

If every last one of them in Congress was laid end-to-end in the Sahara Desert, it would be a good start!

The win our votes by decrying abortion, gay marriage, etc., and standing for family values and immigration reform, etc. AND DELIVER NOTHING!

You can safely vote AT RANDOM now, since you can be sure that the ONLY THING THE REPUBLICANS DO is try to make the Democrats look bad (and vice versa). Just close your eyes and vote, you'll get roughly the same result.

Think of all the time you'll save! No more having to study the issues. No more having to discuss matters with others.

JUST BLINDLY VOTE!

How I detest the Republicans. I hold them in greater contempt than I hold the Democrats. Why? Because the Republicans have been guilty, over and over, of bait-and-switch. Now, the Democrats are guilty of that too, of course (look at all the incredible things they've done for our African American brothers and sisters!), but the Republicans did it to ME.

If Trump runs again, I'll vote for him, most likely. NOT because He's a Republican. But because he really IS NOT like the Republicans. Instead of being against RINOs, I'm looking for those who actually ARE RINO's--they're WAY BETTER than Republicans!

How I loathe the Republican Party. Oh, what they could have done with a president like Trump who, despite being otherwise despicable, is brave to a fault, doesn't mind crushing egg shells, loves being a bull in a china store, and otherwise will roil the waters every chance he gets. We've been needing someone like that for a long time.

I don't know if I made this clear, but I DETEST REPUBLICAN POLITICIANS.

Perhaps we should no longer pray FOR them, but pray AGAINST them!


But some on here see his flaws as impossible to overlook while overlooking the truly deadly flaws of the more polished Republicans. A polite man who will watch you drown in preferred to a crude man who will attempt to save you.
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1/9/19 8:23 pm


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Post UncleJD
I agree with you about the GOP Dave. They could have done it, they didn't. I don't blame Trump though, that is on the GOP. Trump now sees its all up to him to be tough and he's doing it. Yes, its to get elected in 2020, that's exactly why the dems are willing to shut down the government for. They know if he gets the wall, he's going to win in 2020. Its about time somebody plays tough, even if its for less than honest reasons. We need the wall, we spend more than 5billion on countries that hate us. That money is easy to come up with (and no, I don't care who pays for it, Mexico, us, Iran, turkistanican, whoever). Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
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1/10/19 10:36 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
UncleJD wrote:
They know if he gets the wall, he's going to win in 2020.

I'm not sure this is true. I think this is part of what is putting the president in such a pickle. If he doesn't get the wall, he's in bad shape for 2020. But if he does, two years out, this is the kind of thing that will be briefly appreciated by his core voters but probably largely forgotten by the time of the next election. I think there's a lot of downside for the president if he loses but not a lot of upside if he wins.

Therefore, the strategic thing to do (I am not saying this is what the president and GOP are doing, though I have my suspicions) is to work really hard to make it look like you're fighting to get the wall, without actually getting it so it can continue to be a campaign issue.
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1/10/19 11:00 am


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Post Cojak
The thing I agree with here is the question WHY?? Probably a lot of politicians are asking the same question.

I get sick of people who are paid well to KNOW MORE THAN I, and not live in hindsight, but see ahead that the bridge is OUT.

And I am sick of the wishy washy GOP, but now I am pretty sick of grinning Pelosi and Shobag.

AT present NEITHER party is looking out for the good of the country. Trump has been accused by many (me included) of acting like a third grader. I see the same in the Democrat leaders.

Many presidents have been ridiculed, but none I have read about has been treated with this much disrespect by both parties. In my own family I see my two sons who are on both extremes of the spectrum united as one for a man who does not live by PC.

Is the presidents view worth a shutdown. Of course not. But that is what we elect leaders for to work out compromises.

I read a 'look at me with pity' article of the government workers who will not get paid this week. No one mentions that many are taking a vacation, some are working at their old jobs every day without pay, some part time jobs, some are borrowing money, BUT ALL WILL RECEIVE their government backpay when the shutdown is over.

I am a hard case at planning for the future. Our Gov't worker gets paid well. The benefits are good, their situation is NOT NEW, every worker knows the possibility and have (or should have) at least a few weeks pay put back. IT seems common sense to me.

And yes I worked in DC during shut downs. I had two workers (out of 36) there every day because they liked their jobs (and me! lol), everyone laughing and carrying on when the gov't re opened we sorta had a party, our work load? in three days you could not tell we had been shut down..

It isn't the worker that loses in the long run, it is the tax payer.

Yeah, I guess I am not sympathetic enough.

Sad

It is workers in construction, sales, production and such I feel sorry for when they lose their jobs because they do not have that safety net. Shocked
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1/10/19 11:47 am


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Post Some thoughts.... Aaron Scott
A study found that if someone calls a company to have an issue resolved, and it is perceived that the company really tries to resolve the matter, but fails to do so, it is still a NET POSITIVE for the company! That is, the customer still feels good about the company, even if the company could not make happen what they wanted to happen. Of course, this is predicated on the perception that the company really, really tried.

It seems to me that we should keep the government shut down indefinitely...opening it back up piecemeal, and only in those areas where the squeaky wheels are making the most noise. It is entirely likely, that in such a shutdown, we are able to tell which parts of the government are really important, and which aren't. That may be a good reason to cut a few billions dollars out of the federal budget.

But I digress....

If Trump is perceived by his base to have really, really tried--and the longer the shutdown continues, the more he may be perceived as having tried--it may be that even if he couldn't deliver on the wall this time around, he will still have their support, since they would think he really, really tried.

HOWEVER, if he is going to open the government back up, he is going to have to find a strategic way to do so--one that makes him look like a winner (and, it is hoped, makes the Democrats look like almost treasonous).

One thing he has GOT to do: He simply has to change the Democrat narrative about him being "anti-immigrant" to "No, I'm anti-ILLEGAL immigrant." Or, better yet, he makes is so that all who come across the border are permitted to do so ONLY if they are granted sanctuary in the same towns/counties where Pelosi and Schumer live. Works for me.

America will be well served if Ruth Bader Ginsburg retires...and Pelosi and Schumer are the first into space on a Virgin rocket that malfunctions and takes them to Mars.
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1/10/19 12:15 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Resident Skeptic wrote:
And explain how this in NOT a national emergency.

I'm certain I'm going to regret engaging with you again on this topic, but YOLO.

It's not my job to prove a negative -- that's not how it works. So to answer your question, it's not a national emergency because there's no evidence that it is a national emergency.

If you'd like to present some evidence to support the claim that it is a national emergency, go ahead.
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1/11/19 8:07 am


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Post Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
And explain how this in NOT a national emergency.

I'm certain I'm going to regret engaging with you again on this topic, but YOLO.

It's not my job to prove a negative -- that's not how it works. So to answer your question, it's not a national emergency because there's no evidence that it is a national emergency.

If you'd like to present some evidence to support the claim that it is a national emergency, go ahead.



Here is why this is indeed a national emergency.



That is just from 2016. How many actually got in? How many of those apprehended were released into society due to left-wing policies? How many American lives could have been saved had we made it extremely difficult for these people to sneak in? It is a national emergency because normal legislative methods to deal with it are being hijacked by a party that wants to replace Americans with a bunch of serfs
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