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Do y’all support this?
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Post Do y’all support this? Chicago27
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-itemizing/millions-would-lose-mortgage-gift-write-offs-under-u-s-tax-bill-study-idUSKBN1E206I Friendly Face
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12/7/17 10:27 pm


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Post Cojak
Shucks I understand this completely. Politics as usual.

Republicans propose, the Democrats find hundreds of ways the world is falling apart.

But then the Democrats propose, and the Republicans find hundreds of ways the world is falling apart.

Got it. Sorta like the Jerusalem deal. Some time back I understand Democrats were all for the recognizing Jeruslem decision. BUT now that it is being done, it is a big NO NO@!

It all sorta sucks bilge water. We don't even need a congress, it is deadlocked by stupidity.

Shocked
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12/7/17 11:17 pm


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Post Cojak
Until I went into business at 43 yrs of age, I did our own taxes. At 60 I started again. WE only filed a long form once. I figured them both ways and the one house we paid on for three years never made a difference.
In the past few years neither did the donations, although they amounted to min $7K, never made a difference.

Some of this stuff is over blown by tax filing companies like they are savingyou money.. TAxes ain't that hard to do, I am shocked at educated intelligent folks who cannot fill out the simple (complicated sounding) forms both ways and see the difference.

NOw I have always filed <100K, I don't know about the rich guys. Shocked
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12/7/17 11:30 pm


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Post Re: Do y’all support this? UncleJD
Chicago27 wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-itemizing/millions-would-lose-mortgage-gift-write-offs-under-u-s-tax-bill-study-idUSKBN1E206I


What a joke. They take the DOUBLE standard deduction and spin it to be bad. Millions won't LOSE anything, they will take the higher deduction as they ALWAYS have, it will just happen to be that the standard deduction will now be HIGHER than itemizing for most people. IF people give more and pay more mortgage interest than the standard deduction (that is now doubled), then they will STILL itemize their taxes just as before.

They are trying their best to spin this negative, but it won't work. In about 6 months people will realize they are taking home more money than they did even without a raise.
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12/7/17 11:35 pm


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Post Last I heard ... Mat
Last I heard, the cap on mortgage interest deductions was going to drop to $500 K per year. Who can afford a home were the interest alone is $500 K? Not me and not anybody I know. If they can afford that kind of home, they can afford the taxes on their income.

Yes, raising the standard deduction will reduce the number of people filing an itemized return, because their income will be reduced by the standard deduction. As it is, unless you are paying a mortgage which still has a large percentage of interest, you give a larger than average amount to charity and you medical bills are high enough to reach the minimum percentage of income to deduct the balance, you gain more from the higher standard deduction without all the paperwork.

How will it affect church giving? On a local level I believe Christians pay tithes and give because they love the Lord, not for a tax deduction. Some who give will be able to itemize on taxes, but the Saints in the pews are not motivated to give for the sake of reduced taxes.

Now if they start taxing the local church property (our campgrounds, state and national office building and colleges), there's were the pain will come.

Mat
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12/8/17 7:10 am


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Post Re: Last I heard ... FLRon
Mat wrote:
Last I heard, the cap on mortgage interest deductions was going to drop to $500 K per year. Who can afford a home were the interest alone is $500 K? Not me and not anybody I know. If they can afford that kind of home, they can afford the taxes on their income.

Yes, raising the standard deduction will reduce the number of people filing an itemized return, because their income will be reduced by the standard deduction. As it is, unless you are paying a mortgage which still has a large percentage of interest, you give a larger than average amount to charity and you medical bills are high enough to reach the minimum percentage of income to deduct the balance, you gain more from the higher standard deduction without all the paperwork.

How will it affect church giving? On a local level I believe Christians pay tithes and give because they love the Lord, not for a tax deduction. Some who give will be able to itemize on taxes, but the Saints in the pews are not motivated to give for the sake of reduced taxes.

Now if they start taxing the local church property (our campgrounds, state and national office building and colleges), there's were the pain will come.

Mat


Not so fast. You’ve obviously never been a church clerk or treasurer who endured the wrath of the dear saints in the pews after you made a $5.00 error on their annual giving statement,have you? That’s when you find out how important that tax deduction is to them.
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12/8/17 7:37 am


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Post Re: Do y’all support this? Nature Boy Florida
Chicago27 wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-itemizing/millions-would-lose-mortgage-gift-write-offs-under-u-s-tax-bill-study-idUSKBN1E206I


Yeah - it stinks for those of us that itemize deductions.
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12/8/17 8:19 am


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Post Re: Do y’all support this? Dave Dorsey
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Yeah - it stinks for those of us that itemize deductions.

How so? There are a number of things in the tax bill that concern me, but I'm having trouble understanding why this would be one of them.

If you are currently itemizing because the minimum standard deduction is X and your deductions are Y, and they raise the minimum standard deduction to Y, you are still writing off the exact same amount. How is that a loss?
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12/8/17 8:23 am


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Post I could see how this could result in a loss of giving brotherjames
If you get the same deduction whether you giive or not why give? Or why give any extra? Yes I do believe most who tithe and give offeerings will continue to do so. But the incentive to give for some let's say "marginal" believers might be lost. It definitely could affect some churches, especially more mainline type churches. I wouldn't expect much if any change with my people. Acts-celerater
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12/8/17 9:01 am


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Post Re: Do y’all support this? UncleJD
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Chicago27 wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-itemizing/millions-would-lose-mortgage-gift-write-offs-under-u-s-tax-bill-study-idUSKBN1E206I


Yeah - it stinks for those of us that itemize deductions.


That doesn't make any sense. You itemize because your items are HIGHER than the standard. If its no longer higher, then why do it? If it is higher, you may still itemize. Very few deductions are going away, some (like child credits) are actually increasing, home mortgage may be capped at $500K (depending on what the final bill is), but that will only effect the top earners (the rich who supposedly benefit from this).
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12/8/17 9:07 am


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Post Re: I could see how this could result in a loss of giving Dave Dorsey
brotherjames wrote:
If you get the same deduction whether you giive or not why give? Or why give any extra? Yes I do believe most who tithe and give offeerings will continue to do so. But the incentive to give for some let's say "marginal" believers might be lost. It definitely could affect some churches, especially more mainline type churches. I wouldn't expect much if any change with my people.

Money in my pocket is always going to be worth way more than the write off I get on my taxes by giving it. If my giving was dependent on tax law, I would just keep my money to begin with. $100 in my pocket is worth way more than a $50 reduction in my taxable income, which will result in a dollar or two reduction in my tax bill. Plus I'll still be getting those couple of dollars either way, because my deduction will still be the same (or higher) if the standardized deduction is increased.
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12/8/17 9:32 am


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Post Re: Last I heard ... Mat
FLRon wrote:
Mat wrote:
Last I heard, the cap on mortgage interest deductions was going to drop to $500 K per year. Who can afford a home were the interest alone is $500 K? Not me and not anybody I know. If they can afford that kind of home, they can afford the taxes on their income.

Yes, raising the standard deduction will reduce the number of people filing an itemized return, because their income will be reduced by the standard deduction. As it is, unless you are paying a mortgage which still has a large percentage of interest, you give a larger than average amount to charity and you medical bills are high enough to reach the minimum percentage of income to deduct the balance, you gain more from the higher standard deduction without all the paperwork.

How will it affect church giving? On a local level I believe Christians pay tithes and give because they love the Lord, not for a tax deduction. Some who give will be able to itemize on taxes, but the Saints in the pews are not motivated to give for the sake of reduced taxes.

Now if they start taxing the local church property (our campgrounds, state and national office building and colleges), there's were the pain will come.

Mat


Not so fast. You’ve obviously never been a church clerk or treasurer who endured the wrath of the dear saints in the pews after you made a $5.00 error on their annual giving statement,have you? That’s when you find out how important that tax deduction is to them.


Yes, thank God for faithful Church Treasurers who are as quite as monks about who gives what and who does not, while suffering the tax season inquires and the monthly reports. God bless them all!

As to changes in the tax bill, it is the loss of business expense deductions that would be my undoing. Not to mention the Parsonage Allowance tax deduction. Even so, come Lord Jesus, hopefully before April 15th!

Mat
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12/8/17 12:52 pm


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Post Cojak
I guess I travel in the wrong circles. BUT I have NEVER known anyone who GAVE for a deduction. THAT has never made sense to me.

I remember a nephew who couldn't wait until the end of the year to use his Interest payments on his house as a deduction. He was SOOO disappointed when it did not pay him back for the interest. LOL

QUESTION.....
What is the status of the Tax bill? I pay very little attention to the news and NEVER watch TV for news or entertainment. I remember hearing my wife say last week, that it had passed the /senate. Are they still hammering differences in house and senate?????

Confused

If they are, like every time before, it will be so watered down no one will know there was a change.... IF ANY! Shocked
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12/8/17 1:11 pm


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Post Re: Last I heard ... UncleJD
Mat wrote:


As to changes in the tax bill, it is the loss of business expense deductions that would be my undoing. Not to mention the Parsonage Allowance tax deduction. Even so, come Lord Jesus, hopefully before April 15th!

Mat


If you're talking about the pass-through tax that is being discussed between the two houses so we won't know that for a few days.
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12/8/17 1:42 pm


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Post Cojak you need to consider brotherjames
That many people today make a lot of money. There are many in our church who make less than 40000 in household income but we also have many who make well over 200000 in household income, some much more than that. We have gotten several substantial donat ions over the years because they could write it off and offset other income. We would probably have gotten most of those anyway but I can assure you being able to write off 30k to 50k was a consideration in their giving. Acts-celerater
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12/8/17 2:56 pm


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Post Re: Cojak you need to consider UncleJD
brotherjames wrote:
That many people today make a lot of money. There are many in our church who make less than 40000 in household income but we also have many who make well over 200000 in household income, some much more than that. We have gotten several substantial donat ions over the years because they could write it off and offset other income. We would probably have gotten most of those anyway but I can assure you being able to write off 30k to 50k was a consideration in their giving.


Once again, if you give $30K, you'll still itemize! The married-filing-jointly standard deduction increases to $24K.
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12/8/17 2:59 pm


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Post Re: Cojak you need to consider Dave Dorsey
brotherjames wrote:
We would probably have gotten most of those anyway but I can assure you being able to write off 30k to 50k was a consideration in their giving.

This doesn't make any sense. You know what offsets the tax bill associated with other income better than giving 50k to a church? Having 50k in your bank account.

And besides, they would still get the same deduction for that giving. If they gave more than the standard deduction, they would itemize and get every penny tax deduction that they would get now. If they gave less than the standard deduction, they would not itemize, and get MORE of a deduction than they get now.
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12/8/17 3:03 pm


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Post Re: Do y’all support this? Nature Boy Florida
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Yeah - it stinks for those of us that itemize deductions.

How so? There are a number of things in the tax bill that concern me, but I'm having trouble understanding why this would be one of them.

If you are currently itemizing because the minimum standard deduction is X and your deductions are Y, and they raise the minimum standard deduction to Y, you are still writing off the exact same amount. How is that a loss?


If property taxes are limited or charitable donations are limited (or eliminated) (which may still happen) - the total amount of deductions is smaller.

If the higher standard covers it - you are out nothing.
If you are over that amount - your taxes go UP.
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12/8/17 3:25 pm


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Post Re: Do y’all support this? Dave Dorsey
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
If property taxes are limited or charitable donations are limited (or eliminated) (which may still happen) - the total amount of deductions is smaller.

If the higher standard covers it - you are out nothing.
If you are over that amount - your taxes go UP.

Well, it may still happen, like anything else, but it's not in the bill presently so it's not germane to this conversation. There is a new limit to the mortgage deduction bill in the bill, but it's for mortgages of $500,000 or more, and doesn't apply to current mortgages. (Current mortgage owners will still have the current limit of $1m.)
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12/8/17 5:07 pm


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Post Here's the thing... Aaron Scott
Every tax bill tries to become revenue neutral. That is, in some way, the same amount of money keeps coming in to the government.

BUT THAT IS PRECISELY THE PROBLEM!!! The government doesn't want to spend anything less than it is already spending!

Here's how you do it: You pass a law that says every penny you make is taxed at a flat rate. Or, you might create a national sales tax that applies to everything but essential food items. Or some other way of doing things.

As for businesses, you tell them that they can pay X% of income...or X+% of profit, whichever is the most (this keeps businesses from playing the numbers so that they don't have to pay anything, etc.)

If the government brings in HALF of what it brought in last year, THEN GROW UP AND DO WHAT VIRTUALLY EVERY FAMILY IN AMERICA HAS TO DO AT TIMES: MAKE CHOICES!

I loathe our spineless government. I LOVE MY COUNTRY! Never mistake the two for being one and the same.
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12/8/17 6:31 pm


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