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 Hank Hanergraaff an apostate? (L) |
Resident Skeptic |
http://pulpitandpen.org/2017/04/10/the-bible-answer-man-hank-hanegraaff-leaves-the-christian-faith/
This is the same guy who on the air denounced baptismal regeneration (rightfully so). Pride goeth before a fall. Hank joins a cult. Now he is surrounded in church by unregenerate throngs who believe in the power of the Eucharist and that Mary intercedes for us.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
4/12/17 6:45 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Never liked his stuff...he always thought he knew everything.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
4/12/17 7:12 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Never liked his stuff...he always thought he knew everything. |
Somewhere Dr. Walter Martin weeps.
I had a lengthy discussion with an EO member a couple of years ago. He let me know clearly that until I joined the GO I was outside of salvation and not a Christian. This is what makes HH's decision to be so scary.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Last edited by Resident Skeptic on 4/12/17 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
4/12/17 7:18 am
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bonnie knox |
Are the Greek Orthodox not Christians? I don't know. I'm not really familiar with them.
I saw a podcast on the website you linked to which claimed that neither the Greek Orthodox nor the Coptics were Christians. (I do not plan to listen to the podcast.) |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
4/12/17 7:57 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| bonnie knox wrote: | Are the Greek Orthodox not Christians? I don't know. I'm not really familiar with them.
I saw a podcast on the website you linked to which claimed that neither the Greek Orthodox nor the Coptics were Christians. (I do not plan to listen to the podcast.) |
The Hanergraaff story is all over the net on multiple sights. I picked one at random. As for your other points, one would have to closely examine the teachings of those churches and come to their own conclusions as to whether or not their explanation is biblical as it relates to how one can be saved. Paul makes it clear in Titus 3:5 there is one thing alone that saves us, "washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost". We have the narrative of Acts to show us how that experience was received in the first century church.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Last edited by Resident Skeptic on 4/12/17 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
4/12/17 8:12 am
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bonnie knox |
Well, I wasn't really trying to pick on that particular website necessarily, though I think some of the names there triggered my memory as being of the Reformed or Calvinistic persuasion, and I just happened to read an article yesterday by Roger Olson who claimed that some of the younger set of Calvinists seem to think that Arminians are not truly saved.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2017/04/4672/
I guess I'm thinking some people may be a little loose with the phrase "left the Christian faith." |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
4/12/17 8:28 am
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UncleJD |
I like a lot about the Orthodox church, and there is a lot that I don't like. I wouldn't go as far as to say they aren't Christians though. Especially in times like this when they and Coptics (very similar) are the subjects of great persecution and martyrdom. Yes they might make some claims about other believers that are harsh (and wrong), but which denomination doesn't?
as for HH, I never paid attention to him. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
4/12/17 8:37 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
Two longtime close friends of mine left the CoG for Eastern Orthodoxy back in the 1990s. I will say it is better than the Roman Catholic Church, in my opinion, and if I were ever to join a 'high church' tradition, I would definitely be much more inclined to join the EO than the RCC or Anglican Church. The issues are much the same with all of these high church traditions, in my view: 'Holy Tradition' over Scripture, prayers to Mary and other departed saints, sacramentalism, sacerdotalism, apostolic successionism, and so forth. The EO do seem to have the most beautiful iconography and architecture in their churches. They do insist, like Catholics, that they are THE original New Testament Church, but they generally do accept the fact that there may be real Christians in other Christian traditions.
A good article on EO by a Protestant scholar who has specialized in the study of EO may be found at the following link: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1997/january6/7t1032.html |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
4/12/17 9:19 am
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Resident Skeptic |
We as Pentecostals must keep in focus that our roots are in primitive Christianity. Certainly we don't get every point right, but I say without hesitation that we are the closest to what the first century church embraced doctrinally. I had a Catholic admit to me the other day that much of what they teach was not taught by the first century church, but that the church received a progressive revelation over time.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
4/12/17 10:17 am
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| Bonnie, |
Christopher Stephenson |
| Yes, they are Christian. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 144
4/12/17 10:48 am
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| Re: Bonnie, |
Resident Skeptic |
| Christopher Stephenson wrote: | | Yes, they are Christian. |
So their members at one point in their life, felt conviction over their sin, understood their need for God's forgiveness, and received the new birth of the Spirit as described by Christ in John 3 as their only means of being justified in the eyes of God? I'm not buying it. 99% of Catholics and EO don't even think in those terms. Most nominal Protestants don't, either. The EO theologian I talked to laughed at me when I told him I had received the Holy Spirit. He stated that even their bishops would never make such a boast.
It's a false doctrine and substitute for the life changing power of the gospel.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
4/12/17 11:07 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| OTCP an Ole Hank disagree on a bunch a stuff, but his book "Christianity in Crisis" depicts WOF error correctly. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
4/12/17 11:21 am
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| Orthodox Church and Martin Luther |
Mat |
500 years ago (2017 is the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg) Martin Luther helped ignite the Reformation. His spiritual journey is being celebrated in the Lutheran/Evangelical communion around the world. At one time, it is reported, after his departure from the Roman Catholic Church Luther considered joining the Orthodox Church, apparently thinking they could accommodate his "new" understanding of scriptures. Also, being German, he could envision a German Orthodox Church just as there were/are Russian, Greek and many other ethnic expressions. That is not the direction Luther followed, but there seems to be influence.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
4/12/17 12:15 pm
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JLarry |
Hank worker at My Paran for a while. I pastored hear by. I invited him to teach a Bible memory class and speak at our church.
Fast forward several years and he wrote a book The False Revival or something like that. Where he critized the Brownsville Revival. Now if he were speaking across the street from my house I would close my joust so tight I could not hear.
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Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com
No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
4/12/17 1:37 pm
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Da Sheik |
| I agree with most of his thoughts on the WOF movement, but he's so smug I could barely stand to listen to him. If memory serves correct, there were also allegations of plagiarism against HH. He always reminded me of Steve Brown from Key Life ministries - in love with the sound of his own voice. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1865
4/12/17 1:44 pm
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| More of the same "gotcha" journalism |
Aaron Scott |
There is, it seems, a whole industry of "Christians" devoted to telling others why well-known Christians are NOT Christians, are of the devil, are false prophets, etc.
While we all know that there are certainly going to be those who are not true blue, we have to also discern that there is a group of people that, either because they really think they are doing a service for the church, or perhaps because they hope to get known for being the one who "exposed" this or that "false" Christian, live to find fault. You know, kind of like OTCP. 
We have to discern carefully. If not, we'll take their breathless "findings" as the truth, and find ourselves embarrassed. NO ONE LEFT THE CHRISTIAN FAITH by becoming Greek Orthodox! That church is far older than any Protestant church today, and can make claims of apostolic succession with the best of them.
Yes, the engage in some things we don't care for (icons, etc.). But that doesn't mean it is evil or wrong--certainly no more, I would think, than us having a picture of Jesus in the church.
In any case, good people can disagree. Unfortunately, there is a group of folks that will never allow for that. You either believe as they do...or you're going to hell! |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
4/12/17 3:07 pm
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| Re: More of the same "gotcha" journalism |
Resident Skeptic |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | There is, it seems, a whole industry of "Christians" devoted to telling others why well-known Christians are NOT Christians, are of the devil, are false prophets, etc.
While we all know that there are certainly going to be those who are not true blue, we have to also discern that there is a group of people that, either because they really think they are doing a service for the church, or perhaps because they hope to get known for being the one who "exposed" this or that "false" Christian, live to find fault. You know, kind of like OTCP.
We have to discern carefully. If not, we'll take their breathless "findings" as the truth, and find ourselves embarrassed. NO ONE LEFT THE CHRISTIAN FAITH by becoming Greek Orthodox! That church is far older than any Protestant church today, and can make claims of apostolic succession with the best of them.
Yes, the engage in some things we don't care for (icons, etc.). But that doesn't mean it is evil or wrong--certainly no more, I would think, than us having a picture of Jesus in the church.
In any case, good people can disagree. Unfortunately, there is a group of folks that will never allow for that. You either believe as they do...or you're going to hell! |
If one starts embracing a soteri;ogical belief set of a sect that does not lead its members to the new birth, then it matters not how old that sect may be. They are not teaching Biblical salvation. I've dealt with too many Catholics and EO's to believe anything else. Try talking to one about the Bible, walking in the Spirit, etc and they have no clue what you mean.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
4/12/17 6:06 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Two longtime close friends of mine left the CoG for Eastern Orthodoxy back in the 1990s. I will say it is better than the Roman Catholic Church, in my opinion, and if I were ever to join a 'high church' tradition, I would definitely be much more inclined to join the EO than the RCC or Anglican Church. The issues are much the same with all of these high church traditions, in my view: 'Holy Tradition' over Scripture, prayers to Mary and other departed saints, sacramentalism, sacerdotalism, apostolic successionism, and so forth. The EO do seem to have the most beautiful iconography and architecture in their churches. They do insist, like Catholics, that they are THE original New Testament Church, but they generally do accept the fact that there may be real Christians in other Christian traditions.
A good article on EO by a Protestant scholar who has specialized in the study of EO may be found at the following link: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1997/january6/7t1032.html |
I read up to the point where you have to pay to read the rest.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
4/12/17 6:16 pm
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| Re: Bonnie, |
Quiet Wyatt |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Christopher Stephenson wrote: | | Yes, they are Christian. |
So their members at one point in their life, felt conviction over their sin, understood their need for God's forgiveness, and received the new birth of the Spirit as described by Christ in John 3 as their only means of being justified in the eyes of God? I'm not buying it. 99% of Catholics and EO don't even think in those terms. Most nominal Protestants don't, either. The EO theologian I talked to laughed at me when I told him I had received the Holy Spirit. He stated that even their bishops would never make such a boast.
It's a false doctrine and substitute for the life changing power of the gospel. |
My former CoG friends who joined the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the literature they have shared with me, says that since they emphasize the dynamic, ongoing process of salvation (theosis/sanctification), the evangelical question, "Are you saved?" gives them pause. They are hesitant to affirm that any are saved until they reach Heaven, and if one is in communion with the Church, one is being saved and will be saved eventually, if they don't apostasize.
Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 4/12/17 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
4/12/17 6:18 pm
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