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Has our singing "lost something?" |
roughridercog |
Many of us were raised in smaller churches with no air conditioning. Because of this, our windows were wide open and the singing would go through the neighborhood. The neighbors, though most were unbelievers, would always sit on their front porches in awe of the singing. Most of it was from the old red backed hymnal and no one had formal musical training, but all we heard was that there was something "special" about the music.
I remember the sadness and even anger from neighbors when the church put in air conditioning and the windows were finally closed.
Here is the question.
Would people be as touched by our music today if the AC went out and we again sang with the windows open? I look at church today and I see people who are highly trained and talented leading music in many churches and meetings, but I see very few people in the congregation singing as churches used to.
So if your church opened the windows and sang again, would the people be as moved as they used to be? _________________ Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod Posts: 25305 1/4/17 12:14 pm
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Windows closed or open, matters not |
brotherjames |
but what matters is, IS HIS PRESENCE HERE?
I wrote this some time back as a part of a vision for worship. It is what I try to practice as a pastor and inculcate to my Worship Pastor, Worship Team and congregation.
Everything we do then when we meet together is or should be an act of worship. Whether praying, singing, giving our tithes & offerings (free-will), the preaching of the Word, singing solos or special songs. We need to judge everything as to whether it is worship and how does it usher us into His presence. Is God pleased by this worship? If not, then get rid of it. Styles are personal matters. Country Gospel, fast up-tempo contemporary, praise choruses, hymns, camp meeting numbers, slow worship, cantatas, on & on. The music team members and worship leaders are not entertainers, if they are they have no place ministering at the altar of the Lord (for He resists the proud). The worship team should usher us into His presence not hinder His presence, not over shadow it either. The Pastor needs to be led by the Spirit sensitive to the voice of the Spirit who says this is the way, turn this way, and yield to my prompting. The congregation must be sensitive to the prompting of the Spirit as well. Not resisting but all flowing in one accord, to reach one place, the very throne room of Grace, the Holy of Holies! The prevailing thought must be one of: “Is this bringing the Presence of God into our midst?” Is it bringing the church into an attitude of communion & fellowship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Is it being directed by the Holy Spirit or by man? These are matters we need to address. The problem is, what brings you into the presence of God may not affect others in the same way. Therefore, a variety of styles can be utilized to accomplish the same goals and tolerance of others appreciated styles is a hallmark of the mature Christian. This doesn’t mean you never get to hear your personal favorites. However our main concern should be whether or not God is blessing and His presence is allowed to rest and are we entering into His Glory. Is the Lord pleased? He is pleased with a broken contrite spirit. He is pleased when we offer ourselves as living sacrifices. Then the fire can come down and consume us so that what remains is only ashes of the flesh.
Worship’s main aim should be to unite the believer with the presence of God. The problem is many come to dine at the master’s table because of what’s being served on it (style, promises, etc.) or who’s serving it rather than because we desire to be at the table out of love for the master of that table! |
Acts-celerater Posts: 935 1/4/17 3:17 pm
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Re: Windows closed or open, matters not |
roughridercog |
brotherjames wrote: | but what matters is, IS HIS PRESENCE HERE?
I wrote this some time back as a part of a vision for worship. It is what I try to practice as a pastor and inculcate to my Worship Pastor, Worship Team and congregation.
Everything we do then when we meet together is or should be an act of worship. Whether praying, singing, giving our tithes & offerings (free-will), the preaching of the Word, singing solos or special songs. We need to judge everything as to whether it is worship and how does it usher us into His presence. Is God pleased by this worship? If not, then get rid of it. Styles are personal matters. Country Gospel, fast up-tempo contemporary, praise choruses, hymns, camp meeting numbers, slow worship, cantatas, on & on. The music team members and worship leaders are not entertainers, if they are they have no place ministering at the altar of the Lord (for He resists the proud). The worship team should usher us into His presence not hinder His presence, not over shadow it either. The Pastor needs to be led by the Spirit sensitive to the voice of the Spirit who says this is the way, turn this way, and yield to my prompting. The congregation must be sensitive to the prompting of the Spirit as well. Not resisting but all flowing in one accord, to reach one place, the very throne room of Grace, the Holy of Holies! The prevailing thought must be one of: “Is this bringing the Presence of God into our midst?” Is it bringing the church into an attitude of communion & fellowship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Is it being directed by the Holy Spirit or by man? These are matters we need to address. The problem is, what brings you into the presence of God may not affect others in the same way. Therefore, a variety of styles can be utilized to accomplish the same goals and tolerance of others appreciated styles is a hallmark of the mature Christian. This doesn’t mean you never get to hear your personal favorites. However our main concern should be whether or not God is blessing and His presence is allowed to rest and are we entering into His Glory. Is the Lord pleased? He is pleased with a broken contrite spirit. He is pleased when we offer ourselves as living sacrifices. Then the fire can come down and consume us so that what remains is only ashes of the flesh.
Worship’s main aim should be to unite the believer with the presence of God. The problem is many come to dine at the master’s table because of what’s being served on it (style, promises, etc.) or who’s serving it rather than because we desire to be at the table out of love for the master of that table! |
You said a lot off good things, but you didn't answer the questions that I posed.
Has our singing lost something?
If your church windows were opened wide, would people be as moved as they once were by the singing of God's people? _________________ Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod Posts: 25305 1/4/17 4:29 pm
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Yes they would |
brotherjames |
no matter WHAT you're singing, as my points above mentioned, IF the Presence of God is in your house, people who hear it will be moved. I think some of the new stuff is just noise but some of it is awesome. I listened last night to the Acts 6:4 conference in Texarkana. When former AG Genl Supt Thomas Trask finished preaching a great sermon on the necessity to have to Presence of the Lord in our meetings and paying the price necessary for Him to come in the first place, he launched into some really old Pentecostal songs. I knew them all, had sung them all at one time but they were good theology with bad music. Some of our new stuff is good music (different anyway) but not so good theology. When you have both and combine them with worship in Spirit and in Truth, I would gladly let the neighbors hear it and would know God would touch them. |
Acts-celerater Posts: 935 1/4/17 4:35 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
A lot of today's singing has something that the old time singing didn't have. Its called repetitious hype and showmanship.
Your post really touches home when I think about it because I remember those days. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6385 1/4/17 5:08 pm
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No, they would NOT enjoy the singing.... |
Aaron Scott |
Why? Because if the A/C is out, you can be sure that about 90% of the congregation is not going to be there. After all, if it sprinkles, they often miss church. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 1/4/17 5:52 pm
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Re: Has our singing "lost something?" |
georgiapath |
roughridercog wrote: | Many of us were raised in smaller churches with no air conditioning. Because of this, our windows were wide open and the singing would go through the neighborhood. The neighbors, though most were unbelievers, would always sit on their front porches in awe of the singing. Most of it was from the old red backed hymnal and no one had formal musical training, but all we heard was that there was something "special" about the music.
I remember the sadness and even anger from neighbors when the church put in air conditioning and the windows were finally closed.
Here is the question.
Would people be as touched by our music today if the AC went out and we again sang with the windows open? I look at church today and I see people who are highly trained and talented leading music in many churches and meetings, but I see very few people in the congregation singing as churches used to.
So if your church opened the windows and sang again, would the people be as moved as they used to be? |
No, they wouldn't. They would probably go in the house and suffer the heat to keep from listening to it.
It's a poor excuse in my opinion. It's too loud and most of it makes no sense. It's entertainment for the young people. |
Acts-dicted Posts: 7604 1/4/17 8:10 pm
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Re: Has our singing "lost something?" |
THE LOVE OF GOD |
It's a poor excuse in my opinion. It's too loud and most of it makes no sense. It's entertainment for the young people.[/quote]
You are 100 % right. Music is catered to the young people. The older saints are the faithful ones and will endure the "loud" music and entertainment as it is their church. The music directors are in such competition to the larger churches. LOUDNESS never means more anointing - it is usually just distraction. Their attire and gymnastics are distracting as well.
Speaking of singing with windows up, I heard a story of a young man who had a deadly disease and was not saved. A COG tent was located near his home and they sang a song, "Something got a hold of Me". He went down to the tent to see what had a hold of that woman who was singing. He got saved, received the Holy Ghost and became a COG preacher. He evangelized and pastor and several members of his family came to the Lord and his 2 children are COG preachers. Years ago, our music was our calling card so to speak, to get them to the church and then the anointed preaching and prayer won them to God. No clocks to watch or restaurants to go to - just preaching, praying, singing, shouting and watch God move. |
Friendly Face Posts: 387 1/4/17 10:27 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
I don't see the young people singing any more than the old people.
Now, more young people may stand with their hands raised - but not a lot of singing on most songs...except an Anthem like "We Believe" where most people DO sing.
My take:
1) Find more songs that people will sing - anthem type songs that state a truism folks want to say to God directly.
2) Turn the speakers/music down or off(the opposite of what is done). If folks feel the sound is loud enough - their voice is not needed - and won't join in and sing. I watch this every week. Stop all the music and let it just be voices - and most folks WILL sing. _________________ Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 1/5/17 8:36 am
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Couple of Thoughts |
mytwocents |
The big difference that I see is that the music of this era can foster a 'stand and watch mentality' vs a 'participate' mentality within a congregation.
We stand and watch singers sing. That's ok, it has it's place.
Yet a lot of us did exist in an era where singing was a 'group' participation exercise in worship.
Our singing sort of connected us together.
You sing this line, I'll sing that line; I'll echo what you sing, you echo what I sing;
I'll harmonize with you which in some odd way brings my attitude in harmony with you as we do this together.
Many of us do know what it is like to gather around a family piano and harmonize, to sing along in the car, etc.
The one thing I will say is this style brought people together and I fear we
have moved toward individual stars in our musical trends.
I really enjoy this style, as long as it doesn't become a 'cheesy' performance. I know that at times and in segments of the culture it has.
I also enjoy today's style. I love balance.
Both in the right spirit are great and should be embraced by the Church. |
Acts-celerater Posts: 813 1/5/17 9:16 am
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Re: Has our singing "lost something?" |
roughridercog |
THE LOVE OF GOD wrote: | It's a poor excuse in my opinion. It's too loud and most of it makes no sense. It's entertainment for the young people. |
You are 100 % right. Music is catered to the young people. The older saints are the faithful ones and will endure the "loud" music and entertainment as it is their church. The music directors are in such competition to the larger churches. LOUDNESS never means more anointing - it is usually just distraction. Their attire and gymnastics are distracting as well.
Speaking of singing with windows up, I heard a story of a young man who had a deadly disease and was not saved. A COG tent was located near his home and they sang a song, "Something got a hold of Me". He went down to the tent to see what had a hold of that woman who was singing. He got saved, received the Holy Ghost and became a COG preacher. He evangelized and pastor and several members of his family came to the Lord and his 2 children are COG preachers. Years ago, our music was our calling card so to speak, to get them to the church and then the anointed preaching and prayer won them to God. No clocks to watch or restaurants to go to - just preaching, praying, singing, shouting and watch God move.[/quote]
Got me a little nostalgic . _________________ Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod Posts: 25305 1/6/17 4:34 pm
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The COG Apostle |
Bring back the tambourine!! |
Acts-celerater Posts: 566 1/7/17 7:50 pm
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roughridercog |
The COG Apostle wrote: | Bring back the tambourine!! | i
I don't think I want to go that far, _________________ Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod Posts: 25305 1/7/17 8:07 pm
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Cojak |
things are so different. I was a preachers kid. I learned early how to sneak out of church, i did get caught several times. BUT, the church was located in a neighborhood, and folks walked a lot. When I sneaked out I found about as many folk outside listening to the singing as was inside.
i smile at folks that seem to think the early church did not 'sing praise', the entire church was involved. We did use the 3 and 4 part harmony and many times folk did not know they were doing that, it just sounded good. WE (the church) was just praising God.
I talked to a man here in Florida who said his dad loaded up the family and drove to the local Apopka COG and parked on the street with windows 'rolled' down to listen to the singing, most every Sunday night. The family did not attend church anywhere. later the son was saved in the Apopka church.
I am not sure if folk would go out of their way to hear the singing they can hear at about any church. I attend Baptist, Methodist, community, and a few weeks ago an Alliance church, I could just as well been sitting in my local COG.
But the world has changed. I am not sure there is a good answer to your question. BUT the singing is different, that is for sure. _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 1/8/17 12:01 am
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Thanks to Roughrider for making me think |
Preacher777 |
We all want the music to draw us into God's presence. Another goal we have in worship is to help people learn to enter into God's presence through worship anytime throughout the week, not just in services. God does inhabit the praises of His people and we know that in His presence is fullness of joy. One of the first things I ask Christians about in pastoral counseling and when I was doing clinical counseling in areas such as such as stress, anxiety and depression is the amount of time he or she spends in prayer, the Word and worship on a regular basis. My experience shows that people who are disciplined to live a life centered on prayer, the Word and worship have much less trouble with stress, anxiety and depression.
We would probably agree that in general the older Christians grew up working very hard with much less material things and entertainment time. However, they were and are much less inclined to seek out counseling due to depression, stress and anxiety. Can there be a correlation between worshipping God on our own and living in His presence.
I do realize that counseling was accepted much less in previous years compared to today's generations. However, we need to think that back in the slave days when African-Americans were working under the hot sun in terrible conditions. These men and women sang spirituals to comfort themselves rather than having somebody perform for them!
Paul wasn't doing self-help or counseling suggestions when the Holy Spirit inspired him to write Ephesians 5:18-19: And do not get drunk with wine, [l]for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to [m]one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord. Paul was writing to ALL Christians, not specifically to worship teams.
We are deliberate in choosing music that has scripture, focuses on the cross, the blood of Christ and an eternal perspective. My goal in my personal life is to let music minister to my spirit rather than my soulish feel-good realm and to teach others to do the same. I didn't accept Christ until age 25 and experienced the crowd psychology at concerts with groups such as Pink Floyd or the Moody Blues. They really knew how to mesmerize people into a place where troubles and cares seemed to be far away. Of course the hard rock bands were able to get our adrenalin flowing.
I try not to be judgmental but my spirit sometimes senses the same crowd psychology when I see a Christian singer on a platform drawing attention to himself/herself, their outfits, stirring up the crowd etc. Therefore, we teach and disciple people in the worship team to do everything possible to display humility and avoid drawing attention to any person. |
Friendly Face Posts: 434 1/15/17 4:17 pm
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