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Should state AB's and state councils be held accountable for...

 
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Post Should state AB's and state councils be held accountable for... clevelandgrad
Mr. Moderator:
I have a question for the body, if I may? After hearing some of the debt issues that our states are having and knowing the issues that former AB's have left for states and new AB's to deal with.... Should these AB's and councils be held accountable for the messes they leave behind?
What does our leadership do with these folks if they leave a state in a mess?
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11/7/16 10:57 am


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Post Re: State AB's and state councils diakoneo
clevelandgrad wrote:
Mr. Moderator:
I have a question for the body, if I may? After hearing some of the debt issues that our states are having and knowing the issues that former AB's have left for states and new AB's to deal with.... Should these AB's and councils be held accountable for the messes they leave behind?
What does our leadership do with these folks if they leave a state in a mess?


Could you be more specific?

What state is in a financial mess?

Thanks!
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11/7/16 12:48 pm


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Post Re: State AB's and state councils roughridercog
clevelandgrad wrote:
Mr. Moderator:
I have a question for the body, if I may? After hearing some of the debt issues that our states are having and knowing the issues that former AB's have left for states and new AB's to deal with.... Should these AB's and councils be held accountable for the messes they leave behind?
What does our leadership do with these folks if they leave a state in a mess?




Not until Pastor's are as well.
But whadda ya gonna do? Laughing
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11/7/16 3:28 pm


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Post Cojak
There is also a judgement by individuals, most I have known say, "I thought I left it in good shape. It definitely was in better shape than when I arrived."

No one will say, "WOW, I left it in terrible shape, but at least I tried." Shocked
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11/7/16 8:30 pm


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Post clevelandgrad
Mr. Cojak, Mr. Roughrider and Dikaneo,
In my time of being part of the CoG, I have had several great state AB's and then some that really should not have been in that position. I have witnessed some that come in with an agenda of helping those they know and as a result leave a state in a tough spot.
Should our Cleveland leaders be the group responsible for appointing AB's or should the state pastors be given a list of names to choose from with a list of their accomplishments/a resume.
it is becoming obvious that even though our leaders do not get voted back on to the executive level, their friends will find a way to make sure they still have a job somewhere. States need leaders who have people skills, financial skills and a track record of taking the bad and making it good again. Those leaders who leave a mess in their wake need to be sent back home.
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11/8/16 8:31 am


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Post diakoneo
Quote:
Should our Cleveland leaders be the group responsible for appointing AB's or should the state pastors be given a list of names to choose from with a list of their accomplishments/a resume.
it is becoming obvious that even though our leaders do not get voted back on to the executive level, their friends will find a way to make sure they still have a job somewhere. States need leaders who have people skills, financial skills and a track record of taking the bad and making it good again. Those leaders who leave a mess in their wake need to be sent back home.


I believe state pastors should be able to have some say in who there AB is. We are today allowing churches to have a say in who their pastor is, but pastors have no say in who their AB is. Executive committee could nominate three choices for position and post resumes on website. Pastors could vote via church of God website. Wouldn't be hard or take up too much time.

Yes accountability would be nice. Unfortunately many times pastors don't know of the problems previous ABs have left. Just as many churches don't know of the problems many pastors have left.

Lack of accountability:
Seems if there is a systemic problem(or problems) with one pastor or AB that problem (or problems) should be addressed and if not that pastor or AB should be removed from list to pastor or be an AB.
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11/8/16 9:01 am


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Post Re: State AB's and state councils 2ndgeneration
roughridercog wrote:
clevelandgrad wrote:
Mr. Moderator:
I have a question for the body, if I may? After hearing some of the debt issues that our states are having and knowing the issues that former AB's have left for states and new AB's to deal with.... Should these AB's and councils be held accountable for the messes they leave behind?
What does our leadership do with these folks if they leave a state in a mess?




Not until Pastor's are as well.
But whadda ya gonna do? Laughing
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This problem is widespread on every level of leadership in the Church.
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11/8/16 11:58 am


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Post Re: State AB's and state councils Cojak
2ndgeneration wrote:
roughridercog wrote:
clevelandgrad wrote:
Mr. Moderator:
I have a question for the body, if I may? After hearing some of the debt issues that our states are having and knowing the issues that former AB's have left for states and new AB's to deal with.... Should these AB's and councils be held accountable for the messes they leave behind?
What does our leadership do with these folks if they leave a state in a mess?




Not until Pastor's are as well.
But whadda ya gonna do? Laughing
Thumb Up Thumb Up Thumb Up

This problem is widespread on every level of leadership in the Church.


Smile Thumb Up
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11/9/16 12:12 am


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Post Re: State AB's and state councils Mat
Cojak wrote:
2ndgeneration wrote:
roughridercog wrote:
clevelandgrad wrote:
Mr. Moderator:
I have a question for the body, if I may? After hearing some of the debt issues that our states are having and knowing the issues that former AB's have left for states and new AB's to deal with.... Should these AB's and councils be held accountable for the messes they leave behind?
What does our leadership do with these folks if they leave a state in a mess?




Not until Pastor's are as well.
But whadda ya gonna do? Laughing
Thumb Up Thumb Up Thumb Up

This problem is widespread on every level of leadership in the Church.


Smile Thumb Up


So since "everybody" does it, if not fair to hold leadership more accountable the higher you go? Sounds like Mexico to me.

Mat
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11/29/16 9:23 am


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Post sheepdogandy
Centralized government................ gotta love it!










sorry, just got in the flesh for a minute. Embarassed
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11/29/16 4:18 pm


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Post Dean Steenburgh
Since we hear about the CoG operating in a centralized form of government similar to the government in place in Washington D.C. could it be that at the next GA we need to be looking to drain the swamp?

I mean if it's a broken system as some have implied & if the buddy system is in place so that everybody has an income when their assignment is complete, should we not look into re-designing the system we have in place?

Of course that would be tantamount to Trump's plan in D.C. & we can all see how popular that has made him with the old guard, so I don't think this idea is going to win friends & influence people.

I really like the idea of selecting an AB from within our own state ranks.


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11/29/16 8:39 pm


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Post Drain the Swamp Change Agent
Is it even possible to drain the Cleveland COG swamp? You must be angry to drain a swamp. You must be dissatisfied to drain a swamp. If is was Godly to drain the Washington swamp, is it Godly to drain the COG swamp?
If it was Godly to want to bring in outsiders in Washington, is it Godly to bring in outsiders in Cleveland?

What was Godly before the election should be Godly after the election.
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11/30/16 11:16 am


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Post Re: Drain the Swamp Dean Steenburgh
Change Agent wrote:
Is it even possible to drain the Cleveland COG swamp? You must be angry to drain a swamp. You must be dissatisfied to drain a swamp. If is was Godly to drain the Washington swamp, is it Godly to drain the COG swamp?
If it was Godly to want to bring in outsiders in Washington, is it Godly to bring in outsiders in Cleveland?

What was Godly before the election should be Godly after the election.


Who says you have to be angry to look at a better system & find new leadership?

Churches have to do it every time a new pastor comes in for his short or long term tenure.

Why should we just leave things alone ...because they've always been left alone? C'mon ...really?

If we have Godly people elected to office regardless of who they are I have to trust that they will remain Godly.

Who said anything about outsiders being brought in?

I know that if we were to create & design a new system it would be handled in the same Godly spirit that we have been blessed with for all these years.



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12/1/16 12:26 am


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Post Re: Should state AB's and state councils be held accountable for... Mat
clevelandgrad wrote:
Mr. Moderator:
I have a question for the body, if I may? After hearing some of the debt issues that our states are having and knowing the issues that former AB's have left for states and new AB's to deal with.... Should these AB's and councils be held accountable for the messes they leave behind?
What does our leadership do with these folks if they leave a state in a mess?


If the local churches in the state feel that there has been some form of harm done to them while the AB has enriched himself wrongfully, I guess you could take him to civil court to address the issue. There is a history of using the courts for money and property issues. If the AB misused his office (would that be "malfeasance" or "misfeasance"?) you might get a prosecutor to take it to criminal court.

While some Christians believe that you don't take a brother/sister to court, I don't think that has been a concern in the COG. It is hard to contest the actions of a duly appointed officer of a religious organizations unless there is outright fraud and theft. Its easier just to leave that organization if you disagree with the behavior of the leadership.

Mat
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12/12/16 7:43 am


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Post my thoughts wayne
I am learning that bringing issues to our leaders is the best way to handle things.

As a Pastor in Kentucky, I've learned that there are many complaints from pastors regarding various issues but when I go to state meetings, I never hear these issues brought up. We usually just breeze through the agenda and then go home.

I am finding that most of the complainers are those who: do not send in their reports on time, never show up for district/state meetings, never take part in district/state functions and then they sit and whine because nothing is going their way.

So far, I have gone to my state AB with issues and he has responded, I have gone to the Missions director with issues and he has responded, I have gone to the 2nd assistant GO with issues and he has responded, I have now gone to the 3rd assistant GO with issues and he has responded, I've even gone to the GO(both Mark Williams & and now Tim Hill) and they have responded. I don't always get the results that I want but I know they are listening and I believe they/their staff truly look into the issues.

My son who is currently going through the licensing process is having an issue and I am teaching him to go to his leaders for resolution. The ministers under me are being taught not to whine about the issues with the Church of God but to communicate and work with our leaders to correct potential and real issues. They are being taught their is a chain of command and that it is there for a reason.

Bro Mat: I understand your thinking but leaving is not always the best answer. As a Pastor I have watched people come and go and I have learned to deal with that but I know that if they would have just stayed and worked with me and the church, we could have resolved the issues.

Clevelandgrad: yes they should be held accountable and if their leaders are not holding them accountable then show up to these meetings with your questions/suggestions/resolutions, coordinate with other like thinkers and push for change. it may be slow in making some changes but they will happen.

Merry Christmas!
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12/13/16 9:26 am


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