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Resident Skeptic |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Guys,
I have never heard this song before.
Who would remotely think it is a song to be sung at church?
If the church had a football team, perhaps it could be the fight song - but not in church. |
There are many songs that are passed off as "worship" that should never be sung in church.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/17/16 9:09 am
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sheepdogandy |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | sheepdogandy wrote: | John 17:1 ¶ Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
4 "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
6 ¶ "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
8 "For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 ¶ "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13 "But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 ¶ "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 ¶ "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 ¶ "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25 "O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.
26 "And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."
Slam dunk! |
Slam dunk for what, that the being known as God has multiple selves? In this prayer Jesus refers to the Father as the "only true God". Admit it or not this prayer of Jesus is very problematic for Trinitarians. |
No problem for me. 
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
6/17/16 9:50 am
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diakoneo |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | Ok, what is with the women's hair in the "pentecostal" churches? The fancy braiding. Don't they know that goes against New Testament scripture  |
It does? |
1 Timothy 2:9 talks about women not adorning themselves with " broidered hair." Soooo... |
I believe that talking about extravagant intertwining of gold an jewels within the hair, not simple braids. |
1 Timothy 2:9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
Point is: if one can make a rule about cutting hair, one also could make a similar rule regarding "fancy hair-dos"  |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
6/17/16 10:23 am
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Carolyn Smith |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | Ok, what is with the women's hair in the "pentecostal" churches? The fancy braiding. Don't they know that goes against New Testament scripture |
It does? |
1 Timothy 2:9 talks about women not adorning themselves with " broidered hair." Soooo... |
I believe that talking about extravagant intertwining of gold an jewels within the hair, not simple braids. |
I was surprised that this is all the Strong's says:
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/plegma.html
And lest we cast stones at the Pentecostals, might I remind you it hasn't been too many years ago we would have been shouting and dancing to the same tune, minus the Jesus Only references? Wait...what is that I hear? "The Church of God is right, hallelujah to the Lamb"...
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
6/17/16 11:08 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| diakoneo wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | Ok, what is with the women's hair in the "pentecostal" churches? The fancy braiding. Don't they know that goes against New Testament scripture |
It does? |
1 Timothy 2:9 talks about women not adorning themselves with " broidered hair." Soooo... |
I believe that talking about extravagant intertwining of gold an jewels within the hair, not simple braids. |
1 Timothy 2:9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
Point is: if one can make a rule about cutting hair, one also could make a similar rule regarding "fancy hair-dos" |
At least they attempted to make the hair cutting rule based on scripture (though a faulty interpretation, IMO). But saying that there is scripture against the braiding of hair is not a correct exegesis of scripture. The women in these videos certainly do not have IMO "elaborate hairstyles" in the context of Paul's day.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/17/16 11:11 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | sheepdogandy wrote: | John 17:1 ¶ Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
4 "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
6 ¶ "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
8 "For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 ¶ "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13 "But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 ¶ "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 ¶ "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 ¶ "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25 "O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.
26 "And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."
Slam dunk! |
Slam dunk for what, that the being known as God has multiple selves? In this prayer Jesus refers to the Father as the "only true God". Admit it or not this prayer of Jesus is very problematic for Trinitarians. |
No problem for me. |
Good. You agree with Jesus then that the Father alone is the one true God. That indeed rules out the possibility the Father is just one "person" of the one true God.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/17/16 11:13 am
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Da Sheik |
| So many thoughts, so little time LOL. They do seem excited though |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1865
6/17/16 11:14 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: |
And lest we cast stones at the Pentecostals, might I remind you it hasn't been too many years ago we would have been shouting and dancing to the same tune, minus the Jesus Only references? Wait...what is that I hear? "The Church of God is right, hallelujah to the Lamb"... |
Only difference, Carolyn, is that "The Church of God IS Right."
As fer at Jesus Only, Oneness gang, they AINT right. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
6/17/16 11:18 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Carolyn Smith wrote: |
And lest we cast stones at the Pentecostals, might I remind you it hasn't been too many years ago we would have been shouting and dancing to the same tune, minus the Jesus Only references? Wait...what is that I hear? "The Church of God is right, hallelujah to the Lamb"... |
Only difference, Carolyn, is that "The Church of God IS Right."
As fer at Jesus Only, Oneness gang, they AINT right. |
There is no such doctrine as "Jesus Only". It simply does not exist.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/17/16 11:23 am
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Carolyn Smith |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Carolyn Smith wrote: |
And lest we cast stones at the Pentecostals, might I remind you it hasn't been too many years ago we would have been shouting and dancing to the same tune, minus the Jesus Only references? Wait...what is that I hear? "The Church of God is right, hallelujah to the Lamb"... |
Only difference, Carolyn, is that "The Church of God IS Right."
As fer at Jesus Only, Oneness gang, they AINT right. |
But wouldn't it be just as wrong for us to glorify ourselves rather than the Lord?
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
6/17/16 11:28 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: |
There is no such doctrine as "Jesus Only". It simply does not exist. |
RS, we both know at "Jesus Only" is a common moniker for "Oneness theology." |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
6/17/16 11:28 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: |
There is no such doctrine as "Jesus Only". It simply does not exist. |
RS, we both know at "Jesus Only" is a common moniker for "Oneness theology." |
It is a horrible and inaccurate way to describe the Oneness position. It's one thing to disagree, but at least know what you are disagreeing with.
The term "Jesus Only" was originally a phrase invented by detractors to describe the mode of baptism (only in the name of Jesus), not as a way to describe the Oneness view of God. Anybody who has researched this will know this to be true.
As for the doctrine itself...throw me any weakness you see in the Oneness position and I will prove that the Trinity position is just as weak in the same area, guaranteed.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/17/16 12:01 pm
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diakoneo |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | | Ok, what is with the women's hair in the "pentecostal" churches? The fancy braiding. Don't they know that goes against New Testament scripture |
It does? |
1 Timothy 2:9 talks about women not adorning themselves with " broidered hair." Soooo... |
I believe that talking about extravagant intertwining of gold an jewels within the hair, not simple braids. |
1 Timothy 2:9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
Point is: if one can make a rule about cutting hair, one also could make a similar rule regarding "fancy hair-dos" |
At least they attempted to make the hair cutting rule based on scripture (though a faulty interpretation, IMO). But saying that there is scripture against the braiding of hair is not a correct exegesis of scripture. The women in these videos certainly do not have IMO "elaborate hairstyles" in the context of Paul's day. |
What were women's hairstyles like in Paul's day?
What would he deem as elaborate?
What would he say was modest? I think that being modest was the message Paul was trying to get at in the passage I sited.
Don't most oneness Pentecostals still teach against short hair, make-up and pants (trousers for those across the pond) on women? Is it for modesty they teach these things or is it their exegesis of the scripture? Is it the letter or the spirit?
As to the video. There seems to be a certain amount of pride...religious pride associated with many(not all) who call themselves Apostolic Pentecostal. I think this is a song of religious pride. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
6/17/16 12:20 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: |
There is no such doctrine as "Jesus Only". It simply does not exist. |
RS, we both know at "Jesus Only" is a common moniker for "Oneness theology." |
It is a horrible and inaccurate way to describe the Oneness position. It's one thing to disagree, but at least know what you are disagreeing with.
The term "Jesus Only" was originally a phrase invented by detractors to describe the mode of baptism (only in the name of Jesus), not as a way to describe the Oneness view of God. Anybody who has researched this will know this to be true.
As for the doctrine itself...throw me any weakness you see in the Oneness position and I will prove that the Trinity position is just as weak in the same area, guaranteed. |
So if a major distinction from other Pentecostal denominations is that you should be baptized in Jesus' name only, it seems quite accurate to refer to them as "Jesus only". Why make the distinction wordy - when it sums it up accurately. Trump would be proud.
Lying Ted
Crooked Hillary
Jesus only
The Head Ball Coach
We all know exactly who you are talking about when saying those words. 
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
6/17/16 12:48 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: |
There is no such doctrine as "Jesus Only". It simply does not exist. |
RS, we both know at "Jesus Only" is a common moniker for "Oneness theology." |
It is a horrible and inaccurate way to describe the Oneness position. It's one thing to disagree, but at least know what you are disagreeing with.
The term "Jesus Only" was originally a phrase invented by detractors to describe the mode of baptism (only in the name of Jesus), not as a way to describe the Oneness view of God. Anybody who has researched this will know this to be true.
As for the doctrine itself...throw me any weakness you see in the Oneness position and I will prove that the Trinity position is just as weak in the same area, guaranteed. |
So if a major distinction from other Pentecostal denominations is that you should be baptized in Jesus' name only, it seems quite accurate to refer to them as "Jesus only". Why make the distinction wordy - when it sums it up accurately. Trump would be proud.
Lying Ted
Crooked Hillary
Jesus only
The Head Ball Coach
We all know exactly who you are talking about when saying those words. |
| Quote: |
So if a major distinction from other Pentecostal denominations is that you should be baptized in Jesus' name only, it seems quite accurate to refer to them as "Jesus only". |
Again, Now the term is not used by detractors to describe the mode of baptism but rather to erroneously describe the Oneness view of God. It is usually accompanied by ludicrous statements like, "The Oneness view denies the existence of the Father and Holy Spirit" or some similar lie.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/17/16 1:20 pm
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sheepdogandy |
Read verse 21 again.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
6/17/16 1:52 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | I did not know "Jesus Only" was considered a derogatory term. To me, it's the same as "Apostolic" or "Oneness". My apologies... |
Agreed.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
6/17/16 2:11 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | | Read verse 21 again. |
What do you think that verse proves? You can't use it to prove that the father is only one "person" (self) of God because in verse 3 Jesus has already referred to the Father as the one true God....
| Quote: | | 3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. |
So again, verse 21 is irrelevant to my point.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/17/16 2:13 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | I did not know "Jesus Only" was considered a derogatory term. To me, it's the same as "Apostolic" or "Oneness". My apologies... |
Oh I do not care one way or another. I think the whole thing is rather silly. Both views profess a belief in one God. Both views express a belief that within the being of God there are distinctions. I think the Oneness view better describes God's unique existence, but it is not something I would ever break fellowship over.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/17/16 2:15 pm
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