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brotherjames

What has happened to the church? (lengthy diatribe)

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **6/1/16 3:15 pm**

In another thread Eddie posted a link to a church culture evaluation blog and it links to apps and programs you can subscribe to (another money maker for somebody) and implement in your church to see it grow and minister to families in small groups. All worthy things, I guess especially if you're not especially creative. I am NOT old fashioned, I have a very YOUNG church (see Marty Baker's thread) but a young numerical age but mature seekers after the Presence and Anointing of God.

We can disagree about some of what I believe re doctrine but I am overtly Pentecostal/Charismatic and ardently desire the move of God in our church. We are contemporary in our music, worship, design et al but we are more like Azusa St than North Pointe.

But here is my concern/complaint - the church for the most part has no anointing – so we substitute
counseling instead of deliverance
Programs instead of power
songs instead of worship
Lies instead of truth
platitudes instead of the word
Gimmicks instead of evangelism
comfort instead passion
Tv and apps instead of prayer
another book instead of personal revelation
Technique instead of the anointing,
and the latest church growth seminar instead of the Holy Spirit

and then we wonder why lives are not changed, families are still being destroyed, marriages are failing, disease is still rampant, and we look like and act like the rest of the world! And we wonder why no one wants what we have – because they already have it and it’s not bringing them any peace or hope!

We are building the house of God with cheap materials because the better costs more than we’re willing to pay, so we settle for the good because it is cheaper or free.

When we no longer expect the miracle working power of a supernatural God to intervene in our lives or churches; when there no longer is any room for the sovereign move of God's Spirit in our lives or in his church, when we begin to have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, when we're only paying lip service to power of the Spirit, (and good well-meaning churches, pastors and people go thru these phases) we need to recognize this cancer and cut it out!

If we grow complacent to the move of God's Spirit, or if we have become resistant to it and not desirous of it, if we have no hunger for the things of God but are merely going along, soon the church will be filled with people just like us, people who know nothing and expect nothing of the power of God.

There is a remedy. Paul had to remind Timothy to stir up the Gifts lying dormant in his being. We must raise the level of faith in ourselves and our church. If the bible study is boring and wed. night meetings seem draggy, maybe it's you that's draggy. God never called his ministers to be cheerleaders, Heb. 1:7 he called them to be flames of fire!!! Maybe we need to get pilot lights re-lit! We need to get alone with God and repent of where we are and seek a fresh anointing and God will give it to us! If we’re satisfied with where we are, shame on us! If we have to rely on mouthing someone else's program or revelation, shame on us!

Mk. 9:22 says if you can believe, all things are possible. Let dryness and deadness, doubt and deviousness (sin) be done away with today, let them be replaced with faith, holiness and the fire of the anointing of the Holy Ghost! Jesus has anointed you with the Holy Ghost and Power and sent you to preach the word in His power, to heal the sick, to raise the dead, to cause the blind to see, the deaf to hear, Jesus Christ is still the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. O Lord send the power just now to re-anoint, to kick out deadness, to fight the fight of faith, to live in holiness instead of sin, Lord, rekindle the fire of the Holy Ghost to see the New Testament church arise and go forth in the power of the Spirit, once again. Revive us o God!!

The anointing is the Holy Spirit of God. It is NOT some new website. We need Him to change our lives, to maintain faith in difficult times and to proclaim Jesus as Saviour, healer, and Lord to a world that is desperate to not just hear pretty words but to see a demonstration of the power of God, now!

I have taken those other classes, I am a qualified coach to church planters but we labor in vain if it is WE who are trying to build His house.

Sorry for the rant but it is really getting to me these days. What has happened to the Pentecostal Church?

sheepdogandy

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7307 **6/1/16 5:42 pm**

We are still here.

Check out the messages preached at our recent Camp meeting and you will discover what you are looking for.

www.spwc.church
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God

www.spwc.church

Preacher777

Brother James Made Some Great Points

Friendly Face Posts: 434 **6/2/16 1:30 pm**

I also have concerns about what is happening in the American church. I know of some wonderful exceptions to the overall lack of spiritual power and discernment. Several factors have hindered our churches from walking in what God has for believers. Most can be summed up in conforming to the standards of society to attract the world to church.

1. Humility in the ministry.

One cannot read the Bible without realizing that God resists the proud and gives grace, His anointing and spiritual power to the humble. My heart grieves when I see the way the anointing is being merchandised by Pentecostal ministers who feel the need to talk about the wonderful things they do for God to get a following and financial support. On the other hand, those who are not Spirit-filled often succumb to intellectual pride and natural business types of excellence in ministry to appeal to the human pride of life so prevalent in our society.

2. Quick success and materialism involving big houses, nice cars and other financial priorities.

We know the World War II generation built this country by hard work and delayed gratification. The majority of today's society do not want to work hard for years, live below their means and sacrifice for what they can have in 5-20 years years so why should we be surprised when an eternal perspective doesn't motivate the majority of people?

3. The lack of prayer and prayer meetings as a way of life in the American church culture.

Prayer is an example of doing something that may not give an instant flesh- emotional gratification as compared to many ministry programs, Christian sporting/recreational events, jamming music etc. Therefore, many in leadership are catering to the wants of flesh/emotionally led people rather than modeling and doing prayer with individuals and small groups.

4. Quick success and the glory/financial rewards of being a quick big success.

Most people who are in business or a profession that hires people will tell you that it is much harder today as compared to the past regarding the ability to find people who will spend years paying the price for promotions and business success. Unfortunately we often see this pattern in the ministry. Young people are shown patterns of success that involve looking up to those who built huge churches and ministries in a short time period.

What is the answer? I am not called to fix the church system. As Brother James mentioned, I attended many church growth meetings, ministry training events, coaching models etc. I left corporate America and a management position that involved taking $300,000 a year and much higher income people to 5 star restaurants etc. in major cities. I left that and have never been happier as I pastor a wonderful group of people who are excited about prayer meetings, Bible studies, personal evangelism and house to house ministry. Nothing is more satisfying for my wife and I than preaching, teaching, and leading by example in prayer meetings, Bible studies, a lifestyle below our means and living with an eternal perspective (walking daily in delayed gratification). What a freedom when my wife and I can be fulfilled by visiting the elderly widow in a trailer instead of having our self-worth defined by the important people we hang out with at the happening places!

wayne

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1274 **6/3/16 7:38 am**

Brother James and Preacher 777,
I really appreciate what you have posted. I have been pastoring now for over 8 years and I have learned some of what's right and what's wrong in pastoring a church. Unfortunately, I believe I may have fallen prey to some of what you have mentioned.
Simply put: People want to be loved. People want to be taught. People want to be helped with getting through the messes of life and they want a real pastor who will help them grow in their relationship with God.

Brother James, I am currently doing a study on "the Spirit of the Lord." and it has reaffirmed in me the importance of God moving on people and the impact He has on them more than books, counseling sessions, 12 step programs, etc. I am not knocking any of these things but more than anything we need to have God move on us. Every time I read of "the Spirit of the Lord" moving upon someone the change in the individual is amazing.

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **6/3/16 8:54 am**

I hear this question in a lot of areas. What has happened to my little town? What has happened to sports? What has happened to music? What has happened to.......most anything. Culture has changed almost everything. In most cases, we ain't going back to the way things used to be.

I was thinking about this very thing as I was driving to Campmeeting last night. I miss the days of the old Georgia tabernacle. The smell of the hamburgers being cooked at the concession stand. Many people sitting outside in lawn chairs. Being greeted by people like Lewis Stover and Doc Livingston directing traffic with their big flash lights. Church fans with the picture of the old COG logo. Bro Snoderly dancing. Playing my trumpet in the choir during the altar services that lasted a long time. Visiting with my close friends. Seeing people park their trailers and staying all week. Playing tether ball down by the dorms. I could write a book on these memories. It ain't coming back.

wayne

Eddie

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1274 **6/3/16 9:30 am**

"It aint coming back" What do you mean by this? Tether ball, the old style camp meetings, camping all week.......... what? I agree these things may not come back but the Spiritual atmosphere of these events will and are coming back.
I sense people are wanting more and are seeking after it. I still believe there will be another great stirring in the church and it will replace the memories of these times.

sheepdogandy

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7307 **6/3/16 10:02 am**

Eddie plays the trumpet?

Cool............... Cool

_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God

www.spwc.church

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **6/3/16 12:15 pm**

Wayne...I'm saying that the methods that were used aren't coming back. In no way am I implying that spiritual life is not coming back. When I see events like Winterfest and Passion with thousands of kids seeking God, I am confident that the next generation is in good shape spiritually. It's justbthatbthe methods will be different.

Andy...I began playing trumpet in the 4th grade and always played in church. I played in high school all 4 years, made all-state, had 2 scholarship offers and was Band Captain. I played a little in college and continue to play in church. One night, I was playing at North Cleveland and Carl Richardson took my trumpet away from me and started playing it. I had no clue he played.
Unfortunately, I haven't played in about 25 years.

brotherjames

Methodology is NOT sacred

brotherjames · Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **6/3/16 1:49 pm**

But I wasn't decrying methods. No one expects to keep things the way they were in the 50's & 60's. However, my complaints reflect the cheapening of the experience and make no mistake about it Pentecostals are people who are experiential and that has always been a criticism of us. But you can and should experience the presence of God and His Spirit. Instead, the church wants a new 12 step program to help them cope instead of seeking the one who has the answers. We won't spend the time and effort with God to see what He might want us to do rather we buy a new slick program off the shelf of the latest hip, cool ministry being exalted at the moment. I don't want to go back to the 50's maybe the 1900's though at least to imitate their passion for His Presence. I loved Azusa west a couple of months ago and pray it spreads across the globe. Actually I have found what I'm talking about in Africa and Latin America. It is only in the sophisticated American Church where it has been lost.

Ernie Long

Re: Methodology is NOT sacred

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1050 **6/4/16 12:10 pm**

sheepdogandy

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7307 **6/4/16 2:42 pm**

Eddie was BAND CAPTAIN!!!!!!

No way!

Very cool...................... Cool

So was I, Chattooga High School Class of 1975. Very Happy

_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God

www.spwc.church

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **6/4/16 5:35 pm**

Methocostal

Re: What has happened to the church? (lengthy diatribe)

Friendly Face Posts: 496 **6/8/16 1:36 pm**

Preach it Brother James! Wonderful.

Forgive me if I overlooked this, but what about "Prayer and Fasting". In my dad's day (primarily in the 1940's and 50's), much time was devoted to prayer and fasting. He did a full fast for (21 or 30 days, I can't recall which) with the results of a 2 or 3 year revival that went on till 2AM, 7 days a week with hundreds saved, the evidence of the Holy Ghost so strong a blue haze was present. I do think there was a correlation with the preceding prayer and fasting that took place. It began as a result of an audible voice from God to fast. I think he was already in a place where he could literally hear the voice of God, not simply waking up one morning and deciding to pray and fast. He was already in constant communion with God.

Today, we (and I am more guilty than most) can hardly muster a 5 minute prayer, with a one meal "fast". I'm not sure that "God moved" so much as men moved "to God". Getting "self" out of the way enables us to move.

Praise God, hack, hack Smile

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **6/8/16 3:36 pm**

I think there may be more people fasting than what is realized. It is a private act of faith. It is personal and is not recorded for the state paper.

Methocostal

Friendly Face Posts: 496 **6/9/16 9:07 am**

That is a good point and it isn't something people are supposed to brag about as it is private. I based my thoughts that I don't think I hear of prayer and fasting as I did years ago. At least from personal observation, I know the Churches I've attended (Pentecostal) do not have hours of intercessory prayer as they did. Today, when extended prayers occur, they are broken down into very small segments and even then people are often praying from a list so they can fill the hour or half hour allotted to them. Years ago, people prayed from their hearts and prayer was not difficult because they were already in communion with God. Similar with fasting.

I just don't hear it preached like it was, nor have I seen evidence that it is happening like it was. I think there is a direct correlation with the spirit filled services I saw as a child and services I see today.

Was some of that pure emotionalism, probably so. But a lot of it was real.

It is extremely rare that the Holy Spirit will "take over" a service or a message today. Years ago, that was not unusual.

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **6/9/16 11:51 am**

I only say this to make a point. 2 weeks ago, I fasted a day for my sister who has cancer. I have not told anybody but my wife and my sister. I just think that God's people are still fasting and praying.

Methocostal

Friendly Face Posts: 496 **6/9/16 12:43 pm**

I want to hope you are correct.

Praying for your sister.

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **6/10/16 9:26 am**

Thank you so much. She was a school teacher with a doctorate. Licensed minister in the COG with a women's prison ministry. I posted the article that I wrote for Evangel about my Dad's calling. It dealt with her healing when she was 2 years old. I am praying for another healing. She has so much more to offer.

Preacher777

Friendly Face Posts: 434 **6/10/16 8:18 pm**

Eddie, I pray your sister gets healed and has many more fruitful years of ministry.