Actscelerate.com

doyle

How much of the $900,000 stolen from COG, has been reimbursed?

Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 **5/20/16 9:17 am**

http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?p=741544#741544
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cogalltheway

900,000

Friendly Face Posts: 126 **5/20/16 12:33 pm**

Im hearing recently that it was actually more than $900,000...Any truth to that?

SouthGeorgiaBoy

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1037 **5/20/16 5:03 pm**

Why not call International Offices and ask the question. Why would anyone here know that answer?

Old Time Country Preacher

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **5/20/16 7:17 pm**

Nature Boy Florida

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **5/21/16 6:07 am**

c6thplayer1

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6385 **5/21/16 10:19 am**

They made a movie of it ;

Gone with the Wind....

Carolyn Smith

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **5/21/16 10:31 am**

It was reported at the time that he had to pay $100 fine and make restitution, which I took to meant they seized his property, given the fact it was a federal crime.

I'd be more interested in knowing if changes were made in protocols that would prevent its happening again.

There are reportedly people in Cleveland who read this board. That is likely why someone asked.

The man lost everything, his family and is in jail. Why drag it through the mud again?
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georgiapath

Acts-dicted Posts: 7604 **5/21/16 11:35 am**

Cleveland sure won't tell anything, they havn't admitted it was their fault. Guess they were all asleep on the job, the money just walked off.

They should have all resigned and gone home & back to sleep. Laughing

Nature Boy Florida

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **5/21/16 8:21 pm**

Carolyn Smith

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **5/21/16 11:35 pm**

Nature Boy Florida

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **5/22/16 7:30 am**

doyle

Why viewers ask questions here

Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 **5/22/16 12:09 pm**

One purpose of the board is so viewers can ask questions for which they have not received answers from "official sources." People who spend their life in support of the COG, time and funding, are not out-of-line when they want to know where funds they contribute, are going. In this case, nearly a million dollars is a lot to most people.

Those who spend their life within the COG, should NOT HAVE TO BEG for information from any elected official. The denomination could simply be forthcoming.

Why don't people call headquarters or talk to theri AB about such things? Because they are afraid such inquiriers will hurt their ministry within the COG - afraid it will stigmatize them as being a troublemaker. Would that happen in every case? Depends on who they are talking to at headquarters. All it takes is one person there or at the state office who don't like being questioned, and...you know the drill.

In most cases, the reason they bring a question to the board is because the info has been withheld from them. Asking questions in the COG, has often in the past met with hostility - especially financial questions. Is it better now? Some say it is, but that will depend on who you are talking to.
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The largest room in the world is the room for improvement.

c6thplayer1

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6385 **5/22/16 5:29 pm**

Our church has 100% financial transparency and anyone can and does ask questions about our finances in our business meetings. There are no sneers , objections , or pauses from our pastor or finance officer to any answer about finances. Because of this We have great income and no wants.

Any church or charitable organization that does not operate like this has a big problem and should not be supported with finances from individuals whom give in good faith. The people who support these organizations is why the organizations exist and should not be treated like 3rd class citizens.

ZKP

Member Posts: 34 **5/24/16 11:57 am**

Since our organization is so "transparent", as was mentioned in an earlier post, then why not just answer the question here on this site. I think there are many of us that are interested in what happened in this situation. My questions are, did our HQ receive any funds from the insurance company; two, has the purchasing and finance policies change as a result of this theft of COG members hard earned tithes and offerings; finally, did any internal investigation reveal that others were involved, or was it completely a crime committed by this one individual?

I think the organization has an obligation to address this, especially since the GA is coming soon. Maybe a letter posted on the COG website to the ministers and members would be an appropriate for HQ to address the outcome once and for all.

theedmister

Re: Why viewers ask questions here

Friendly Face Posts: 231 **6/9/16 2:16 pm**

Methocostal

My view

Methocostal · Friendly Face Posts: 496 **6/9/16 5:18 pm**

First, I am not COG and have no dog in the fight, but I do have views as one in the "public" sector, as a former high level finance person in a Church related organization, Certified Public Accountant, Certified Fraud Examiner, Certified Internal Control Auditor.

Aside from what I think would be a Biblical view for transparency, in my personal (not professional) opinion, the Church as a Tax exempt organization should be held to a higher standard than if it were "for profit". Moreover, there may be a fidicuiary responsibility to those that contributed funds to the Church. I would hope the Church ordered an audit to determine the extent of missing funds and to determine if others participated. If the person was charged, the courts would have required proof as to whether fraud occurred and the documented (provable) amount of fraud in order to weigh in the sentencing phase of trail and if restitution was ordered. From a fidicuiary viewpoint, an audit should have been performed to determine what controls were missing to allow such a fraud. If the Church has annual audits (and I hope they do), a CPA firm should be very cautious about issuing an opinion on the financial statements if a material (significant) fraud occurred. As such, the firm hopefully "covered their bases" by performing a more extensive review than under normal circumstances. If the firm did not do this, I would demand a new audit firm!!!!

If the Church has not been undergoing an annual audit, this event should certainly be the clarion call to begin!

The solution should be easy. Ask your members to demand to see the audit! If they refuse, report them to the IRS. I'm not sure the IRS would have an interest in whether a Church publically disclosed their financial statements...... Although I have worked in private not for profits (NFP), it was 30 years ago and I don't recall the reporting requirements for a Church related NFP. My experience for the last 30 years has been in Governmental NFP, which is entirely different from Private (in this case a Church) NFP.

Is the church a member of the National Religious Broadcasters group? If so, there may be transparency requirements to be a member.

These are nasty alternatives, but if they choose to fight with fire by not being open, return the favor. It is NOT morally right for them to hide their finances, at a minimum. Ministers should not have to endanger their career because the Church refuses to release information.

Contact the CPA firm that did subsequent audits. Contact the courts to see what is publically available (probably nothing).

It is utter nonsense that one would have to resort to such tactics to get information on what should be publically available. My two cents. I guarantee you can make HQ lives miserable if you use the right methods, thus they may feel compelled to do what is right.

In this case, the news media would likely be your "friend".

If the person was convicted without a co-conspirator, I am almost certain another collaborator was not involved. If I had been hired as an expert witness for defense councel, I would have tried to find documentation to point blame to another. If this was not done, either the defendant didn't have competent councel, or was unsuccessful in proving that aspect. That doesn't mean another person wasn't involved, but if the accused were aware of another fraudster, I can just about bet that defense tactic would have been used. It is also possible prosecution could have used a co-conspirator as a witness in order to receive reduced sentence or received immunity from prosecution.

Honestly, my gut feeling is there was probably not another participant. Collusion (two cooperating fraudsters) is fairly rare because of the natural tendancy for people not to bring up criminal activities to another person. Then, to suggest such a proposal to another in a Church organization is even more unlikely.

THE LOVE OF GOD

Friendly Face Posts: 387 **6/9/16 5:22 pm**

Transparency??? Cleveland should have been on top of this from the beginning. Don't we have a checks and balance system in operation? On a smaller level, the pastor should know when a thousand dollars in missing. In comparison, the treasurer at Cleveland should have watched this closely from the beginning.
I know a church in the south where new pastor came in and sold 2 church vans and some other stuff. He never turned the money over to the clerk. He spent it. True he did do some renovations BUT the money was never reported or turned in to the clerk. He bought 2 motorcycles. I am not saying he spent the money for the cycles,but, it left the door open for wondering. The clerk tried and tried to get the state officials to check into it and they accused the clerk of harrassement and came and made her leave the church. All she was trying to do was make him accountable. I know her personally and she was used to the previous pastor being transparent and open in all the finances. I am told that if the former pastor went to campmeeting or GA and didn't use all that was given to him, he gave it back to her to put back in the church funds.
Years ago, our former pastor would lay all the church books on the altar, tithe records and all at the annual business meeting and told the people they were welcome to look over them. People trusted the clerk and pastor and no one ever questioned him. He was a good pastored and still pastor emeritus at the church. His son is pastoring the check now and the church has been in existance since the early 70's.
All things should be done with complete honesty and answer any questions about he finances to any COG member.

uthdude2000

Re: Why viewers ask questions here

Friendly Face Posts: 218 **6/10/16 10:07 am**