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 Former General Overseer says Jesus DID Speak In Tongues |
doyle |
When he was General Overseer, Zeno C. Tharp from Florida, published a small book. It contains some excellent historical notes which vividly illustrate how "grass roots" the COG was in it's earlier days.
There are several quotes from Tharp, that in my opinion, illustrates how God used everyday (and by the world's standard, unqualified), people and raised them up to help move the COG forward in those days. Tharp wrote about the "Call" he received to preach. He said:
"I sold my hunting dogs and went into the ministry."
If I remember correctly, and I welcome historians to double check, Tharp at one time served as President of Lee College. In his book, he wrote that Jesus did Speak In Tongues because when on the cross He exclaimed, "Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani!"
He was partially correct. Jesus did speak in a Tongue, but many scholars believe that Tongue to have been the earthly language of Aramaic.
http://www.biblestudy.org/question/meaning-of-eli-eli-lama-sabachthani-spoken-by-jesus.html
Doyle
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3/22/16 7:45 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Sorry, Zeno, Jesus DID NOT speak in tongues per Acts 2:4/1 Cor 12/1 Cor 14. |
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3/22/16 10:06 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
That puts us in a quandary.
Believe Zeno or Ole Timer.
Hmmmm.
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3/22/16 12:16 pm
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| OTCP |
Aaron Scott |
| Then why did the writer feel the need to provide the interpretation to word that, in your view, were apparently well/easily understood? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
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3/22/16 12:19 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
It is a particular quandary indeed, NB. Former GO's or OTCP? Who ya gonna hang with? I hope the one what's right.
AJT said, and it was in the COG Minutes for years, when asked the question "Can a regenerated person sin?," Tomlinson said NO!
The ole timer says "YES!" |
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3/22/16 1:31 pm
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| Re: OTCP |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | | Then why did the writer feel the need to provide the interpretation to word that, in your view, were apparently well/easily understood? |
Aaron, son, please don't tell the ole timer that them passages like "eli eli lama sabacthini" that Jesus was speaking in tongues per Acts 2:4/1 Cor 12 & 14? Or that he was speaking in some "divine utterance" at all? |
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3/22/16 1:33 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | It is a particular quandary indeed, NB. Former GO's or OTCP? Who ya gonna hang with? I hope the one what's right.
AJT said, and it was in the COG Minutes for years, when asked the question "Can a regenerated person sin?," Tomlinson said NO!
The ole timer says "YES!" |
AJT might have thought they were asking for permission. There's also 1 John 3:9. |
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3/22/16 1:45 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | Who ya gonna hang with? I hope the one what's right.
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Yes - that is the question.
Is the old timer always right?
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3/22/16 2:16 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | It is a particular quandary indeed, NB. Former GO's or OTCP? Who ya gonna hang with? I hope the one what's right.
AJT said, and it was in the COG Minutes for years, when asked the question "Can a regenerated person sin?," Tomlinson said NO!
The ole timer says "YES!" |
AJT might have thought they were asking for permission. There's also 1 John 3:9. |
I'm with ya on the first one, Wyatt. That was some a them Calvinist pennycostals askin for permission to sin.
But 1 John 3:9 is no guarantee that a Christian can't sin; rather, that one's lifestyle will change from that of a sinner. My apologies to AJ for not agreein with the feller. |
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3/22/16 2:17 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| The KJV of 1 John 3:9 (the only translation AJT and the early CoG likely recognized as legitimate) is quite clear in saying that he that is born of God cannot sin. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
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3/22/16 4:05 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | The KJV of 1 John 3:9 (the only translation AJT and the early CoG likely recognized as legitimate) is quite clear in saying that he that is born of God cannot sin. |
Well, apparently AJ an them fellers didn't live up to their own beliefs. Seems like remember readin somethin bout some money gittin misappropriated, a denomination what split over it, mail gittin stole, etc. an all. |
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3/22/16 6:56 pm
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| Re: Former General Overseer says Jesus DID Speak In Tongues |
Link |
If someone has to interpret the Bible to say that Jesus spoke in tongues (supernaturally without knowing the language) or if it bothers that person too much that there is no record of Jesus doing so, that person probably puts way too much emphasis on speaking in tongues in their theology.
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3/22/16 8:05 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | The KJV of 1 John 3:9 (the only translation AJT and the early CoG likely recognized as legitimate) is quite clear in saying that he that is born of God cannot sin. |
Well, apparently AJ an them fellers didn't live up to their own beliefs. Seems like remember readin somethin bout some money gittin misappropriated, a denomination what split over it, mail gittin stole, etc. an all. |
I was simply pointing out that AJT gave what he no doubt believed to be a scriptural answer to the question. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
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3/22/16 10:25 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | The KJV of 1 John 3:9 (the only translation AJT and the early CoG likely recognized as legitimate) is quite clear in saying that he that is born of God cannot sin. |
Well, apparently AJ an them fellers didn't live up to their own beliefs. Seems like remember readin somethin bout some money gittin misappropriated, a denomination what split over it, mail gittin stole, etc. an all. |
I was simply pointing out that AJT gave what he no doubt believed to be a scriptural answer to the question. |
I aint fussin with ya, Wyatt. I'm just wonderin how that "no sin" part played out in matters of misappropriation, stolen mail, an such. |
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Posts: 15570
3/22/16 11:30 pm
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Mat |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | The KJV of 1 John 3:9 (the only translation AJT and the early CoG likely recognized as legitimate) is quite clear in saying that he that is born of God cannot sin. |
Well, apparently AJ an them fellers didn't live up to their own beliefs. Seems like remember readin somethin bout some money gittin misappropriated, a denomination what split over it, mail gittin stole, etc. an all. |
I was simply pointing out that AJT gave what he no doubt believed to be a scriptural answer to the question. |
I aint fussin with ya, Wyatt. I'm just wonderin how that "no sin" part played out in matters of misappropriation, stolen mail, an such. |
OTCP,
It depends on who you think was doing the lying, power-grabbing, "taking your brother to court" and such, as to who was sinning. Since AJT and those early pioneers were still trying their best to follow the Holy Spirit out of the darkness of denominationalism into the light of the Full Gospel message and the "Last Days Church of God", I would say their collective "spiritual" evolution and understanding came an amazingly long way for the time in which they lived.
We can see some of the "church teachings" were further developed or discarded within very short time frames (ie, "members not going to war" and "signs following" in regards to shake-handling). It is misplaced expectations to think that these pioneers should have fully understood and expressed orthodox Christian dogma found in the existing denominations of the day and at the same time incorporate the new and expanding Pentecostal and Holiness Movement that was opposed by those very same denominations.
I view those early pioneers as earnestly (even both sides of church splits in the 1920s), seeking to live their understanding of holiness and being open to the operation of the Spirit with out historic limitations found in denominations. It it they had subscribed to the Theologians of the day, the early pioneers would still be Baptist or Methodist, and would have never ventured out into the currents of the move of the Holy Spirit.
Your commitment to orthodoxy is notable, as is you willingness to "call out" those you deem have "miss-the-mark" of your take on orthodoxy. However, if Pentecostalism were to take your regressive position than the concussion is we all need to return to the denominations we emerged from. To "dissect" out the personal unction of the Spirit in the life of the church and the individual member is akin to the theology of Higher Criticism that AJT warned about in his book "Last Great Conflict".
If regression is the correct theological position, I know some Spirit-filled Anglicans who are great people, maybe I'll join of with them cause they got a lot of great theologians. You just tell me which denomination you have full confidence in so I can find another to belong to.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
3/23/16 8:11 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | The KJV of 1 John 3:9 (the only translation AJT and the early CoG likely recognized as legitimate) is quite clear in saying that he that is born of God cannot sin. |
Well, apparently AJ an them fellers didn't live up to their own beliefs. Seems like remember readin somethin bout some money gittin misappropriated, a denomination what split over it, mail gittin stole, etc. an all. |
I was simply pointing out that AJT gave what he no doubt believed to be a scriptural answer to the question. |
I aint fussin with ya, Wyatt. I'm just wonderin how that "no sin" part played out in matters of misappropriation, stolen mail, an such. |
"The courts exonerated Tomlinson of financial wrongdoing..." (From the article, "Tomlinson, Ambrose Jessup," New International Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements, Copyright 2002, 2003 by Stanley Burgess and Eduard M. Van der Maas, Zondervan, p.1145)
Regarding the developments which led to the split in 1922, Charles W. Conn, in _Like a Mighty Army_, does not ascribe sinful motives to Tomlinson, and relates that the economic recession of 1920-1921, along with the ill-conceived communal tithe plan and Tomlinson's incredibly overloaded level of responsibility leading him to desperately try to "rob Peter to pay Paul," were the factors which led to his removal. Conn states it was not wrongdoing but sloppy management that led to the upheaval.
Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 3/23/16 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Posts: 12817
3/23/16 10:13 am
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| Who's doing what OTCP? |
Mat |
MARCH 23, 2016
On Wednesday, March 23, 2016, General Overseer Sam Clements welcomed Dr. Mark Williams, general overseer of the Church of God, as well as Church of God Director of Communications Cameron Fished to the International Offices. The two met to discuss recent flooding that has impacted much of Mississippi and Louisiana. Although no Church of God of Prophecy congregations have reported damage from these floods, a number of Church of God congregations have been flooded and sustained significant damage. At the conclusion, Bishop Clements present Dr. Williams with a check from the Church of God of Prophecy to assist with relief and recovery efforts. Dr. Williams expressed his deep appreciate for the friendship of the Church of God of Prophecy and for the assistance being provided.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
3/23/16 1:06 pm
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| Re: Who's doing what OTCP? |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Mat wrote: |
MARCH 23, 2016
On Wednesday, March 23, 2016, General Overseer Sam Clements welcomed Dr. Mark Williams, general overseer of the Church of God, as well as Church of God Director of Communications Cameron Fished to the International Offices. The two met to discuss recent flooding that has impacted much of Mississippi and Louisiana. Although no Church of God of Prophecy congregations have reported damage from these floods, a number of Church of God congregations have been flooded and sustained significant damage. At the conclusion, Bishop Clements present Dr. Williams with a check from the Church of God of Prophecy to assist with relief and recovery efforts. Dr. Williams expressed his deep appreciate for the friendship of the Church of God of Prophecy and for the assistance being provided.
Mat |
Praise the Good Lord! |
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Posts: 15570
3/23/16 3:05 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | "rob Peter to pay Paul," |
Rob? Was they robbin? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/23/16 3:05 pm
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