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bonnie knox |
| Nature Boy, as to the "why now" question, I'm not sure if it's not just coincidental. Apparently, this is not mostly about Manning himself, but about how the U. of Tenn. handled sexual harassment. He is only one exhibit in the case, so to speak. |
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Posts: 14803
2/15/16 3:32 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Tennessee just wanted to make sure they kept the qb playing so he could lose to Florida all 4 years.
Thats the real crime. 
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Posts: 16646
2/15/16 6:02 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | Wait, you mean that in a public place (a college football training room), full of "upstanding" witnesses, that Manning was able to turn an exam being medical exam being performed by a woman (who was not a doctor by the way) into a full-on sexual assault, and no one called the police? What kind of people were they to stand and watch, or were they not only complacent to the assault, but co-conspirators in the event?
This whole thing seems as if they were waiting until Manning had more for them to "extort" or that someone, or some motive, is behind this on-slot. |
According to his affidavit, Malcolm Saxon, who was present at the incident said that he told associate trainer Mike Rolo the next day and Coach Fulmar a week or two afterwards.
"First, I have stuck to my same story throughout this drama. I told Mike Rollo the next day and Coach Fulmer a week or two afterwards. I had nothing to hide at that point and I have nothing to hide today. I have never been on Jamie's side or on your side (contrary to what the athletic department was telling you and telling her). I stuck to the truth and I lost my eligibility for it. My redshirt request sat on Mike Rollo's desk for months as the process was going forward. I'm not angry about it anymore, just getting a little tired of it!!
"Peyton, you messed up. I still don't know why you dropped your drawers. Maybe it was a mistake, maybe not. But it was definitely inappropriate. Please take some personal responsibility here and own up to what you did. I never understood why you didn't admit to it...." |
Quite a few people have stood up for her character, according to the article. And there were settlements and a confidentiality agreement, which Manning broke with his book. It doesn't sound like she went after him again at all. Sounds like a journalist spotted an opportune moment to get people to pay attention to "the rest of the story."
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
2/15/16 11:26 pm
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| In our age, nothing is put ... |
Mat |
In our age, nothing is put in the past and left there. The struggle I'm having is the timing and the changing expectations in places like locker rooms. In my lifetime we have gone from a stick enforcement of the separation of male and female locker rooms to full access to the male locker room by females based on their "profession". This is not a choice, like choosing a female doctor over a male doctor, it s a mandate by edict. Now I can not speak for the female locker room (a place I dreamed about as a teenager), I do not know what the privacy issues are. I do know that inappropriate locker room activity, which in the past would have been the responsibility of the coach to correct is now moved into the courtroom as a legal matter.
So, I must ask, was their physical contact between Manning's butt and the plaintiffs face? Had she seen Manning's butt on occupations prior to the one in question? Was it her practice to violate the players privacy without regard to their personal wishes? Did she ever date or have sexual contact with any of the players (by the way, if she did, she was in violation of ethics standards)? What role does the University have in creating this situation? Is the same access given to the female locker rooms and players based on profession for men?
Since this being cast as a sexual assault (using today's standards), we must asked the difficult questions, such as, at any time did the alleged victim expose her self to the players? Had she ever attend an event outside the locker room, such as a party, in which alcoholic was consumed by the minors presence, including Manning?
Now lets focus on the writer of the article. What are his quantification for being a journalist? Was he ever guilty of any sexual assaults in college (if he went to college) or at anytime in his life? Was he ever physically assaulted by a football player? Was he ever accused of or found to have engaged in plagiarism? What race is he? What political associations does he have? What college football team and pro team does he support (could he be a Gator fan?)?
So it goes, because in today's cultural of sexual and racial relationships, you have got to fight back and trust no one. If the Manning's character is open to all questions, so are the accusers.
As you recall, this all came back out due to a Title IX lawsuit against the UT in which the plaintiffs alleged that there has been a history of systemic discrimination against women at the university. Title IX has done a great deal of good for women's sports. However, one of the goals is to make staff positions gender blind while requiring the school to have just as many female student in the athletic department as males and equal amounts of money and scholarships be available. In many schools this has resulted in men's programs being dropped. Football, at least on the upper levels, with all its male scholarships has been a target for some time. However, since most football programs make money (which is then used to subsidized other sport, including women's) it has survived.
How we see in the media and courts players wanting to be paid, concerns about concussions, access for women as coaches, broader castors and management positions, and the past wrong doings of players never being put in the past. I feel that there is a real effort to bring down the game because it is a bastion of success based on skills and physical ability that is male dominated. College and Pro football will never be like "co-ed softball teams" unless the weak can use the law to bring down the strong.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
2/16/16 8:49 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | In our age, nothing is put in the past and left there. |
If it's true that the settlement required Manning to sign a confidentiality agreement and then he dredged it up in his book, I wouldn't feel too sorry for him about the past not being left in the past. |
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Posts: 14803
2/16/16 9:02 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | This is not a choice, like choosing a female doctor over a male doctor, it s a mandate by edict. |
I think participating in sports is actually still a choice. |
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2/16/16 9:03 am
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bonnie knox |
This is hilarious. The article writer could be as biased as the day is long, but that will not change the facts of what happened. I would say his bias does indeed show through in parts of the article, but I don't discount him because he took himself seriously enough to provide documentation for what he is writing about.
And the questions about the character of Jamie Naughright remind me of Paula Jones being called trailer trash. Trashing a woman who has alleged sexual harassment or assault has been par for the course for ages.
| Quote: | | Now lets focus on the writer of the article. What are his quantification for being a journalist? Was he ever guilty of any sexual assaults in college (if he went to college) or at anytime in his life? Was he ever physically assaulted by a football player? Was he ever accused of or found to have engaged in plagiarism? What race is he? What political associations does he have? What college football team and pro team does he support (could he be a Gator fan?)? |
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Posts: 14803
2/16/16 9:33 am
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Mat |
| bonnie knox wrote: | This is hilarious. The article writer could be as biased as the day is long, but that will not change the facts of what happened. I would say his bias does indeed show through in parts of the article, but I don't discount him because he took himself seriously enough to provide documentation for what he is writing about.
And the questions about the character of Jamie Naughright remind me of Paula Jones being called trailer trash. Trashing a woman who has alleged sexual harassment or assault has been par for the course for ages.
| Quote: | | Now lets focus on the writer of the article. What are his quantification for being a journalist? Was he ever guilty of any sexual assaults in college (if he went to college) or at anytime in his life? Was he ever physically assaulted by a football player? Was he ever accused of or found to have engaged in plagiarism? What race is he? What political associations does he have? What college football team and pro team does he support (could he be a Gator fan?)? |
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You have a presupposition that a woman claiming she has been sexually assaulted is telling the truth and that she is being factual. To me that is a gender bias of the past. Men can no longer afford to buy in to that, we must be ready to fight as hard as we can to protect ourselves. As an example, when I was a young man, if male had sex with a female and she became pregnant I believed it was his "duty" as a man to marry her and be a father to that child. I no long believe this. Now I would tell the young man to get a paternity test. Times have changed.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
2/16/16 9:42 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | You have a presupposition that a woman claiming she has been sexually assaulted is telling the truth and that she is being factual. |
If you are saying that I think it is likely that Jamie Naughright actually was violated by Peyton Manning, that would be correct; but if you are saying that I automatically believe any woman who claims to have been sexually assaulted, that is a gross mischaracterization (and I love the little jab insinuating that I'm out of date). |
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2/16/16 9:56 am
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Carolyn Smith |
| Mat wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | Oh, good grief! It was not a mooning. You don't have to call Jamie Naughright a lady if you don't want to, but apart from Manning, the athletes said she was very professional in her job and never vulgar in speech as he claimed she was.
| Quote: | | One of the articles referred to the "victim" of the "Manning Mooning" (I like the alliteration of that) as a "lady". Such gender privilege titles are sexiest and have no place in sports. I include the "Lady Vols" in this rant! After all, you may be born a woman or a man (or something in between nowadays), but few women should women be allowed to use a title that requires special treatment from men? |
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That's what it comes down to - "he said, she said", but I am not going to give her any brakes because she is a women. She touched him first when he was forced to be examined by her.
Mat |
If you read the article, she was the medical director for the team and a respected staff member who had been there many years. This was also way before anyone had coined the phrase "gender equality." She was not forcing herself on Manning. She was doing her job, examining his foot to see if there was a stress fracture.
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
2/16/16 10:23 pm
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Mat |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | Mat wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | Oh, good grief! It was not a mooning. You don't have to call Jamie Naughright a lady if you don't want to, but apart from Manning, the athletes said she was very professional in her job and never vulgar in speech as he claimed she was.
| Quote: | | One of the articles referred to the "victim" of the "Manning Mooning" (I like the alliteration of that) as a "lady". Such gender privilege titles are sexiest and have no place in sports. I include the "Lady Vols" in this rant! After all, you may be born a woman or a man (or something in between nowadays), but few women should women be allowed to use a title that requires special treatment from men? |
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That's what it comes down to - "he said, she said", but I am not going to give her any brakes because she is a women. She touched him first when he was forced to be examined by her.
Mat |
If you read the article, she was the medical director for the team and a respected staff member who had been there many years. This was also way before anyone had coined the phrase "gender equality." She was not forcing herself on Manning. She was doing her job, examining his foot to see if there was a stress fracture. |
Again, its what shapes the writers view point. I see an older women who choice to be in a locker/training room with young men. Now, if the facts are presented in court and Manning was found to be guilty of exposing himself to her in a locker room setting, than he is guilty. I was wondering just how he stuck his bare butt in her face if he was on the training table. Did the report say he physically pulled her down or forced her into a position in which he could position himself for this action? I may have missed the assault before the exposing part.
Did the report address the issues of this older, professional, woman who held a position of authority and power over these young boys ever dating or have sex with any of the players? Or did she engage in sex with any of the female basketball players, as was alleged?
My point of all this is beyond the Manning case. I think men must rethink how, when and if they interact with women in all aspects of life (work, church, dating, sports, etc). The laws and media favor women as the victim and cast men as the aggressor. At the same time the country is focused on equal access for women to all positions and professions. So now women will be in combat with men, but the military will still have to provide privacy for women. I don't see how that works.
In 1973 when I was at MCRD San Diego, the recruits slept in the same squad bay, used the same head (no doors) showered so packed together we had to take turns getting under the shower head, stripped down the same for water survival training and used the same latrines in the the field. We carried the same weapon and field gear, ran the same distance and climbed the same height ropes and walls. In close combat training we fought the next man up no matter the size.
With women being included in a rifle company, will they have a lighter rifle or shorter wall? Will they learn to get their shower in no matter how crowded it is? Will they learn to go to the head no matter who is around or to fight the next man up no matter the size?
Yes, I have a problem with where this nation is going on issues of gender. Men are in danger because at the same time there is a push for gender equity there are more and more ways a man can be deemed guilty of sexual harassment. So which is it, women are equal or women need protection?
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
2/17/16 7:36 am
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bonnie knox |
Mat, your concerns seem to be that a man might be accused of sexual harassment for something that is not actually inappropriate.
But is it necessary to cast aspersions?
Most of the time Dr. Naughright was at UT, she was either engaged or married.
Who is alleging that she had sex with the female basketball players?
She was 27, give or take a year, and Manning was 20 at the time of the incident. Is anyone saying she took advantage of being older than these "young boys" to do anything inappropriate? Is anyone saying an imbalance of power caused her to do anything inappropriate?
| Quote: | Did the report address the issues of this older, professional, woman who held a position of authority and power over these young boys ever dating or have sex with any of the players? Or did she engage in sex with any of the female basketball players, as was alleged?
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Last edited by bonnie knox on 2/17/16 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Posts: 14803
2/17/16 1:03 pm
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Mat |
| bonnie knox wrote: | Matt, your concerns seem to be that a man might be accused of sexual harassment for something that is not actually inappropriate.
But is it necessary to cast aspersions?
Most of the time Dr. Naughright was at UT, she was either engaged or married.
Who is alleging that she had sex with the female basketball players?
She was 27, give or take a year, and Manning was 20 at the time of the incident. Is anyone saying she took advantage of being older than these "young boys" to do anything inappropriate? Is anyone saying an imbalance of power caused her to do anything inappropriate?
| Quote: | Did the report address the issues of this older, professional, woman who held a position of authority and power over these young boys ever dating or have sex with any of the players? Or did she engage in sex with any of the female basketball players, as was alleged?
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Bonnie, if the roles were reversed, a 27 year old male trainer in the female training room were to be mooned by a 20 year old female, would he have grounds to claim sexual harassment and receive a settlement from the university? Like Clinton (the President, not his wife who wants to be president), the wrong was that he was in the position of power over the female intern (who mooned him by the way). When it comes to sexual harassment, the presupposition is that the male is always in aggressor. If the trainer were a confident profession why did she not use the situation as a teachable moment?
To bad there was not any adults in the room.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
2/17/16 2:12 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Sorry man. She was not alone with an athlete - it was a locker room with plenty of folks there.
Any male or female knows not to be alone one on one - because any accusation can be made.
But with a room full of witnesses - there is probably be a consensus of what happened.
Guess we will see how Title 9 works out for Tennessee.
Personally, I can't ever remember having the urge to moon a friend while I was being examined by a trainer - but Peyton is just special I guess.
If the urge hits - you must moon immediately - no matter if you whack someone with other parts of your body - you got the mooning completed - that is what is important. 
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Posts: 16646
2/17/16 2:58 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Mat wrote: | | This whole thing seems as if they were waiting until Manning had more for them to "extort" or that someone, or some motive, is behind this on-slot. |
It's the University of Tennessee that is having a suit brought against it, not Manning. The situation with Manning is just an example cited in the case. Also, UT is the one who paid in the settlement in 1997, not Manning.
Additionally Dr. Jamie Naughright is not a plaintiff in the current case against UT. According to CNN, the current suit "centers on five alleged rapes of female students reported between 2013 and 2015." |
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Posts: 14803
2/17/16 7:32 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | Bonnie, if the roles were reversed, a 27 year old male trainer in the female training room were to be mooned by a 20 year old female, would he have grounds to claim sexual harassment and receive a settlement from the university? |
Your premise that this was merely a mooning makes your question not relevant to the incident.
| Quote: |
Like Clinton (the President, not his wife who wants to be president), the wrong was that he was in the position of power over the female intern (who mooned him by the way). |
This is getting tedious and far afield. Clinton was impeached on 2 charges: perjury and obstruction of justice.
| Quote: | | When it comes to sexual harassment, the presupposition is that the male is always in aggressor. |
Not true. |
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Posts: 14803
2/17/16 7:48 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | If the trainer were a confident profession why did she not use the situation as a teachable moment? |
If a 20 yr old male athlete sticks his genitals on a 27 yr old female trainer's face and head, what do you consider an appropriate response? How do you propose she should have made the situation a teachable moment?
I can't believe you are actually asking that question. |
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Posts: 14803
2/17/16 7:55 pm
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Mat |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | If the trainer were a confident profession why did she not use the situation as a teachable moment? |
If a 20 yr old male athlete sticks his genitals on a 27 yr old female trainer's face and head, what do you consider an appropriate response? How do you propose she should have made the situation a teachable moment?
I can't believe you are actually asking that question. |
I would say you are taking as a statement of fact an account that was developed by the lawyers who were in the employ of the woman. It is in their best interest to portray the event in its most outrageous terms. Until there is a court case, before a judge, it is still "she said, he said". Perhaps Manning is guilty, but what if its like the story in Rollin Stone Mag about the rape at UVA? Creative writing.
Mat
PS One of the broader problems related to college and university crimes of all sorts is the campus police who operate separate from the real police dept. If there is a sex crime (or any crime) it should be reported to the real police. Colleges and universities police can not be trusted to investigate or enforce the law from either side of the issue, since they work for the campus. I don't understand why, if this woman was assaulted, she did not file charges and was willing to settle out of court for money. I would love to see those drunken frat boys and girls arrested and put in jail. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
2/17/16 8:24 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | I would say you are taking as a statement of fact an account that was developed by the lawyers who were in the employ of the woman. It is in their best interest to portray the event in its most outrageous terms. |
Her boss, associate trainer Mike Rolo (the one who repeatedly used a vulgar slur as Naughright's nickname until he was forced to stop it) said in the deposition that he didn't believe Naughright would have reacted the way she did in response to a simple mooning. He also admitted that he was the one who came up with the word mooning to describe the incident.
I'm not saying my judgment is foolproof; I'm saying I believe what has been described in that court document seams to me very likely to have been the way it happened. |
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Posts: 14803
2/17/16 8:42 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | court document |
* statement written by the attorneys of a litigant
It's weird how the document they wrote and submitted so strongly supports their case. Welp, case closed! No need for any further inquiry or to hear a statement of facts from the accused.
Last edited by Dave Dorsey on 2/17/16 8:52 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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2/17/16 8:50 pm
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