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Dean Steenburgh |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Your argument seems to amount to the following, Dean:
"If it's legal, it's morally permissible."
I'm just using that same logic to show how wrong your logic is. |
And this is why you keep missing the point I guess.
If prostitution were legal I wouldn't advocate benefitting from it.
Weed is legal but I would turn every single drug dealer down with their tithe in hand.
Lotto is legal & most folks don't have an issue with it - in fact they applaud it's benefit to the schools. I voted against it.
Lotto appears harmless even though it's related to gambling in terms of perception.
You appear to want to paint everything black or white & I'm sure you've been told that a time or two before.
You have drawn multiple analogies from prostitution to drugs sales to try to align playing the lotto & you have only vaguely skirted the subject with scripture by calling it greed & idolatry, but that's your opinion.
The fact is nobody on this board who is a legit pastor would ever advocate taking money in the form of tithe from a hooker, drug dealer or any other type of vice participant.
You & I both know that if someone dropped a tithe check in the plate at your church that was from a major lotto win, you would probably deposit it into your church bank account.
Why QW? Why would it be easier to do that than the other illegal things you've tried to align me with or suggest I condone?
Answer: Because most people don't see lotto as a form of gambling. I see it as a form of gambling & we all know your point of view.
Regardless of the legalism here the question is Should Christians buy lottery tickets?
You somehow want to suggest that lotto ticket buyers are guilty of the same kinds of things as prostitution or drug dealing but you're over-reaching.
Don't buy them QW & I've already told you I don't advocate buying them either.
I just hope for your sake that nobody drops a 6 figure check in your offering tomorrow who has just won a big lottery tonight.
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_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
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Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
1/16/16 10:00 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| diakoneo wrote: | | Dave Dorsey wrote: | | Tom Sterbens wrote: | | Stock market???? |
All investing is motivated by greed and covetousness.
Buying low and selling high is a dishonest scale. |
Yeah
If a certain MBT was around aka LC he could set us all straight on that.  
I really like him even if he is wrong (as is Tom Sterbens here) on some things. |
I was agreeing with Tom, for the record. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
1/16/16 10:21 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | The fact is nobody on this board who is a legit pastor would ever advocate taking money in the form of tithe from a hooker, drug dealer or any other type of vice participant. |
Are you sure about that? I wouldn't think most pastors try to determine where the tithes come from. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/16/16 10:49 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
Dean,
No, I have never once argued that prostitution and gambling are somehow morally equivalent. What I have instead responded to was the ridiculous insinuation, by you, that if I were to receive a donation from a gambler's winnings, that would somehow make me a hypocrite, since I am morally opposed to gambling. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
1/16/16 10:53 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| If not for the possibility of winning unearned money, no one would ever buy a lottery ticket. |
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Posts: 12817
1/16/16 10:57 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | preachers are gonna do things that we don't agree with. |
Yep, I guess its like em preachers runnin around toutin worthless doctorates, they gonna do stuff we don't agree with. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/16/16 11:10 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Dean,
No, I have never once argued that prostitution and gambling are somehow morally equivalent. What I have instead responded to was the ridiculous insinuation, by you, that if I were to receive a donation from a gambler's winnings, that would somehow make me a hypocrite, since I am morally opposed to gambling. |
QW are you on medication? I never said you were arguing that the moral equivalent.
And when did i insinuate the hypocrisy? I flat out told you you would, i din't insinuate it ...it's you calling it hypocrisy not me.
If you're standing on such high moral ground then you'll have to be a watch dog for every dollar entering your church if hypocrisy is the issue here. In fact, you can't even engage in many forms of retirement because they're based on wall street averages.
How many times do you need to hear it, I'm just as opposed to gambling as you are but I'm not going to throw stones at someone who buys a lotto ticket but I guess you would.
Geesk QW you're the one who brought up the analogies of prostitution & drug dealers as though they're the same level of sin as a lotto winner.
Get off the high horse dude!
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
1/16/16 11:11 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | preachers are gonna do things that we don't agree with. |
Yep, I guess its like em preachers runnin around toutin worthless doctorates, they gonna do stuff we don't agree with. |
I told you already I can't stop that machine over there across town.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
1/16/16 11:12 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | The fact is nobody on this board who is a legit pastor would ever advocate taking money in the form of tithe from a hooker, drug dealer or any other type of vice participant. |
Are you sure about that? I wouldn't think most pastors try to determine where the tithes come from. |
I don't know you Bonnie & you don't know me, but I know every family in my church.
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_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
1/16/16 11:15 pm
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bonnie knox |
But do you know every pastor on this board? (You did say "fact." I don't think that word means what you think it means.)
| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | The fact is nobody on this board who is a legit pastor would ever advocate taking money in the form of tithe from a hooker, drug dealer or any other type of vice participant. |
Are you sure about that? I wouldn't think most pastors try to determine where the tithes come from. |
I don't know you Bonnie & you don't know me, but I know every family in my church.
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[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/16/16 11:18 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | preachers are gonna do things that we don't agree with. |
Yep, I guess its like em preachers runnin around toutin worthless doctorates, they gonna do stuff we don't agree with. |
I told you already I can't stop that machine over there across town.
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Lord, use Pastor Dean to demolish the forces a evil over there at the ULC. Use him to disrupt and destroy that copier that mills out fake degrees ever single day. Rid Modesto of this plague. Amen! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/16/16 11:20 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Ole Timer, did you just make a positive confession? |
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Posts: 14803
1/16/16 11:24 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Now Ole Timer, you either believe what you prayed in faith WILL BE DONE or else you are just gambling by praying, is that right? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/16/16 11:25 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
QW said:
| Quote: | | The logic you are trying to use is like saying, "Well, if a weed dealer wanted to donate to the church, that would in itself justify selling weed." It's just absurd. |
Again, you misunderstood me. I never used that intent, you created this concept as an analogy.
| Quote: | | 1. Even if a church took a donation from a drug dealer, that would in no way justify dealing drugs. |
Never said it did & I agree with the assertion.
| Quote: | | 2. By the same token, if a lottery winner wanted to give to the church, that would in no way justify gambling. |
Never once did i say it would endorse or justify gambling. I merely asked you what you would do if you were given a tithe from the winnings & you still haven't responded ...typical cut & run!
| Quote: |
3. Greed is never justifiable, under any circumstances. |
Couldn't agree more!
Question: when a guy walks in to his favorite stop-n-rob & buys a lotto ticket on the way to bible study is he acting in greed? Is this your point, observation, fact, opinion ...what?
Because I think this is where you & I split the difference.
I don't think Joe lunch bucket is driven by greed just because he plays a lotto game when it hits the $1.5 Billion dollar mark. I think he's goofing off & in a humorous way throwing away a couple bucks.
Based on your examples & analogies it's as though the guy is on a slippery slope to hell, I just think he needs a little adjustment on his rationale.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
1/16/16 11:28 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Now Ole Timer, you either believe what you prayed in faith WILL BE DONE or else you are just gambling by praying, is that right? |
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
1/16/16 11:29 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | In my opinion if you cash the check you have condoned the behavior that brought the tithe. |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | 2. By the same token, if a lottery winner wanted to give to the church, that would in no way justify gambling |
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| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | Never once did i say it would endorse or justify gambling. |
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[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/16/16 11:32 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
| I've not read any of this and I really don't care what anybody thinks about me buying a lottery ticket unless it makes a difference what I care about all of the other ways that they waste money. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
1/16/16 11:44 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
Dean,
I have never once, in this thread or anywhere else, said or implied that buying one lottery ticket means one is on a slippery slope to Hell. That is simply your assumption. I have also never once said or implied that gambling is equivalent to prostitution or drug dealing. Again, simply your own assumption. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
1/16/16 11:45 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | | I've not read any of this and I really don't care what anybody thinks about me buying a lottery ticket unless it makes a difference what I care about all of the other ways that they waste money. |
So we can agree that wasting money is wrong, right? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
1/16/16 11:49 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | In my opinion if you cash the check you have condoned the behavior that brought the tithe. |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | 2. By the same token, if a lottery winner wanted to give to the church, that would in no way justify gambling |
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| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | Never once did i say it would endorse or justify gambling. |
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I'm not saying the lotto ticket buyer is justified for buying a ticket Bonnie.
I'm saying that if someone states that lotto ticket buyers are gambling & it is aligned with prostitution & drug dealing and we cash their tithe check, we then are in essence condoning (not justifying) their actions.
I'm not going to condone a behavior that I abhor. Either state your against it all (gambling in every form) or slice out the ones you condone. It can't be done.
I'm gonna state for the record if the Calif. lotto winner walks into FCC in the morning & writes a big fat tithe check I'm not gonna have the chance to turn it down w/out a mutiny from leadership.
About 3 years ago our state camp meeting was all a buzz about a guy in SoCal who had a member win the lotto & he gave a big fat tithe check to that CoG. They made it sound like it came from heaven as they expressed such joy.
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
1/16/16 11:54 pm
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