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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | Stephen R Miller – The New American Commentary: Daniel
Keil/Delitzsch – Commentary on the Old Testament |
Stephen Miller writes of Chapter 1, Daniel proposed to the “guard whom the chief official had appointed over” them that they might have an alternative diet for a ten-day period. Miller, S. R. (1994). Daniel (Vol. 18, p. 69). Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers.
Referencing food that was ceremonially unclean, the partaking of the food brought to them from the king’s table was to them contaminating, because forbidden by law; not so much because the food was not prepared according to the Levitical ordinance, or perhaps consisted of the flesh of animals which to the Israelites were unclean, for in this case the youths were not under the necessity of refraining from the wine, but the reason of their rejection of it was, that the heathen at their feasts offered up in sacrifice to their gods a part of the food and the drink, and thus consecrated their meals by a religious rite; whereby not only he who participated in such a meal participated in the worship of idols, but the meat and the wine as a whole were the meat and the wine of an idol sacrifice, partaking of which, according to the saying of the apostle (1 Cor. 10:20f.), is the same as sacrificing to devils. Their abstaining from such food and drink betrayed no rigorism going beyond the Mosaic law. Keil, C. F., & Delitzsch, F. (1996). Commentary on the Old Testament (Vol. 9, pp. 539–540). Peabody, MA: Hendrickson.
Bold/Italics mine!
Only had time, Tom, to check two a the sources ya listed, in neither a which could I find a reference to the Daniel 1 diet as fasting. Could ya help the ole timer here an provide reference where Miller/Keil/Delitzsch used the term "fast?" |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/4/16 10:58 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
To ma fellow posters, please be aware that the ole timer aint demeanin nobody (preacher/parishioner) for wantin to do anything what will draw them closer to God. Not at all.
At the ole timers church, we practice fastin. For a couple a years we done a 21-day fast in January, but I didn't call it a Daniel fast. We've done 3-day fasts, one day a month fast for a whole year, etc.
Ever time we do a fast or I address the subject, I emphatically always state several things:
1. The fast is tween you an the good Lord. Let him lead ya in what ya do.
2. You fast as your health permits. I never place a guilt trip on folk. Some diabetics can't miss a meal. I've even gone so far as to tell folk if all they could fast was 2-hours (like in the case a diabetics), the good Lord would honor it.
3. The ultimate end of a fast is to draw ya closer to the Lord spiritually.
DISCLAIMER: You just aint gonna hear the ole timer telling folk that eatin a Big Mac while leavin off the fries is fastin. Nope, ats a Daniel Diet, that aint fastin. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/4/16 11:07 am
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| It's hard |
bigdubbz |
to have a conversation with anyone who refuses to listen/read...
Daniel 10/TEN is the scripture where Daniel fasted for 21 days...and where the term "Daniel Fast" should come from...
Any attempt to not let the scripture speak plainly and for itself, to try and say that it's not a fast is silly, petty, ludicrous and a waste of time...
I'm not sure why people are upset that churches all over the world are practicing a 21-day fast anyway...I'm pretty sure communities of Jesus-followers seeking God in anyway in an extra and intentional way is a good thing...Get over the semantics... |
Friendly Face
Posts: 445
1/4/16 2:33 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Tom Sterbens wrote: | Stephen R Miller – The New American Commentary: Daniel
Keil/Delitzsch – Commentary on the Old Testament |
Stephen Miller writes of Chapter 1, Daniel proposed to the “guard whom the chief official had appointed over” them that they might have an alternative diet for a ten-day period. Miller, S. R. (1994). Daniel (Vol. 18, p. 69). Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers.
Referencing food that was ceremonially unclean, the partaking of the food brought to them from the king’s table was to them contaminating, because forbidden by law; not so much because the food was not prepared according to the Levitical ordinance, or perhaps consisted of the flesh of animals which to the Israelites were unclean, for in this case the youths were not under the necessity of refraining from the wine, but the reason of their rejection of it was, that the heathen at their feasts offered up in sacrifice to their gods a part of the food and the drink, and thus consecrated their meals by a religious rite; whereby not only he who participated in such a meal participated in the worship of idols, but the meat and the wine as a whole were the meat and the wine of an idol sacrifice, partaking of which, according to the saying of the apostle (1 Cor. 10:20f.), is the same as sacrificing to devils. Their abstaining from such food and drink betrayed no rigorism going beyond the Mosaic law. Keil, C. F., & Delitzsch, F. (1996). Commentary on the Old Testament (Vol. 9, pp. 539–540). Peabody, MA: Hendrickson.
Bold/Italics mine!
Only had time, Tom, to check two a the sources ya listed, in neither a which could I find a reference to the Daniel 1 diet as fasting. Could ya help the ole timer here an provide reference where Miller/Keil/Delitzsch used the term "fast?" |
When you get to Chapter 10 - let us know what they think about that fast.
Chapter 1 is something else entirely - perhaps you can get it its own thread...if you can pull away long enough from some lame cheap doctorate posting.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
1/4/16 2:58 pm
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| Re: It's hard |
bonnie knox |
I listen/read fairly well. Do you?
I'm not sure who started the fad of the Daniel Fast, but I know Jentezen Franklin has written some books on fasting and has touted the Daniel Fast. Here is a quote from his book.
"Instead, Daniel suggested a ten-day fast of nothing but vegetables and water to prove to the steward that he and his three friends would be in better condition than the others who ate from the king's table." Here JF is referring to Daniel ch. 1 and he is calling that a fast.
The fact of the matter is that the Bible doesn't refer to what Daniel did in ch. 1 or ch. 10 as a fast. As you say, let the scripture speak for itself. As Tom pointed out, some people refer to what Daniel did in ch. 10 as fasting, but as I pointed out, the "Daniel Fast" as churches are doing is not JUST taken from ch. 10. It is a combination of ch. 1, ch. 10, and the verse in the NT.
Now, if you feel led to 3 weeks of mourning and eating no pleasant bread and not anointing yourself, that is quite one thing. It is another to tell your congregation what they may and may not eat for 3 weeks based on scriptures picked here and there at random.
| bigdubbz wrote: | to have a conversation with anyone who refuses to listen/read...
Daniel 10/TEN is the scripture where Daniel fasted for 21 days...and where the term "Daniel Fast" should come from...
Any attempt to not let the scripture speak plainly and for itself, to try and say that it's not a fast is silly, petty, ludicrous and a waste of time...
I'm not sure why people are upset that churches all over the world are practicing a 21-day fast anyway...I'm pretty sure communities of Jesus-followers seeking God in anyway in an extra and intentional way is a good thing...Get over the semantics... |
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[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/4/16 3:20 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | Chapter 1 is something else entirely - perhaps you can get it its own thread...if you can pull away long enough from some lame cheap doctorate posting. |
Why would Ole Timer need another thread for something he brought up in the Original Post of this thread?  |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/4/16 3:21 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: |
When you get to Chapter 10 - let us know what they think about that fast.
Chapter 1 is something else entirely - perhaps you can get it its own thread...if you can pull away long enough from some lame cheap doctorate posting. |
Thanks, NB. Next time ya go to physician, post an tell me how important ya think it is that his credentials are reputable. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/4/16 3:50 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: |
Only had time, Tom, to check two a the sources ya listed, in neither a which could I find a reference to the Daniel 1 diet as fasting. Could ya help the ole timer here an provide reference where Miller/Keil/Delitzsch used the term "fast?" |
Please re-read both of posts. I never stated that the events of Daniel 1 were a fast. Nor did I suggest anyone else stated that. |
My apologies to you, Tom, for not reading the entirety of the thread. I have most always, in popular writing, heard the Daniel Fast connected with Daniel 1--much more so than Daniel 10. That said, all of my posting in this thread has been in reference to Daniel 1. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/4/16 3:52 pm
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| Re: It's hard |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| bigdubbz wrote: |
I'm not sure why people are upset that churches all over the world are practicing a 21-day fast anyway...I'm pretty sure communities of Jesus-followers seeking God in anyway in an extra and intentional way is a good thing...Get over the semantics... |
Yo Dubbz, the ole timer aint upset at nobody fer wanted to fast any length a time. But if the fast is erroneously pulled from a scriptural text, this has nothing to do with semantics--it is error. Nothing surpasses correct exegesis, no opinion (mine or yours), nobody's book, etc... |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/4/16 3:56 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Tom Sterbens wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: |
Only had time, Tom, to check two a the sources ya listed, in neither a which could I find a reference to the Daniel 1 diet as fasting. Could ya help the ole timer here an provide reference where Miller/Keil/Delitzsch used the term "fast?" |
Please re-read both of posts. I never stated that the events of Daniel 1 were a fast. Nor did I suggest anyone else stated that. |
My apologies to you, Tom, for not reading the entirety of the thread. I have most always, in popular writing, heard the Daniel Fast connected with Daniel 1--much more so than Daniel 10. That said, all of my posting in this thread has been in reference to Daniel 1. |
True story...my kids pediatrician got his doctorate in Puerto Rico or Santa Domingo... don't know if it was legit - but he was the best Dr. ever...very innovative to help his clients.
Doctor of Medicine
Universidad Central del Este
Let me know if it is legit or not.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
1/4/16 4:02 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Tom Sterbens wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: |
Only had time, Tom, to check two a the sources ya listed, in neither a which could I find a reference to the Daniel 1 diet as fasting. Could ya help the ole timer here an provide reference where Miller/Keil/Delitzsch used the term "fast?" |
Please re-read both of posts. I never stated that the events of Daniel 1 were a fast. Nor did I suggest anyone else stated that. |
My apologies to you, Tom, for not reading the entirety of the thread. I have most always, in popular writing, heard the Daniel Fast connected with Daniel 1--much more so than Daniel 10. That said, all of my posting in this thread has been in reference to Daniel 1. |
True story...my kids pediatrician got his doctorate in Puerto Rico or Santa Domingo... don't know if it was legit - but he was the best Dr. ever...very innovative to help his clients.
Doctor of Medicine
Universidad Central del Este
Let me know if it is legit or not. |
Some questionable things have occurred, but it does appear to be legit per www.4icu.org/reviews/1195.htm
This aint the point, even Lee/ECBC/WCBC,NWBC had a few unpleasant situations cause a the decisions of students/professors that didn't have the schools best interest in mind.
Do you care about your physicians credentials? Do you want them to be legit? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/4/16 4:16 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Tom Sterbens wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: |
Only had time, Tom, to check two a the sources ya listed, in neither a which could I find a reference to the Daniel 1 diet as fasting. Could ya help the ole timer here an provide reference where Miller/Keil/Delitzsch used the term "fast?" |
Please re-read both of posts. I never stated that the events of Daniel 1 were a fast. Nor did I suggest anyone else stated that. |
My apologies to you, Tom, for not reading the entirety of the thread. I have most always, in popular writing, heard the Daniel Fast connected with Daniel 1--much more so than Daniel 10. That said, all of my posting in this thread has been in reference to Daniel 1. |
True story...my kids pediatrician got his doctorate in Puerto Rico or Santa Domingo... don't know if it was legit - but he was the best Dr. ever...very innovative to help his clients.
Doctor of Medicine
Universidad Central del Este
Let me know if it is legit or not. |
Some questionable things have occurred, but it does appear to be legit per www.4icu.org/reviews/1195.htm
This aint the point, even Lee/ECBC/WCBC,NWBC had a few unpleasant situations cause a the decisions of students/professors that didn't have the schools best interest in mind.
Do you care about your physicians credentials? Do you want them to be legit? |
He had a diploma on the wall. However, I determined whether he did the job with skill and exceptionalism. He was also allowed to practice at the local Children's Hospital - so I deemed HIM legit from that.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
1/4/16 4:32 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
I received quite a bit of flak in the past for simply saying that instead of giving up, say, soda pop, for Lent, folks ought to instead give up sin for good. I was somehow unfairly criticizing these 'Jesus followers', it was said. One friend of mine, who actually was Church of God, got upset at me for having the nerve to critique these silly 'sacrifices' people supposedly make during Lent. He had the audacity to claim that his giving up of chocolate for Lent somehow was a spiritually important act on his part. I had no idea that some CoG folks had begun observing Lent. What a crock.
To me, the 'Daniel Fast' as it is typically practiced, has virtually become the charismatic version of Lent. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
1/4/16 8:38 pm
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| Re: It's hard |
Carolyn Smith |
| bonnie knox wrote: | I listen/read fairly well. Do you?
I'm not sure who started the fad of the Daniel Fast, but I know Jentezen Franklin has written some books on fasting and has touted the Daniel Fast. Here is a quote from his book.
"Instead, Daniel suggested a ten-day fast of nothing but vegetables and water to prove to the steward that he and his three friends would be in better condition than the others who ate from the king's table." Here JF is referring to Daniel ch. 1 and he is calling that a fast.
The fact of the matter is that the Bible doesn't refer to what Daniel did in ch. 1 or ch. 10 as a fast. As you say, let the scripture speak for itself. As Tom pointed out, some people refer to what Daniel did in ch. 10 as fasting, but as I pointed out, the "Daniel Fast" as churches are doing is not JUST taken from ch. 10. It is a combination of ch. 1, ch. 10, and the verse in the NT.
Now, if you feel led to 3 weeks of mourning and eating no pleasant bread and not anointing yourself, that is quite one thing. It is another to tell your congregation what they may and may not eat for 3 weeks based on scriptures picked here and there at random.
|
Jentezen Franklin does teach about what he calls a "partial fast" and does indeed use Daniel 1 as a reference. He is not the only one who has written about a partial fast. It's been a long time since I read it, but it might be in the book called "God's Chosen Fast."
Another thing about Daniel 1 is that people refer to that as a ten day fast, when in fact, they were only observed by the eunuch for ten days. Their fast of eating vegetables & drinking water was actually for an indefinite period of time, per their convictions not to eat food offered to idols.
_________________
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
1/4/16 10:54 pm
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