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 POLL: Would you Perform a Same-Sex Marriage? |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| OK, fellers, here's the deal. If SCOTUS passes same-sex marriage an it becomes the law of the land, an it looks as though that's what's gonna happen, are there any circumstances under which you would perform a same-sex marriage ceremony? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
5/28/15 4:26 pm
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| Re: POLL: Would you Perform a Same-Sex Marriage? |
Dean Steenburgh |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | OK, fellers, here's the deal. If SCOTUS passes same-sex marriage an it becomes the law of the land, an it looks as though that's what's gonna happen, are there any circumstances under which you would perform a same-sex marriage ceremony? |
Since we're using a hypothetical scenario I will say "NO".
I cannot think of anything outside of life and death issues that would urge me to perform such a hideous event.
Some may not be able to respond because it's becoming more and more of an issue where some guys live & your response is saved by Google.
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Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
5/28/15 6:44 pm
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philunderwood |
I have decided that if this becomes law everywhere (it already is the law here but pastors are not required to perform any wedding they are asked to) and there are restrictions to my liberties, I will cease to do the ceremony for civil marriages, heterosexual or homosexual. I will do spiritual celebrations after a civil marriage that invokes the presence of God and the essence of worship by a couple committed to Jesus. It would look like a wedding, smell like a wedding and have cake like a wedding, but it would NOT be a legalized ceremony.
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Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3954
5/28/15 7:03 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| philunderwood wrote: | | I will do spiritual celebrations after a civil marriage that invokes the presence of God and the essence of worship by a couple committed to Jesus. |
Am I correct in defining your comments above as meaning spiritual celebrations for heterosexual couples and not same-sex couples? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
5/28/15 8:57 pm
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Link |
Maybe you could throw in some incentives to do it to see if people here fall for the temptation--- something like this:
- Perform a gay wedding and someone donates the winning lottery ticket to your church.
- Perform a gay wedding and someone donates a life time supply of beer to your church.
There just doesn't seem to be much temptation behind conducting a gay wedding. What's the incentive.
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
5/28/15 9:38 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | philunderwood wrote: | | I will do spiritual celebrations after a civil marriage that invokes the presence of God and the essence of worship by a couple committed to Jesus. |
Am I correct in defining your comments above as meaning spiritual celebrations for heterosexual couples and not same-sex couples? |
I don't see how as it could matter one way or t'other. Phil done said he wudn't nothing but in a cartoonish supportin role on a website in which nothin of impact or import was said. (Or somin along them lines.) |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
5/28/15 10:18 pm
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| I have declined in the past |
Mat |
In the past, I have declined to preform wedding ceremonies for couples (a man and a women) under certain circumstances. Perhaps they refused the required pre-martial counseling or there were issues in their lifestyle that I felt I did not wish to be associated with. At one time in the COGOP I was barred from preforming weddings for divorced people, and while now there is more "liberty" in this area, there have been those I have encountered who I feel I don't want to be a part of their ceremony. Not all wedding ceremonies result in "what God has joined together let no man put asunder".
If you have never looked in the face of a couple and said no I will not preform your wedding and you may not use the church, you need to learn how and be ready for the consequences.
Its a "spiritual mystery" how some of the most gifted, talented, giving, loving people in churches struggle with the sin of homosexuality. If we are not careful those very attributes will cloud our willingness to practice scriptural church discipline. As I stated in another thread, at a recent legal seminar for Pastors, the attorney who was teaching about the assault of the radical gay agenda and same-sex marriage made the point that the first churches to fall will be those who have little in the way of Statements of Faith (with much scripture), membership requirements (signed) and a written church discipline policy (including a agreement to arbitration over litigation - Christians/members don't take each other to court).
The fact is there are already many ministers who are and will preform same-sex marriages and many beautiful churches available for the ceremony.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
5/29/15 8:14 am
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JLarry |
NO!
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No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
5/29/15 10:11 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Depends on what it is paying.
A civil marriage these day has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible - so why not?
Probably have a brewski afterwards.
Maybe a doobie.
maybe spew my guts out.
Whatever.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
5/29/15 10:23 am
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| This poll is going no where |
Mat |
This poll is going no where, maybe its a matter of "don't ask, don't tell" when it comes to who we are willing to officiate a marriage for. I would guess plans for a little wedding chapel after retiring from the pastorate are out, unless I do it under another name like "Nature Boy Florida". 
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
5/29/15 4:58 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Might as well chime in here.
The OTCP will/would, under no set of circumstances, for no mounts a money, for no relative a mine or mommas (which means nepotism aint gonna play no part in the decision), for no AB, for no PB, for nobody on the EC, for no missions rep, for nobody in the state a KY (religious or secular), not for the POTUS, not for SCOTUS, in other words, not for neary reason would OTCP ever perform a same-sex weddin ceremony. Not even if somebody stole one a ma doubleknit polyester leisure suits an held it for ransom. An, hey, a feller can't buy them things no more....................not even on Amazon. An the ole timer has gotta keep his cutting edge look. But not even for doubleknit would I do a same-sex marriage. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
5/29/15 5:32 pm
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philunderwood |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | philunderwood wrote: | | I will do spiritual celebrations after a civil marriage that invokes the presence of God and the essence of worship by a couple committed to Jesus. |
Am I correct in defining your comments above as meaning spiritual celebrations for heterosexual couples and not same-sex couples? |
If I were in the game for both, why draw the line? Sheesh!
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Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3954
5/29/15 6:58 pm
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| Consider... |
Aaron Scott |
You have a large extended family in your church. They are involved in many different ways--music, singing, teaching, staff, etc. Further, they give a significant amount of money to your church in tithes.
But their son is gay. He's a good kid in many ways. He may even have grown up in your church and loves you and your family...you also believe he sincerely wants to live for Jesus.
But finally he admits that for as long as he can remember, he has struggled with homosexual feelings. And now that he is an adult, he has "come out."
You still love him, of course. At the same time, you are wise enough to know that telling him it is against the Bible will not change how he feels about the same sex. He is tormented. He is depressed. He feels he will never find happiness.
In fact, a friend of his, committed suicide over pretty much the same situation.
But now he has found love with a same-sex partner. His spirits have lifted. His family, worried that he might take his life, cannot help but be happy for his happiness.
And then he decided to marry his same-sex partner...and he goes to the only person--you--who have been his pastor.
To say no is to very likely lose a large part of your church.
But OK, they can understand your feelings. Would it be alright if they just have the WEDDING there? Or at least the RECEPTION?
At some point, you being to wonder if you'll actually cause more damage to the church by NOT performing the wedding...than performing it.
Very simply, it's easy for us to say "No" now. I trust we all hold that same feeling. But consider how many times you may have done things differently to keep from offending someone in your church.
It may be easy to say no to strangers. It will be very difficult, I imagine, to say no to dear friends who have supported you for years...and now just want 30 minutes of your time.... |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
5/29/15 9:31 pm
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philunderwood |
Emotionally difficult, spiritually resolved. I cannot do something 'in the name of Jesus' that is not specifically outlined in Scripture. No matter how you parse language, every analogy of marital covenant is male-female, not loving individuals without regard to gender. We live in a difficult time, and we know that 100 years from now this issue will in some way have changed the face of the church institution, but for me I just cannot violate the Word, no matter my emotional sensitivity. My emotions change, the Word doesn't.
This is where we need separation of church and state. It is getting to the place where we just should NOT do civil marriages where we sanction the state's power. The church still can celebrate the covenant of marriage in a worshipful setting without my being the officiant that signs the certificate on file for legal purposes.
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Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3954
5/29/15 11:56 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
At the 75th General Assembly the Church of God adopted the following:
| Quote: |
That we amend pages 158-159, S63. GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR MINISTERS, by adding the following:
so as to read:
II. Marriage and Same-Sex Relationships
A. The Church of God rejects the cultural, political, and theological pressures to change the definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman. We affirm this definition based on God’s Word and the truth that Christian marriage between a man and a woman reflects the theological truth of Christ’s love for His Church.
B. Church of God ministers, whether an ordained minister or ordained bishop, shall only perform or participate in marriage ceremonies or marriage blessings between one man and one woman, as marriage is defined in the Bible. This policy also is applicable to Church of God ministers who serve in capacities outside the scope of normal pastoring, such as military, hospital, and corporate chaplains.
C. Local Church of God churches and the local Church of God ministers who serve them shall only hold, provide facilities for, conduct or preside over weddings, wedding receptions, and anniversaries (and other gatherings related to weddings, receptions, and anniversaries) that celebrate a marriage or blessing between one man and one woman, as marriage is defined in the Bible.
D. Church of God ministers shall maintain a Christ-like attitude of love, mercy, and grace, when counseling or otherwise dealing with individuals in same-gender relationships. A Christ-like spirit will maintain the truth of God’s Word, the policies of the church, and avoid inappropriate remarks or attitudes that do not reflect the Holy Spirit.
E. Church of God ministers shall seek to find godly counselors to whom they can refer individuals in same-gender relationships for additional ministry and guidance.
F. Failure of Church of God ministers to adhere to these biblically based guidelines will result in forfeiture of ministerial credentials. |
So, if a CoG minister is contemplating solemnizing a same-sex wedding, it would mean forfeiture of his or her credentials. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
5/30/15 12:12 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | So, if a CoG minister is contemplating solemnizing a same-sex wedding, it would mean forfeiture of his or her credentials. |
Now they COG might might revoke the ole timers credentials for:
1. Eatin too many hot fudge cakes with momma...
or
2. Rebukin error on Actscelerate...
But, if the ole timer ever has to git his credentials revoked, it won't be for contemplatin no same-sex marriage. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
5/30/15 1:43 am
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| Not a difficult decision |
roughridercog |
No way
_________________
Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25305
5/30/15 6:35 am
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philunderwood |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | At the 75th General Assembly the Church of God adopted the following:
| Quote: |
D. Church of God ministers shall maintain a Christ-like attitude of love, mercy, and grace, when counseling or otherwise dealing with individuals in same-gender relationships. A Christ-like spirit will maintain the truth of God�s Word, the policies of the church, and avoid inappropriate remarks or attitudes that do not reflect the Holy Spirit.
E. Church of God ministers shall seek to find godly counselors to whom they can refer individuals in same-gender relationships for additional ministry and guidance.
F. Failure of Church of God ministers to adhere to these biblically based guidelines will result in forfeiture of ministerial credentials. |
So, if a CoG minister is contemplating solemnizing a same-sex wedding, it would mean forfeiture of his or her credentials. |
Not ONLY that, but the D guideline would disqualify some even now. Let's hope powers that be do not monitor every sentiment that may be expressed about homosexuals by our pastors. That might could lead to a large revocation of credentials.
_________________
Live an epiK life!
Discover More...
http://www.refocusing.org
A Mission in Formation
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Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3954
5/30/15 8:22 am
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c6thplayer1 |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | Might as well chime in here.
The OTCP will/would, under no set of circumstances, for no mounts a money, for no relative a mine or mommas (which means nepotism aint gonna play no part in the decision), for no AB, for no PB, for nobody on the EC, for no missions rep, for nobody in the state a KY (religious or secular), not for the POTUS, not for SCOTUS, in other words, not for neary reason would OTCP ever perform a same-sex weddin ceremony. Not even if somebody stole one a ma doubleknit polyester leisure suits an held it for ransom. An, hey, a feller can't buy them things no more....................not even on Amazon. An the ole timer has gotta keep his cutting edge look. But not even for doubleknit would I do a same-sex marriage. |
I'm not sure but I think this means No way. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
5/30/15 10:08 am
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| Re: Consider... |
skinnybishop |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | You have a large extended family in your church. They are involved in many different ways--music, singing, teaching, staff, etc. Further, they give a significant amount of money to your church in tithes.
But their son is gay. He's a good kid in many ways. He may even have grown up in your church and loves you and your family...you also believe he sincerely wants to live for Jesus.
But finally he admits that for as long as he can remember, he has struggled with homosexual feelings. And now that he is an adult, he has "come out."
You still love him, of course. At the same time, you are wise enough to know that telling him it is against the Bible will not change how he feels about the same sex. He is tormented. He is depressed. He feels he will never find happiness.
In fact, a friend of his, committed suicide over pretty much the same situation.
But now he has found love with a same-sex partner. His spirits have lifted. His family, worried that he might take his life, cannot help but be happy for his happiness.
And then he decided to marry his same-sex partner...and he goes to the only person--you--who have been his pastor.
To say no is to very likely lose a large part of your church.
But OK, they can understand your feelings. Would it be alright if they just have the WEDDING there? Or at least the RECEPTION?
At some point, you being to wonder if you'll actually cause more damage to the church by NOT performing the wedding...than performing it.
Very simply, it's easy for us to say "No" now. I trust we all hold that same feeling. But consider how many times you may have done things differently to keep from offending someone in your church.
It may be easy to say no to strangers. It will be very difficult, I imagine, to say no to dear friends who have supported you for years...and now just want 30 minutes of your time.... |
Not a tough choice for me at all. NO. Not for my best friend's gay son. Not for a gay cousin. Not for anyone. Period. I won't do it.
"Well Eddie, what if your church gets mad?" Frankly, I don't care. My first priority is pleasing God, not church people. I will leave the pastorate before I would conduct a gay wedding. Performing a gay wedding would be a violation of Scripture, in my opinion, and my conscience.
The situation you described reminded me of the ol' "If you love me you will do it" argument. As in, "If you love me, you will do my gay wedding."
Phooey. If you love ME, you won't ask...won't expect me to violate my personal beliefs to honor yours.
_________________
Eddie Wiggins
Last edited by skinnybishop on 5/30/15 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1055
5/30/15 11:19 am
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