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Origins and Validity of "Pleading the Blood"
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Post Changed my mind p5harri
mytwocents wrote:
If we are not to pray for traveling mercies, plead the blood (which still speaks), pray a hedge of protection (as God was said to have provided Job), then why pray at all?

Going down this road leads us to an end that what is going to happen is going to happen.

Whether are not things are theologically perfect in the eyes of men, I do not know. But I promise you this:
-when your child is diagnosed with cancer, you'll plead the blood!
-when you are traveling into hostile mission territory, you will pray for traveling mercy.
-when your brother is being sent to Afghanistan, you'll pray a hedge around him.

I think sometimes we try to explain too much and trust too little.
I'm reminded of the man who was blind and Jesus healed. When the scribes and pharisees (keepers of theology in that day) investigated and demanded an explanation of how this took place, his answer was simply "all I know is I was blind and now I see".


You know I have often questioned this saying. However, after reading your answer, I find myself on the side of those who say it now...

Who says this forum won't change someones mind.
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Post Classical doyle
What'ss the goal with the condescending posts to your fellow posters? If the goal was to help them improve Classical could have sent them a PM and shared that privately.

Instead, the choice was made to castigate them publicly to show CO's superiority of intelligence? If your fellow posters are not as perfect as Classical, just chill or contact them privately.
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Post Re: Classical Randy Johnson
doyle wrote:
What'ss the goal with the condescending posts to your fellow posters? If the goal was to help them improve Classical could have sent them a PM and shared that privately.

Instead, the choice was made to castigate them publicly to show CO's superiority of intelligence? If your fellow posters are not as perfect as Classical, just chill or contact them privately.


I've been posting here for a little while Doyle, and I haven't noticed CO's superior intelligence. Must be the camouflage.
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Post Pleading the Blood of the Lamb: Protection maqqebet
There is no doubt that by "Pleading the Blood" can be construed as a plea for protection -- but from what are we to be protected? Both the Atonement and Passover can imply "covering."

The "covering" the blood of sacrifice provides is two-fold:
    One, it "covers" sin and iniquity

    Two, it "protects" from the wrath of God


Whether it is the blood applied to the door posts at Passover, or the blood sprinkled on the Mercy Seat, it is offered up as Atonement, a covering for that which is ungodly, displeasing to God, hostile to Him, provocative of His wrath and punishment. To "plead the blood" from this perspective implies that what we are facing is the result of sin and we are appealing, through repentance, to full restoration and protection from judgment.

Frankly, some of the ills and problems are exactly the result of willful disobedience. Sin, in some cases, results in sickness (PLEASE, do not read into this that all sickness is the result of sin!!!!). The "prayer of faith" can be offered resulting in both healing and restoration.

If "pleading the blood" is viewed from the perspective of Redemption, the central theme of Passover, then, as having been redeemed, bought, purchased by God, we are indeed positionally place in His care as His own.

As His own, therefore, we can call upon His mercy and grace when we perceive we are under attack... we can put on the full armor of God, we can act in His name and His Son's name.

To "plead the blood" in the perspective of Redemption, therefore, is to serve as a reminder to Him that we are His own. Does He need such a reminder? Does "pleading the blood" demonstrate faith, or does it reveal an element of doubt?
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Post Pleading the cross, pleading the crown of thorns Link
What do you think about Christians:

pleading the cross of Christ
pleading the crown of thorn
pleading the beating of Christ by the soldiers
pleading the nails of the cross

whenever they get into a tough situation?
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Post Judicial Setting maqqebet
If we want to place "pleading the blood" in judicial context then we must deal with the concept that there are those the "plead the blood" as a "defense" against perceived attacks, viz., sickness, oppression, etc.

In Job, Satan is presented in terms of the prosecuting attorney who attempts to indict Job as one that does not serve God except for the "hedge" God has placed around Job. The hedge was extended to include his family, and then his personal health. The only hedge of protection that remained was Job's life.

According to Jewish tradition, Satan (haSatan, the Satan) is God's agent and not his adversary. As an agent in God's court room, Satan becomes man's adversary. This imagery holds true in Zechariah 3:1,

"Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him." Like

This imagery is continued in Revelations 12:10-11,

Rev 12:10-11
Quote:
10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser [katḗgōr] of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses [katēgoréō] them before our God day and night. 11"And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even to death. (NAS)


The realm in which the Accuser is found prior to being thrown down includes access to God's ear and serves as a courtroom. The implication of "accuse" does not imply any form of persecution, i.e., sickness, affliction, etc. It does imply an oral argument against the "brethren" and in this context also implies that if form of oppression is with the consent of God, viz. Job.

Note the following regarding the Apostle Peter:
Quote:
31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to bsift you like wheat; 32 but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.” (NAS)


Satan "demands the surrender of" Peter that he may be sifted. It is a test of faith that Peter will fail, but because Jesus has prayed for him, he will be restored and provide strength to his brothers.

Returning to Revelation 12:11... Believers become overcomers by three things:

    The Blood of the Lamb, or by virtue of the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross and the justification it provides all that believe.

    The Word of their Testimony, or the record of the testimony that have upon the merits of Jesus' death and resurrection and righteousness obtained by faith.

    They were willing to die for their testimony rather than recant.


The obvious implication of this passage includes that Believers are over comers in light of persecution and even though their faithfulness requires not only endurance, it can, and in context of Revelations, include martyrdom.

In a judicial context, therefore, to "plead the blood" does not include absolute possibility of escape present difficulties, but does include vindication for their faithfulness, even to the point of death.

I fail to recognize any demands upon covenant provisions in light of oppression. Further, it would appear that in a judicial context, the Accuser gains opportunity to oppress solely at the discretion and purposes of God, which may include Him allowing the believer to be tested.

James writes in James 1:2-5,
Quote:

2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter bvarious 1trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. 5 But if any of you alacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and 1without reproach, and bit will be given to him. 6 But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, cdriven and tossed by the wind. 7 For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, 8 being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.


How can do we reconcile "pleading the blood" with Paul's three-time refusal to have his "thorn in the flesh" removed? The response he receives is not the expected result of what many consider to be "faith":

Quote:
9And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Cor 12:9-10 (NAS)


The example of both James and Paul seem to be the same. When faced with trial our first response should be rejoicing, not pleading, whether begging or judicial. It should be that the purpose of our testing is not to destroy us, but to strengthen us, to strengthen our testimony as we recognize a new measure of God's grace that transcends present circumstances as we realize that "we know that God causes all things to work together to work for good those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose" (Romans 8:28)
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"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB)


Last edited by maqqebet on 10/11/09 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post Re: Judicial Setting p5harri
maqqebet wrote:
If we want to place "pleading the blood" in judicial context then we must deal with the concept that there are those the "plead the blood" as a "defense" against perceived attacks, viz., sickness, oppression, etc.

In Job, Satan is presented in terms of the persecuting attorney who attempts to indict Job as one that does not serve God except for the "hedge" God has placed around Job. The hedge was extended to include his family, and then his personal health. The only hedge of protection that remained was Job's life.

According to Jewish tradition, Satan (haSatan, the Satan) is God's agent and not his adversary. As an agent in God's court room, Satan becomes man's adversary. This imagery holds true in Zechariah 3:1,

"Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him." Like

This imagery is continued in Revelations 12:10-11,

Rev 12:10-11
Quote:
10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser [katḗgōr] of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses [katēgoréō] them before our God day and night. 11"And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even to death. (NAS)


The realm in which the Accuser is found prior to being thrown down includes access to God's ear and serves as a courtroom. The implication of "accuse" does not imply any form of persecution, i.e., sickness, affliction, etc. It does imply an oral argument against the "brethren" and in this context also implies that if form of oppression is with the consent of God, viz. Job.

Note the following regarding the Apostle Peter:
Quote:
31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to bsift you like wheat; 32 but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.” (NAS)


Satan "demands the surrender of" Peter that he may be sifted. It is a test of faith that Peter will fail, but because Jesus has prayed for him, he will be restored and provide strength to his brothers.

Returning to Revelation 12:11... Believers become overcomers by three things:

    The Blood of the Lamb, or by virtue of the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross and the justification it provides all that believe.

    The Word of their Testimony, or the record of the testimony that have upon the merits of Jesus' death and resurrection and righteousness obtained by faith.

    They were willing to die for their testimony rather than recant.


The obvious implication of this passage includes that Believers are over comers in light of persecution and even though their faithfulness requires not only endurance, it can, and in context of Revelations, include martyrdom.

In a judicial context, therefore, to "plead the blood" does not include absolute possibility of escape present difficulties, but does include vindication for their faithfulness, even to the point of death.

I fail to recognize any demands upon covenant provisions in light of oppression. Further, it would appear that in a judicial context, the Accuser gains opportunity to oppress solely at the discretion and purposes of God, which may include Him allowing the believer to be tested.

James writes in James 1:2-5,
Quote:

2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter bvarious 1trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. 5 But if any of you alacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and 1without reproach, and bit will be given to him. 6 But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, cdriven and tossed by the wind. 7 For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, 8 being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.


How can do we reconcile "pleading the blood" with Paul's three-time refusal to have his "thorn in the flesh" removed? The response he receives is not the expected result of what many consider to be "faith":

Quote:
9And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Cor 12:9-10 (NAS)


The example of both James and Paul seem to be the same. When faced with trial our first response should be rejoicing, not pleading, whether begging or judicial. It should be that the purpose of our testing is not to destroy us, but to strengthen us, to strengthen our testimony as we recognize a new measure of God's grace that transcends present circumstances as we realize that "we know that God causes all things to work together to work for good those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose" (Romans 8:28)


You are trying to make way to much of a simple paraphrase.

If you want to believe satan has all that authority, your call, I don't see it.

Also, as far as Jewish tradition, I know you set a great store by it....I don't.
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Post A paraphrase maqqebet
without substance is a paraphrase without substance. Empty phraseology amounts to faithless expressions that impress neither God nor Satan.

There is nothing in my comments to suggest that Satan has all authority, rather that he/it has no authority other than what is given him by God. A prosecuting (I mistyped and wrote persecuting) does not have all authority but is an agent of the highest authority.

As for Jewish tradition, I didn't offer that as the only validation for the position, so if you want to debate the Scriptures and their applications, I will be glad to discuss them. How do you respond to Job 1:1f, Zechariah 3:1f, and Rev 12:10?

A question: Am I to assume that your rejection of Jewish tradition is a blanket clause? If you do reject all Jewish tradition you have lost a great heritage as a Gentile Believer as well as significant insight into the Gospels.
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Post Re: A paraphrase p5harri
maqqebet wrote:
without substance is a paraphrase without substance. Empty phraseology amounts to faithless expressions that impress neither God nor Satan.

There is nothing in my comments to suggest that Satan has all authority, rather that he/it has no authority other than what is given him by God. A prosecuting (I mistyped and wrote persecuting) does not have all authority but is an agent of the highest authority.

As for Jewish tradition, I didn't offer that as the only validation for the position, so if you want to debate the Scriptures and their applications, I will be glad to discuss them. How do you respond to Job 1:1f, Zechariah 3:1f, and Rev 12:10?

A question: Am I to assume that your rejection of Jewish tradition is a blanket clause? If you do reject all Jewish tradition you have lost a great heritage as a Gentile Believer as well as significant insight into the Gospels.


At one time I was very interested in Jewish tradition and how it applied to Christians. Unfortunately, it was actually the Messianic believers that put me off with trying to include the Law and feasts as something that is just as valid and required today.
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Post Re: Christian superstition? PureGold
Randy Johnson wrote:
Maybe this would make a good separate thread, but the way "pleading the blood" was used when I was a child, it was almost like an incantation to insure protection from harm or danger.

I could never find Scriptural evidence for this or for other things like:

Praying for a hedge of protection around somebody.

or

Traveling mercies

or

The devil can't understand you when you speak in tongues

Are these just Christian superstitions based on misapplications of Scriptures?

Does anyone else have examples of Christian superstitions they have encountered?


Safe to say many things we do we do not find in scripture. We Pentecostals have "danced in the spirit" which I believe in but it is not in scripture. There are many other things Christians believe that are not identified specifically in the Word but seems to be some evidence available to give room.....i.e. as in my example....we often use David dancing in the streets as an act of rejoicing and worship.

I am one of those who absolutely does not believe the devil understand "tongues" he also is not a mind reader. He does not know what I'm thinking. I believe tongues "heavenly language" is not understood by him.

Traveling mercies.....a simple prayer of protection. Not worded in scripture as I recall but certainly not harmful or wrong.

My 2 cents.
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