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We speak what will be...
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Post Rafael... Yo Dude
I think everyone can see the difference between true argumentation and whatever it is that you are doing.

Just in case you didn't know, calling me a heretic and accusing me of insulting your mother are NOT arguments in this matter. But when you don't have an argument, I suppose you have to use whatever is handy.

There's no need for you and I to discuss this a moment more. I'm no longer the LEAST bit interested in convincing you. And you have given me nothing convincing in return.

Take care.
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4/17/06 7:26 am


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Post Re: We speak what will be... Porpoise Driven Neptune
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Last edited by Porpoise Driven Neptune on 4/27/06 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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4/17/06 7:28 am


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Post Re: We speak what will be... TheoloJohn
In all fairness to Yo Dude, I don't think it's right of you, Rafael, to mock him by asking him his itinerary for emptying out hospitals, etc. What I hear Yo saying is that if and when God commands you to speak healing in His name, we should obey that and do as He tells us to do.

I don't see where Yo is saying that the absolute prerogative of healing lies with us.
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4/17/06 8:39 am


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Post Theolo... Yo Dude
Thank you for providing some balance here.

However, let me clarify a couple of things:

Healing comes from GOD. Not the person--not matter how much faith we might have.

That being said, I DO believe that we have the authority to speak healing without a specific word from God.

Why?

Because we already have the witness of scripture and the Spirit that God will heal all that come for healing. Now, He might choose to heal only a few of His own initiative (that is, he might SEND us to only a few), but ALL who came to Him, He healed.

So when we see a sick child, there is no need to hear from God on the matter--He has already spoken!

And when we need provision, there is no need to ask whether it is God's will to provide. He has already told us that it is!

And so we proceed confidently with this knowledge, going about doing what we know He wants done.

When we don't know His will, we seek direction and guidance. But as sons, we have a pretty good idea of what our earthly fathers think, like, dislike, want, enjoy, etc. Likewise, as the Sons of God, we have some idea of what is and is not in accord with the Father. And so long as it is in accord, we JUST DO IT.

How many pray about having church three times a week? No one. Because we know that we are to do so "must more" as we see the day approaching.

It is our PRIVILEGE as sons to act in the Name of the Lord, doing all the things that Jesus would have us do--DOING ALL THE THINGS THAT JESUS HIMSELF WOULD HAVE DONE.

I hope that clarifies....

Love.
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4/17/06 9:06 am


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Post Re: We speak what will be... TheoloJohn
Hi Yo (I just love saying "Hi-Yo." ) Very Happy

If it truly is your position that we can speak or command a person to be healed without a direct word from God, then I will just have to say that your view is nothing but an attempt to dethrone God and place your own will above His.

I find absolutely no scripture whatsoever that would support your position, if that in fact is your position.

Sincerely,

John
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4/18/06 8:26 am


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Post Theolo... Yo Dude
Can you show me a single NT verse where any of the Apostles had to inquire of the Lord before healing someone?

YOU, YOU, YOU shall receive power!

The power is IN us. It is not OF us, but God has blessed us by putting this power within us.

Doesn't mean we know all things. Doesn't mean we don't ask amiss at times. But it does mean that, AS WE FLOW WITH THE SPIRIT, we can speak and command things to be.

For instance, if the Holy Spirit rises within me regarding a sick or distressed child, I do not then need to go pray about it. I am being given an unction for a reason--and all I do is flow with Him.

Let me give you an example....

Have you ever had a check in your spirit about a "new friend"? Perhaps a new member of the church, etc.? Our first instinct is to say, "Well, I don't SEE or KNOW of any reason to feel this way," and so we often ignore it...to our own peril and detriment.

But over time, after enough times, I have learned that when the Holy Spirit checks me, I don't "check it out," I don't research the matter, I don't do a pros/cons list--I just flow with the Spirit and separate myself.

Period.

Likewise, there are things that occur in life where, we need to "word" from God in THAT SPECIFIC INSTANCE. We just know...and we flow.

Further, there are things that have ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED by scripture. We don't have to ask, for instance, whether God wants us to lay hands on the sick. We KNOW that. No need to pray about it, inquire about it, and so forth. We just do it.

Yes, I do believe that without a DIRECT WORD FROM GOD, it is possible to speak healing to the sick. Why? Because we already have a word from the Lord!

That is, God does not speak to us in every single situation. If you interpret that to mean that He does not will, say, a healing, many will go unhealed. But if you realize that He has already laid down a principle that lets us know that He WILL heal and He WILL hear when we pray, we proceed confidently in our task.

Now, there ARE times when we have neither an unction or a scripture, perhaps, to lead us. Or perhaps we feel a decided check in our spirit AGAINST praying for a certain thing. Well, we always follow the Spirit. Of course, if it would be amiss, it would not happen even if we did pray for it.

So there are three categories, it seems:

1) Those things that are left entirely to us (e.g., lasagna or hamburgers)
2) Those things that we need not inquire about (e.g., healing for believers)
3) Those things we are to inquire about (e.g., certain checks in the Spirit; lack of scriptural clarity in a situation, etc.)

Quite simply, it is not "heretical" or "unscriptural" to believe that, once empowered, we are to act ON BEHALF of God...and not simply do nothing unless we have a specific word from Him. Can you imagine how little we'd get done if we ALWAYS had to have a specific word--for He doesn't dish them out in abundance--which is why they are so precious.

And I can't find any scripture that would lead me to another conclusion. But I invite your comments.
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4/18/06 9:00 am


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Post Re: We speak what will be... TheoloJohn
Yo,

"You shall receive power," in context, refers to power to be a witness for Christ, not power to "call things into existence." Romans 4:17 is quite often misquoted and misapplied by those in the Word-Faith movement, but the fact is that verse only shows that GOD is the one who calls those things which "be not as though they are."

I certainly agree with you that we must "flow with the Spirit." To me, that is the whole point being debated here. The Book of Acts is nothing if not the plainest evidence possible, that the ministry of Christ's Body (the Church) on the earth is to be led of the Spirit in all things.

Blessings,

John
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4/18/06 9:15 am


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Post "I'm not dead. I'm not dead" PIC roughridercog
Sorry couldn't resist.
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4/18/06 1:09 pm


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Post happytobeback
That is the Word!!!Glory to God, the Father, Christ, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
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5/30/07 8:58 am


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Post PureGold
Thank you YD for the OP..(original post)

I have not read this whole thread but enough.....

Those who find it difficult to believe this obviously have not moved any mountains in their lives as promised by the King..... Mark 11:23-24
say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.
NKJV

Truths is this is the GOD KIND OF FAITH. Have the faith of God...what does it mean.....God knows that what He SAYS will manifest.

Such arrogance of those here who choose to call the names of men of God and declare their error, when in all actuality WE ALL ARE LIVING EXACTLY WHAT WE SPEAK. Whether you teach this or not.....you are living by the words of your mouth. I am so sick of Christians who don't produce calling down those who do. While these ministers may be in error in some ways, every one of we PREACHERS are in error in our doctrine and teaching some where. We're just to proud to admit it. I wish we'd just grow up and understand He made us like Himself, and gave us His authority in the earth. We don't have this all figured out nor have we yet walked into its fullness....but we are steadily practicing as we go. THY KINGDOM COME THY WILL BE DONE, HERE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.

Don't you know that YOU HAVE THE POWER TO PERMIT OR NOT PERMIT A THING!

Do you think God get's nervous with this kind of faith. Faith does not just grab at straws reaching for this or that to declare, it listens to the Spirit and speaks words of the Spirit which God infuses.....and produces. My faith is purpose driven. Faith is an action word! Smile [/b]
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Post PureGold
The error and ignorance of rejecting this teaching, is that to many reason on the side, that this kind of faith action is an attempted manipulation of God, rather then understanding He is simply waiting for our agreement with HIM and FAITH the believes that it has what it says is agreement with God. God is looking for someone to agree with HIM!

That is why it works, and that is why He fulfills what we speak.
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