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Carolyn Smith |
OK, I've tried 3 times to make a post and state my opinion, but it won't go through for some reason. I keep getting an internal error response. Guess maybe I'm not supposed to say any more.
But fellas, please play nice. We don't have to call each other names, do we?
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"More of Him...less of me."
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5910
1/12/24 9:29 pm
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| JimmyBee |
Aaron Scott |
| jimmybee wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | A couple of posters intent on muddying the water but its not happening. This is not some poor innocent act that was done in the privacy of a marriage, its blatant defiance and has been going on at Lee for years. Its payback for the attempt to promote adherence to COG doctrine, plain and simple and to pretend otherwise is laughable. |
How is it done publicly? Did the professor rent a billboard? Did he run commercials? All I have seen is that he put it on his personal Facebook page, that is private and only his friends could have seen it.
I guess your opinion of privacy is different than mine, which you are entitled to.
No one is muddying the water. It's a difference of opinion. |
It's all the more nefarious if it was a "private" thing. That means it was going on right under out noses until expelled.
If a Lee professor is a closet atheist, is that information not permissible because it was not public information?
It is one thing to see things a bit differently from others. It is another thing altogether to hold a position that is not just contrary to the Church of God, but contrary to the gospel itself. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
1/13/24 12:04 pm
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| Re: JimmyBee |
jimmybee |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | | jimmybee wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | A couple of posters intent on muddying the water but its not happening. This is not some poor innocent act that was done in the privacy of a marriage, its blatant defiance and has been going on at Lee for years. Its payback for the attempt to promote adherence to COG doctrine, plain and simple and to pretend otherwise is laughable. |
How is it done publicly? Did the professor rent a billboard? Did he run commercials? All I have seen is that he put it on his personal Facebook page, that is private and only his friends could have seen it.
I guess your opinion of privacy is different than mine, which you are entitled to.
No one is muddying the water. It's a difference of opinion. |
It's all the more nefarious if it was a "private" thing. That means it was going on right under out noses until expelled.
If a Lee professor is a closet atheist, is that information not permissible because it was not public information?
It is one thing to see things a bit differently from others. It is another thing altogether to hold a position that is not just contrary to the Church of God, but contrary to the gospel itself. |
So your view is that because he went to this service with his wife he holds a position contrary to the gospel. By your words, that would make him a sinner, correct? |
New Member
Posts: 23
1/13/24 4:52 pm
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sheepdogandy |
I would not judge him a sinner.
Or you either.
He is however disqualified to teach at my Seminary.
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Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7298
1/15/24 5:38 pm
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| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | jimmybee wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Not merely attend, she joined and was received into membership into a very ‘out’ pro-LGBTQETC denomination. Taking communion means one considers those one is partaking with to be Christians, whom one could in good conscience be a member with. Then they posted it on their own public Facebook page, as an important life event. This is directly contrary to the Scriptures and obviously is a middle finger in the face of the CoG by someone whose paycheck comes from the CoG.
The Bible clearly states that those who practice such things as homosexuality shall not inherit the kingdom of God, but an apostate denomination that teaches contrary to the word on this are considered genuine Christians? |
So any Church of God member goes to a non-Church of God church and participates in communion, then they are in agreement with that church's beliefs and doctrine? |
Not necessarily, depending on what the particular church’s beliefs may be. It would usually be okay to participate in communion with an evangelical church.
Do you think it would be appropriate for anyone who claims to be a Bible-believing Christian to take communion with a church group that is plainly pro-LGBTQETC? |
I wouldn't want to take communion in such a setting. It reminds me of a tradition passed down about the apostle John recorded in Eusebius church history that he was in a public building and a false teacher came in, and he did not want to be under the same roof with him.
I have taken communion with Anglicans. I'd occasionally go to a Charismatic Anglican preacher's church in Indonesia, who was CoG, I think, before that, but the Anglicans wanted to back the ministry. But these weren't the pro-gay Episcopalian type.
The topic reminds me of the Plymouth Brethren doctrine, I think it's called Separation from Evil. The closed Brethren, which followed Darby on this, would not take communion with those who they believed held to false doctrine. Darby was closed brethren. George Muller was open brethren. From what I hear, the closed Brethren can be somewhat cultish, and they can be extreme about the communion thing. Watchman Nee's group was in fellowship with some Brethren folks in Australia until they Australians learned that Nee had partaken of communion at the church where T. Austin Sparks ministered.
I think the Closed Brethren take it too far, but there is a principle there. In I Corinthians 5, dealing with the need to deliver the fornicator over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh and not keep company or eat with him, we read that a little leaven leavens the whole lump. And 'ye' are the leaven. We are to keep the feast not with the leavened bread of malice and wickedness but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
So the idea may be that partaking of communion with someone sinful who won't repent is contaminating to others in the church. Is the evidence too thin? But that's not all folks, there is also Jude and II peter 2 where the false brethren and false teachers are spots on your love feasts, and spots and blemishes while they feast with you. A sacrificial lamb, such as a passover lamb, was not allowed to have spots or blemishes. The idea seems to be one of a contaminated sacrifice.
Equating or comparing holy communion to a passover sacrifice may seem a bit 'Catholic', and may not fit the thinking of Pentecostals. Honestly, it seems like Pentecostals in general tend to be rather light on these issues of doctrine and practice, in general.
I don't know of any Pentecostal handbooks or doctrinal statements, or practice for that matter, that put restrictions on communion. I don't know the details, but it sounds like Travis Johnson may have some genuine concerns about this. I don't know if the professor was trying to partake of communion as some kind of statement.
I am not aware of the COG denomination having any restrictions on partaking of communion anywhere. For me, outwardly embracing sexual immorality or murder might be a reason not to partake of communion, but I have to admit I would more readily do this if the church were pro-gay than if it had too loose an idea of divorce and remarriage-- which many churches including Pentecostals do-- but they don't wave an adultery flag like the gays do with their flag so it isn't obvious.
If there is no church policy, will Lee do anything to the professor. Episcopalians partake of communion weekly, don't they, and at weddings and other occasions like Roman Catholics. If he's not into promoting the gay perversion, but his wife is, what is he going to do? Is he never going to go to that weird church with his wife. They are having communion, and he joins in. It's an undesirable situation to be in. If he's actively promoting the LGBT agenda, he should be let go. If he doesn't believe what he says he believes and he is supposed to believe, that can be grounds as well.
For hiring, a Christian school may be able to find out if one's spouse is on board before hiring. I got a job offer at ORU once, and they asked me about my beliefs, but didn't interview my wife. They'd have liked her. (I declined because I'd have been required to sign a vow to the Lord.) |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
1/16/24 11:35 am
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| Re: Mighty Army |
Link |
| jimmybee wrote: | | Aaron Scott wrote: | | Mighty Army wrote: | So, a prof at Lee cannot allow his spouse to attend an Episcopal church and is not allowed to attend and take communion? That’s what the fuss is about? While preachers attend events considered “worldly” all the time and nothing is ever said? A preacher can literally attend a concert by a secular band and a professor can’t attend a Christian church? Really?
This is so ludicrous that it’s hard to believe. |
Wrong on several counts.
Certainly a professor can "allow" his/her spouse to attend an Episcopal Church. Shoot, a professor's spouse might not even be saved!
But THE PROFESSOR must not--DARE NOT--partake. Not if you want to work for the Church of God. I don't apologize for that a bit. If they stand in opposition to our beliefs, let them go elsewhere to live, teach, attend, etc.
While it might be that a Church of God preacher should not attend a secular concert, there is a large difference between that and the affirmation of a lifestyle that God considers abominable, destroying a civilization because of it.
It's not about attending "a church." It's about attending an apostate church. If a professor wants to attend a Baptist church, that's one thing. But to attend--and take communion--at a church that actively embraces the godless reasoning about genderism and the whole LGBTQR+ package, that's a different thing altogether. |
As I asked earlier in another post, can you help provide a list of approved churches that are no Church of God for professors to attend?
Which Presbyterian churches are GTG (good to go)? What about the Methodist ones? I know the rainbow flag out front means we shouldn't set foot on the property - but if they don't have a flag flying, should someone ask at the door the greeter their stance? |
Presbyterians and Methodists practice infant baptism. An Anglican church could baptize believers, and could be conservative or could be in favor of homosexual behavior and child castration.
I don't think it is appropriate for Christians to go to LGBT affirming churches. I don't have a problem with a Christian university having a specific rule about it. But if they did it before a rule exists, then what? Why would it be wrong to point out the problem? |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
1/16/24 11:46 am
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| As radical and organized as the subversives are, an organization that does not take a firm stand on this issue may end up like the United Methodists (or should we say formerly United Methodists.) |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
1/16/24 11:47 am
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| ecumenical communion - yes or no |
Mat |
I find the discussion about communion, to participate or not depending on the which church you're at, interesting as it relates to the broader topic of the Lee U. faculty member and his wife's religion.
Like many of you, I've been in various denominations' services when communion is served. As to the Catholic Church, its a "closed" communion and I'm not welcome to receive it, which is OK with me because I don't believe in transubstantiation or the priest power to transform the wine and bread into the blood and body of Jesus. Likewise, I don't believe we "eat and drink" our salvation.
As to the Anglican tradition, from the spectrum of Episcopal to the Charismatic Anglican, I don't participate because again I'm not totally on board with consubstantiation. I don't believe the Anglican "priest" brings the presences, if not the substance, of Christ.
Since I'm an abstainer when it comes to alcohol, I'm generally careful about where I take communion. A few weeks ago I attended a conservative synagogue on a Sabbath to show my support for the Jewish people and Israel. At the end of the three hour service (much reading in Hebrew and English) they brought out trays of shot glasses which turned out to be schnapps. At first it seems like communion was about to take place, but the Jewish gentlemen who were helping me understand what was going on in the service, and getting me to the correct book and passage, told me they have some kind of liquor at the end of every service. I declined the schnapps telling them, with a smile, I had taken a Nazarite vow and could not drink strong drink. (Lechaim!)
As to the Church of God/Pentecostal tradition concerning communion - early on it was a "closed" communion for Christians only, often for members only. Today its not that way, with a variety of practices depending on your location.
I have seen churches, like Vineyards, who set up communion stations on either side of the stage so you can "serve yourself" during the praise and worship. No minister serving and no restrictions in participating. I don't think that's scriptural.
Should a Christian knowingly practice (receive) communion in a church where homosexuality is blessed? I would not. Is that any different then going to the feast at the temple of the idol and then going to the church and taking communion?
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1980
1/16/24 2:41 pm
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| Re: ecumenical communion - yes or no |
Link |
| Mat wrote: |
Should a Christian knowingly practice (receive) communion in a church where homosexuality is blessed? I would not. Is that any different then going to the feast at the temple of the idol and then going to the church and taking communion?
Mat |
Is it the doctrine that contaminates or also the lifestyle and genuineness of the people with whom you are participating? II Peter 3 speaks
For the former, I am thinking of the false teachers in II Peter 2
They are spots and blemishes, delighting in their deceptions as they feast with you.
There are the false brethren of Jude
These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear:
And a little leaven leavens a whole lump. We are to keep the feast not with the leaven of malice and wickedness in I Corinthians 5.
So what about partaking of communion in churches where people are divorced and remarried without Biblical grounds, or where someone is watching porn every day? |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
1/18/24 8:21 pm
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georgiapath |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | | Would that be the State Overseer of Tennessee? |
what is his name? |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7587
1/22/24 1:08 pm
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