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Are Pentacostals aging out like K-Mart and Sears? |
Cojak |
Our local church back home is aging out. A once vibrant local church with local members now probably has an average age of attendees of 58-60 . The # in attendance is now less than a forth of the attendance of 20 years ago.
Some of the regulars are now in local independent churches some attend the larger COG churches so their children would have some youth contact. Others just got to old to attend or died. We still have a couple in their 90s. The wife and I are in our 80s.
Why did K-Mart run Roses out of business. How did Walmart out step K-mart and Sears? Now Amazon is moving in, was it management?.
How did Walmart out step K-Mart when K mart already had supply lines and stores in place?
Could management from Top down in a church Denomination, even with dedicated members and Christian's still Kill it?
Is it a normal falling away? Is it the END times? Visiting churches now I hear sermons saying there will be a great revival before He returns, then others that say we have already had our revival...
We are COG but I see the same in AG and PH churches we attend.
some of us are confused! HONESTLY!
_________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 5/22/23 10:27 am
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Kmart/Walmart |
4thgeneration |
I worked at one of Kmart's distribution centers for about 5 years before going into ministry. I distinctly remember a meeting at the warehouse where I worked, led by one of the top executives of Kmart, where time for Q&A was given. The question was asked, "What is Kmart doing about the rise of Walmart?" The answer given by that executive was, "Walmart isn't a drop in the bucket when compared to Kmart."
As an employee I saw signs of trouble within the corporation.
Kmart stores had become old and tired, while Walmart was building bright new stores.
Kmart stores were not being adequately stocked with supplies, while Walmart seemed to always have what you needed. The Kmart store in the city where the warehouse that I worked at was located (a building of over 60 acres) would often not have in stock what you were looking for, in spite of the fact that there were plenty in the warehouse. We challenged the manager to that fact when he told us they couldn't get the items.
Kmart made a huge shift in executive roles, placing people in top positions that were not qualified. Those people began making drastic changes that simply would not work.
And so, here we are today. The warehouse that I worked in employed 1000 people at that time, but is no longer a Kmart warehouse, but some other business is housed there.
I see poor leadership decisions affecting Walmart today. Less cashiers and more self-checkout lines. Fewer employees on the floor to assist customers. If a shopper goes to a "brick and mortar" store, they want customer service. Walmart is instead minimizing customer service, and thereby making it easier to choose to go to Amazon and have it delivered to your front door.
As to the church... we should heed the warnings. I remember hearing John Maxwell say, "I could ride by some of your churches and tell I wouldn't want to attend there. The bushes aren't trimmed, the grass isn't cut, and the paint is peeling off the door. And if you won't take care of your building, you won't take care of your congregation."
Kmart got smug, lazy, and willing to let ill equipped people make decisions that were disastrous, while Walmart took over that niche in marketing. Now Walmart seems to be getting slack while Amazon dominates. If our churches don't offer what people need and are hungry for they will go and eat somewhere else. If our churches don't reach into the community to show that we care, the community won't come inside our buildings. If our churches act more like social clubs that are unwelcoming to outsiders, they will remain outside. If church leaders ignore the times, refuse to adjust to the seasons, and insist the world adapt to our out of date and out of touch methods, we can become the next Kmart in the church industry.
Just my O! |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1607 5/22/23 7:27 pm
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Re: Are Pentacostals aging out like K-Mart and Sears? |
FLRon |
Cojak wrote: | Our local church back home is aging out. A once vibrant local church with local members now probably has an average age of attendees of 58-60 . The # in attendance is now less than a forth of the attendance of 20 years ago.
Some of the regulars are now in local independent churches some attend the larger COG churches so their children would have some youth contact. Others just got to old to attend or died. We still have a couple in their 90s. The wife and I are in our 80s.
Why did K-Mart run Roses out of business. How did Walmart out step K-mart and Sears? Now Amazon is moving in, was it management?.
How did Walmart out step K-Mart when K mart already had supply lines and stores in place?
Could management from Top down in a church Denomination, even with dedicated members and Christian's still Kill it?
Is it a normal falling away? Is it the END times? Visiting churches now I hear sermons saying there will be a great revival before He returns, then others that say we have already had our revival...
We are COG but I see the same in AG and PH churches we attend.
some of us are confused! HONESTLY!
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I hear what you’re saying about aging. Our church is predominantly an older congregation, with many in their 70’s and 80’s. Naturally, the older folks are adverse to change, which means old hymns and old methods are the norm. Drives me crazy! I’m almost 70 and while I like most of the sacred Red Hymnal songs, young Christians do NOT want a steady diet of them. For that matter, try getting sinners engaged in I’ll Fly Away when all they know is what passes for country or modern pop.
As to your comment about a great revival vs a great falling away, I am firmly in the camp of the latter. Peter himself said on the day of Pentecost that what was being displayed was the fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy. That’s good enough for me. The last day outpouring draws a crowd (tickling ears anyone?), but it is not Biblical. _________________ “Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater Posts: 787 5/22/23 7:57 pm
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Preacher777 |
In my opinion Pentecostals are aging out and the Sears-Kmart is a great example of consumer driven Christianity.
The Pentecostals of old had more of a focus on the rewards of heaven and eternal rewards along with the everlasting torment of Hell. Compare that to the shift in the post WW II generation wanting to feel good now and have a focus on what the church can do for my family and I now. It seems the church went from extreme legalism to hyper grace and mercy. What benefit do we FEEL NOW by attending this church?
The older generations of Pentecostals understood delayed gratification as a way of life. Once saved the same principles that helped people work very hard while spending less to save money for a better life later were implemented into a spiritual focus of praying for hours and seeing results later. Pastors were willing to lead by example by working hard in the ministry without the drive to be successful with great honor and financial gain within the first five-10 years of ministry. Now there is such a focus and desire for people to build the big church right away, be the one telling others how to do it, lots of books, internet followers etc.
The older generations of Pentecostals were raised in a society where people gave their lives for the country, volunteered at fire departments and many other things. Presently many rural volunteer fire departments were phased out for lack of help from younger generations. Some areas in the country have a shortage or are not able to do military taps at funerals because the older veterans are dead or not physically able while they will tell you the younger veterans will not volunteer. Compare that with the difference in people plugging into a smaller church and helping out versus going somewhere with everything in place and paid staff committed to showing up doing things.
The older generations grew up sharing a radio, television and phone. The younger generations increase in he ability to have the music and everything else my way when I want it. If a person is simply given the sinners prayer recital form of salvation to make one's life better with a NOW focus rather than dying to self and separating form the world's selfishness of course they will want a consumer driven Christianity that accommodates their preferences. Which church offers me a quick service with convenient times with all of the sensory intake the way I want it?
I believe we will see a decrease in Pentecostals but there will always be some preaching and teaching salvation as deny yourself, take up your cross daily and follow Jesus. The masses do not want to hear about commitment, leaving the old life behind (the balance of sports, entertainment and self compared to focusing on spiritual growth) but God will always have some serving Him.
I am sure there are some very large churches that are growing and have navigated the challenge of adapting to the present culture without compromising the realities of dying to self, sin, commitment, delayed gratification and other things. This a a great challenge and why we must be called to pastor if leading a church in this day and age! |
Friendly Face Posts: 434 5/23/23 7:00 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
Congregations that do not remain in their first love for Christ and others will always die, even if they claim to be spiritually alive. See Revelation 2 & 3. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 5/23/23 8:37 am
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Da Sheik |
I don't think there's any one answer, I think it's an amalgamation of factors. I do believe we are living in days of apostasy and a lack of sound doctrinal teaching. Society has changed greatly. The Church used to be an important hub of society. Now it is just one "cog" (pardon the pun) in a giant wheel of options. We are more connected than we've ever been and yet so very disconnected at the same time. The mega churches are the outliers but they offer the worshipper a great experience, great music, and little in the way of accountability.
The places that are seeing true revival are the areas where they are most persecuted. The churches in Europe are mostly museums (in many cases mausoleums). America had a long run of prosperity and spiritual renewal. I think that has come to an end. It's not popular but I think it's the truth. But that's just one old man's opinion. Your mileage may vary. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1865 5/23/23 9:39 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
We are no different than ancient Israel - the Holy Spirit not-withstanding.
In times of great trouble - folks will return to the church.
Until then - everyone does what is right in their own eyes - including many churches.
Jesus is often tried as a last resort - when all other hope is lost. _________________ Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 5/23/23 10:33 am
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UncleJD |
Having just returned from the UK where there are SO many reminders of our spiritual heritage (for instance I stood next to the statue of the great reformer, John Knox right in the middle of the great St. Giles cathedral), I'd say that its not just our movement that is aging out. I was SHOCKED by the apathy in that land where just a few generations ago sent forth the greatest doctrine and missionaries the world has ever known. I saw giant statues of David Livingstone, I stood in the city of Oxford on the site where Latimer and Ridley were burned at the stake. I saw tributes to my Christian philosophical hero C.S. Lewis. There were reminders literally everywhere of what was once the most Christian nation on earth outside our own (and I daresay for many more centuries than ours). But where there was once admonitions to live rightly, there were now rainbows and messages of lgbtq affirmation on the doors of empty churches. Beautiful buildings with the stories of the saints of God etched on windows, now housing crafters' markets selling talismans of witchcraft. Yesterday I got an email that said the Church of Scotland would be closing hundreds of churches this year. The following stats were provided which brought me to tears. We used to think we were about a generation behind Europe in this growing spiritual vacuum, but we are within a couple of years now.
Quote: | According to 2021 numbers, the church has 283,600 members - down from a peak of 1.3 million in the late 1950s.
About 60,000 worship in person on a Sunday - down from 88,000 pre-Covid.
About 45,000 people now worship online and 8,275 in "other ways".
Each church averages just one wedding and one baptism per year - about 1,200 in total.
There were 50,000 per year in the late 1950s.
There were 430 professions of faith in 2021 (sometimes referred to as confirmation) compared with 40,000 at the peak of new members in the 1930s.
The average age of those attending church is 62.
........
The trustees said another problem was a lack of ministers, with more vacancies than ever before.
The vast majority of ministers are over the age of 50 and could retire in the next 10 years.
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These stats are just the Church of Scotland (about 2/3rds of all Christians in Scotland), but I don't think its a risk to say its indicative of every Christian movement.
As per everywhere else in Europe, excluding atheism, Islam is the fastest growing religion. We're coming to some very trying times. But look up, our redemption draws near. If not sooner, then hard times are drawing near, and when they get hard enough, the church will hopefully grow again.
Source https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-65645891?fbclid=IwAR29RY5FaIHV2SoVPE8L2arLK9AtQ0VDi78DCaoof8-Ag-e0WKzmf0l5Ugs
edit - My point is that I don't think we're more than a few years away from the same dearth of faith as is seen in Europe today. I spoke with one believer there who said that the religion of "equity" has replaced Christ in the UK, the rainbow and worship of the body of transgenders has replaced the Cross and the Body of Christ. Unless there is a great revival, America is NOT immune to this, its coming here. The lack of youth in small churches is just a symptom. The big churches aren't really as big as the losses from the small churches. They seem to be doing ok, but in reality they are only absorbing those on their way out the door in my opinion. It seems to me that for every 3 that leave the small church, 2 go to the big church for a little while and maybe one stays.
Last edited by UncleJD on 5/23/23 1:34 pm; edited 3 times in total |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3147 5/23/23 12:59 pm
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Some thoughts.... |
Aaron Scott |
I noticed that North Cleveland, every few years, updates itself. It might be an update in facilities or a refreshed vision, etc. But I have come to think that this "reinvention" (if that is the right word) is what has kept them a vibrant congregation.
At the same time, there is no denying that being so close to Lee University and having such "marquee" value has been essential. Big wigs and wealthy folks gravitate to it because it IS the North Cleveland Church of God.
But I have still come to believe that this reinvention is essential if churches are to survive. It enabled growth (since earlier facilities could not have handled the current volume of people very well).
When you see an old church (and mine is among the oldest in the Church of God--110 years old), it typically tells you something about those who attend there. If it is a bit run-down, it may be that due to the people being up in age, they cannot do all they used to do.
It can also tell you that the congregation is on fixed incomes.
It can also tell you that people may not even care.
Another thing is the pastoral quality. There is a reason that North Cleveland has always had top tier pastors. Very simply, the best of the best, if given the choice between a large church and all that comes with it...versus a church running 45 that needs a bi-vocational pastor, are going to chose the better situation. NOT because they are unwilling to go wherever God tells them to go, but most pastors don't typically have such a direct order from heaven. They either feel a check in their spirit...or leave to chose as they wish. And a pastor must think of his family. If they are used to having a large church, good compensation, and a nice parsonage, it only stands to reason that, without a clear word from the Lord, they will choose the better situation.
When my dad moved from his first church after nearly 25 years there, it began to taper off. People were so used to him that they went searching for that sort of thing elsewhere. Then a following pastor died. The church tapered off some more. By the time the next pastor got it (a very good pastor by the way), he was left fighting an uphill battle to find a way to get the church back into equilibrium. Eventually, though, he felt he had done what he could and moved on--which was quite reasonable.
But after that, there came pastor after pastor with very short tenures. And as churches get smaller and smaller, either the pastors who will take the church come more and more from the ranks of inexperience...or even when that is not the case, the pastors do not have the ability to turn the situation around and make it a thriving church once again.
In 10 years, the church went through nine pastors. It's no longer even a Church of God.
These things happen.
Then there is the area. What might have once been a beautiful, thriving area will, over time, turn into a lesser area, then a lesser area, until that church no longer holds the same appeal to the area, since the area has changed. Further, new churches have been built elsewhere, and it can be more convenient (maybe even safer!) to go to those new churches. And so you are left with those who, having no particular need (say for children's ministries) will hang in there, while others begin to drift away.
Churches have lifespans! There is a reason that some of the churches that we loved so much in our childhoods are but faint shadows of what they used to be in terms of facilities, money, pastors, and vibrancy.
There is a reason that I was chosen for the church I lead (I am the 50th pastor in 110 years--two pastors alone have made up 22 or those years--so do the math). If they could have gotten Loran Livingston, Tim Hill, or Mark Williams, don't you think they would have done that? So they finally asked me, and it so happened that it seemed the Lord was in it.
We have a good church. We do not have a large one. A rich one. Or one that holds a candle to the golden years of this church.
But old folks and old churches need pastoring too. After all, if we don't think young people's taste in music should be cramped by making them listen to Red Back hymns, then it stands to reason that neither should we force older folks to listen to music that is not to their taste (to be fair, our church likes much of the new--AND THE OLD).
As best we can, we are trying to update the property (we eventually had enough to start working on that). It will never be incredible, but we are assured that God placed us HERE...in a small, fading town, in the very place where the church was founded in 1913...in a neighborhood that is much changed from those days in WWI, the Great Depression, etc.
Like folks, churches grow old and began to wither away. Thankfully, the Lord often has a way of rejuvenating such churches...or, if not, then bringing up a new generation of churches to meet the needs of His people. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 5/23/23 1:21 pm
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Yes, Walmart is known for ... |
Mat |
Yes, Walmart is known for its supply chain and having to products people want to buy on the shelf everyday (not just "Blue Light Specials) at a good price.
Walmart is still a family business, it may be second generation, but there are Waltons to report to.
Kmart was known to have a very nice Headquarters in MI with many executives who often who would fly on company jets - Walmart used Southwest airlines and their Headquarters was (it may have changed) a group of medal buildings in AK.
I would say large independent churches have more in common with Walmart than Kmart (are they even still around?).
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1994 5/24/23 2:24 pm
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sheepdogandy |
Bro Kenny Morris addressed this issue last night at SPWC.
I invite you to access this message.
Go to our website (address below) click on the link to our Face book page and view for yourself.
For those of you unfamiliar with Bro Morris, do yourself a favor and view all of this week's services. _________________ Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7307 5/25/23 9:20 am
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Mat... |
Aaron Scott |
Mat wrote: | Yes, Walmart is known for its supply chain and having to products people want to buy on the shelf everyday (not just "Blue Light Specials) at a good price.
Walmart is still a family business, it may be second generation, but there are Waltons to report to.
Kmart was known to have a very nice Headquarters in MI with many executives who often who would fly on company jets - Walmart used Southwest airlines and their Headquarters was (it may have changed) a group of medal buildings in AK.
I would say large independent churches have more in common with Walmart than Kmart (are they even still around?).
Mat |
Mat, one of the other things that Sam Walton did was go where the JC Penney and Sears stores WERE NOT. That's why you'd find a Walmart well outside the city at some points. Basically, they set up where there was much less competition...until eventually they had the ability to set up right beside the big stores...and put them out of business.
Sadly, some Mom & Pops were put out of business.
If there is any truth for the COG, it is that we build and build and build...in areas that are already served by numerous Churches of God. Consider Cleveland--a mid-sized city with more Churches of God (19) than Wyoming and Montana together (a total of 9)!
Of course, that's not quite fair, for while the COG is dominant in the SE, the Assemblies of God have plenty of churches out west. So to say we want to put another church in Wyoming may mean that we wind up "stealing" people from other good Pentecostal churches. So there's that.
But there have to be areas where there are few churches, and where a Church of God could be a great blessing.
As far as I'm concerned, if the Church of God had some sort of ranking system that would tell us how many Pentecostal churches--or even churches in general--are in the area of a new church plant, that would inform us, perhaps, of where to put our money and efforts.
As it is, it seems new churches spring up near other churches, until either one church "wins" or many or most of the churches are too weak to be of much value. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 5/26/23 12:22 pm
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THE LOVE OF GOD |
I was on the state website for 2 states in the COG. I could not believe the attendance average commpared to what it used to be. I would say 90% were less than half of what they used to be. I am talking about even big churches that used to run 300+ were now running maybe 120.
I just could not believe the attendance numbers. I also know one other state that over 100 churches did not list their attendance and tithes. Usually they were the same churches each month. We were always told the reports were to be mailed in by the 5th of each month.
My heart breaks for the first 2 states that I was referring to.
Churchs need to go back to old fashion praying and seeking God. I do not even know of a COG in our present area that has Sunday night service. Revival is not heard of. |
Friendly Face Posts: 387 5/27/23 1:00 am
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FLRon |
THE LOVE OF GOD wrote: | I was on the state website for 2 states in the COG. I could not believe the attendance average commpared to what it used to be. I would say 90% were less than half of what they used to be. I am talking about even big churches that used to run 300+ were now running maybe 120.
I just could not believe the attendance numbers. I also know one other state that over 100 churches did not list their attendance and tithes. Usually they were the same churches each month. We were always told the reports were to be mailed in by the 5th of each month.
My heart breaks for the first 2 states that I was referring to.
Churchs need to go back to old fashion praying and seeking God. I do not even know of a COG in our present area that has Sunday night service. Revival is not heard of. |
Our church has an evangelistic service on Sunday nights, and the attendance is typically 70% of the morning crowd. We have some that come only to Sunday night but a lot of the morning crowd does come back. We do not have a mid-week service.
We are a dying church and I don’t know any other way to put it. The signs are everywhere. We are locked in the 70’s and the majority do not wish to leave. What hurts me the most is that no one wants to pray and seek the Lord for his direction. All I know is without a vision we don’t stand a chance. _________________ “Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater Posts: 787 5/27/23 3:21 pm
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THE LOVE OF GOD |
FLRon wrote: | THE LOVE OF GOD wrote: | I was on the state website for 2 states in the COG. I could not believe the attendance average commpared to what it used to be. I would say 90% were less than half of what they used to be. I am talking about even big churches that used to run 300+ were now running maybe 120.
I just could not believe the attendance numbers. I also know one other state that over 100 churches did not list their attendance and tithes. Usually they were the same churches each month. We were always told the reports were to be mailed in by the 5th of each month.
My heart breaks for the first 2 states that I was referring to.
Churchs need to go back to old fashion praying and seeking God. I do not even know of a COG in our present area that has Sunday night service. Revival is not heard of. |
Our church has an evangelistic service on Sunday nights, and the attendance is typically 70% of the morning crowd. We have some that come only to Sunday night but a lot of the morning crowd does come back. We do not have a mid-week service.
We are a dying church and I don’t know any other way to put it. The signs are everywhere. We are locked in the 70’s and the majority do not wish to leave. What hurts me the most is that no one wants to pray and seek the Lord for his direction. All I know is without a vision we don’t stand a chance. |
I agree with the dying church statement. I noticed one of our states is not listing the monthly statistics at all. I have searched the web site completely and cannot find it at all.
We were going to a one time big COG and they closed Sunday night service and then started having small groups different nights of the week at people's homes - so no Wed night service. They cancelled Sunday School. So really the pastor only preached one service a week. We wanted and needed more church than that, so we left to go to a church that had Sunday night and Wed. night (not COG). They have small groups too but it does not interfere with Wed. night service. We have been COG since 1976, love the church. I think people have just fallen out of love with the church. There are exceptions of course. Once a church closes Sunday night or Wed night, it is hard to get the people motivated to start it back up.
With these evil days upon us, we need more God!!! |
Friendly Face Posts: 387 5/30/23 1:24 am
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To be fair.... |
Aaron Scott |
Most of us were raised in 3-4 services a week churches. But in those days, even if everyone didn't come back on Sunday night, you still had a solid percentage in attendance.
If you have 1000 people, and only 700 show up on Sunday night, that should still give the inherent "crowd energy" that helps create expectancy, etc.
But if you have only 20 in Morning Worship...and only, say, 8 on Sunday night, it's very difficult to get up the energy and expectancy. Further, some folks come, NOT because they really want to be there (and it shows), but because they desire to be faithful to church. It's just the truth.
In my church, we had Sunday night services until I had a health issue and was in the hospital and out for over a month. It seemed to work, and no one acted like they wanted to start it back (and, frankly, I sure didn't if I was going to have to be exhausted from Sunday morning, then go back with only a handful). |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 6/3/23 2:59 pm
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Re: Are Pentacostals aging out like K-Mart and Sears? |
Gerald Abreu |
Cojak wrote: | Our local church back home is aging out. A once vibrant local church with local members now probably has an average age of attendees of 58-60 . The # in attendance is now less than a forth of the attendance of 20 years ago.
Some of the regulars are now in local independent churches some attend the larger COG churches so their children would have some youth contact. Others just got to old to attend or died. We still have a couple in their 90s. The wife and I are in our 80s.
Why did K-Mart run Roses out of business. How did Walmart out step K-mart and Sears? Now Amazon is moving in, was it management?.
How did Walmart out step K-Mart when K mart already had supply lines and stores in place?
Could management from Top down in a church Denomination, even with dedicated members and Christian's still Kill it?
Is it a normal falling away? Is it the END times? Visiting churches now I hear sermons saying there will be a great revival before He returns, then others that say we have already had our revival...
We are COG but I see the same in AG and PH churches we attend.
some of us are confused! HONESTLY!
|
Taken from the Revival List:
September 11th focused a lot of attention on the growth of Islam.
What most pundits and scholars have missed is the incredible
growth of Christianity, and where it's growing. We like to think of
ourselves as the Christian West. But there is growing evidence that
the center of Christendom has moved. Africans are running to accept
Jesus Christ. It is a scene playing out all across the developing world.
It may sound like an exaggeration, but it's not: Christianity is
sweeping across the southern hemisphere and Asia like a tidal wave.
"The scale of Christian growth is almost unimaginable," said Dr.
Philip Jenkins, distinguished professor of History and Religious
Studies at Penn State University.
Jenkins shocked and probably panicked some of America's political
and media elite with his acclaimed book, The Next Christendom:
The Coming of Global Christianity. Jenkins argues the greatest
movement of the past century was not communism or capitalism.
Do the math and the winner is Spirit-filled Christianity, or what he
terms in his study as "Pentecostalism."
The modern Pentecostal movement begins at the start of the 20th
century," Jenkins said. "So say this begins with a few hundred, a
few thousand people... today you're dealing with several hundred
million people, and the best projections are by 2040's or 2050's,
you could be dealing with a billion Pentecostals worldwide. By that
stage there will be more Pentecostals than Hindus. There are
already more Pentecostals than Buddhists." Jenkins says in just
20 years, two-thirds of all Christians will live in Africa, Latin America
or Asia.
Back in 1900, there were about 10 million Christians in Africa,
representing about 10 percent of the population. Today there are
360 million, representing just under half the population.
That is one of the most important changes in religious history, and
I think most of us didn't notice it," he said. A lot of people still
haven't noticed it. When scandal or controversy hits an American
church, the U.S. news media tends to treat it like a worldwide crisis
for that denomination.
But it is not a crisis for those churches in the developing world.
Most of them are not gripped by debates over homosexuality or
abortion that is a problem for European and American liberals -
they believe the Bible. "The Bible is alive in Africa and Asia and
Latin America,"
Jenkins said. "Overwhelmingly, th[is] kind of Christianity is one
which is very Bible-centered, which takes the Bible very seriously,
takes authority very seriously, both the Old and the New Testament,
in a way which I don't think western Christianity has done probably
since the Enlightenment." But the growth of Christianity threatens
Islam, and Christians are being slaughtered in places like Nigeria
and Indonesia.
Jenkins thinks the conflict will intensify in nations where the two
faiths compete. And he debunks the notion that Islam is the fastest
growing religion in the world. Christianity is growing faster. "If you
look at the 25 most populous countries in the world in the mid-21st
century, 20 of those are going to be divided to a greater or lesser
extent between Christianity and Islam," Jenkins said.
Then there is China. There are about 80 million Christians in China,
according to former Time Magazine Correspondent David Aikman,
who predicts China will be a Christianized nation in 20 to 30 years.
He does not predict a Christian majority, but a China that is 25 to
30 percent Christian. Enough, he says, to change society and
government...
And Aikman says the Chinese church leaders have a burden to take
the gospel the rest of the way across the globe, to the Muslims.
"It's part of a sense that they call 'back to Jerusalem,'" Aikman said.
African Matthew Ashimolowo is the pastor of the fastest growing
church in England. "God is sending people who used to receive
missionaries to now be missionaries around the world," Ashimolowo
said. Kenyan Bishop Gilbert Dya has one of the largest churches
in London.
"I am in this country, believing that God sent me here in Great Britain
to make a voice on His behalf to let them know that they need to
repent and come back to God," he said.
The developing world is not only a growing base for world Missions,
Jenkins says it is becoming the center of Christendom... again.
"Jesus said His church would last until the end of time. He never
used the word, 'Europe.' Christianity is returning, I think, to its
roots. It is a religion that originated in the Middle East and in
Africa. Perhaps it went away for a while, but now it's back,"
Jenkins said. _________________ http://geraldabreu.info
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
Abraham Lincoln
There are two ways to enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
John Adams |
Acts-celerater Posts: 900 6/11/23 11:53 am
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Can't tell a fork from toilet paper. |
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With all the modern translations trying to slightly differentiate the wording and the popularity of loose paraphrases like The Message and Passion versions, what do you think of using this phrase in Jonah 4:11?
Instead of 'cannot discern between their right hand and their left' how about 'cannot tell the difference between a fork and toilet paper?'
Jonah 4:11
And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?”
I notice some poor wording, grammatically, in some modern translations, throwing in interpretations in a translation that is supposed to be fairly literal, some odd wording. I think the issue is that in order to make money off a translation, it needs a copyright, which requires that it be a bit different from other translations. |
Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 6/12/23 1:09 am
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Why did Walmart win out? Back in the day, there needed to be a certain number of people in an area to justify a discount store-- maybe 100,000 or so. But Walmart used a computer inventory system which, at the time, waoadvanced, and allowed them to decrease the population they needed serve to be able to do so efficiently. Their inventory was well-organized, while K-Mart's probably wasn't as well organized.
My mom used to say she knew why Walmart was doing well and K-Mart was doing so poorly. If you to K-Mart, she said, you cannot find anything.
One of my marketing professors thought Sears made a mistake by selling it's brands in Walmart. Before buying Sears, if you go to Sears, you got the Sears paint. Customers use price as a proxy for quality. When they put the Sears paint in K-Mart right next to another product, customers say paint more expensive than Sears paint, and so they'd think, "Oh, this paint is higher quality than Sear's paint."
Eventually, Sears got bought out by a private equity investor who had another company. He'd lend money from Sears to his company, apparently to make money somehow. They sold off a bunch of stores.
I don't know that Amazon will gobble up all the business of Walmart. They are into grocery, and most people probably do not want to buy lettuce online. I don't always know what food I want to buy until I am at the store looking around. There are some things you want to see and try on or at least look at or touch.
I do get annoyed with the dozen empty spots reserved for people picking junk up from Walmart while people who are actually shopping there have to park in the nosebleed section of the parking lot. |
Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 6/12/23 1:16 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
WalMart is currently into a hard push to deliver groceries straight to the home.
A niche Amazon has not conquered.
Maybe churches can look into this. I know - we are to assemble together.
But still - let's take every opportunity. Try to give the human something they need - not just a live feed of your morning worship. _________________ Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 6/12/23 11:17 am
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