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Preacher777

A question about modern day salvation experiences

Preacher777 · Friendly Face Posts: 434 **12/16/22 7:37 am**

I remember when I and others around me were saved many years ago we were excited about Bible studies, reading the Bible and worshipping God at several church services a week. We repented and understood that salvation involved loving God with ALL of our heart, soul and mind. Christian music replaced the Rock N Roll scene. We knew that to grow in Christ we had to separate from old friends and hang out with the Christians.

Do you notice that those who are led through the sinners prayer these days seem to MAYBE attend consistently on Sunday but don't show a real desire to devote more time to spiritual growth? At different times I was told different people I know were now saved and attending church. I was excited but when talking with them about the Bible and suggesting they get involved with Bible studies saw no interest on their part. The adult children and grandchildren of friends fit the same pattern-regular or sporadic attendance but no interest in any other commitments.

I do see an exception to this rule among drug addicts who are save and need to cling to God. Do you see this trend of shallow experiences with God?

sheepdogandy

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7304 **12/16/22 11:19 am**

Repentance is the initial evidence of saving faith in Jesus Christ.

A willingness to live another way.

Shallow preaching and reciting the classic sinner's prayer don't cut it.

You gotta want it!
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God

www.spwc.church

FLRon

Acts-celerater Posts: 776 **12/16/22 4:19 pm**

I’m seeing a much shallower walk regardless of how that walk began. Attendance at prayer meeting is pitiful. Sunday morning Bible study attendance is almost as bad. Church attendance must compete with Disney, boating, fishing, or dozens of other activities here and no one seems to think such behavior denotes a problem. We are truly living in the age of apostasy and great falling away.

Thank the Lord for those few churches still growing and on fire, but they are few and far between.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham

Preacher777

Friendly Face Posts: 434 **12/17/22 6:01 pm**

Andy, you make a great point about shallow preaching without repentance resulting in Christianity without lifestyle changes. I also feel you summed things up well Ron.

Years ago one of my ministry mentors shared shortly before his impending death that he was concerned about the lack of preaching-teaching about Hell, sin and repentance in the modern day church. He shared concerns that without ever mentioning these things lawlessness would run rampant in the body of Christ.

I am far from an old time fire and brimstone preacher. However, I do feel that there are times we need to teach the principles, commands and rebukes that are in the Word of God. I do not feel them chastening of the Lord is only through some mysterious revelation but also happens through the preaching of God's Word.

Aaron Scott

AMEN, Preacher777!!!

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **12/22/22 10:25 am**

I, too, have noticed some changes. It seems to me that, back in the day, when someone got saved, they "really" got saved. That is, they started coming to church regularly, wanted to be in Sunday School, and were engaged in many, most, or all of the activities of the church.

But nowadays, people come and, IT SEEMS, get saved/reclaimed, but then within just a few services, they are out again.

If I had to describe it, I think I would say that it seems that the experience was far deeper back in the day. People seems overjoyed to be saved! Today, it doesn't seem like it did back then.

I have wondered if I was born out of season, for I seem so much better fitted to those days and times. I was not out of place in conservative churches, loved the style of worship, and loved the convicting preaching....

BUT I THINK I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE....

I don't know how old you are, but I can tell you that back in the 70s, we expected Jesus to come AT ANY MOMENT, it seemed. If I walked into the house and I couldn't find mom or dad, then even though I was saved, I began to wonder if Jesus had come back and I had missed the rapture.

I'm not a pre-tribber, but I do believe that Jesus can come at any moment.

BUT NOT LIKE I DID THEN.

Part of that feeling was a denomination-wide emphasis on evangelism, as we tried to reach the lost in the "last days" before Jesus returned!

Today, I have to admit that while I look for the Lord to return, I would happily take a million dollar bet that He wouldn't return tonight.

AND THAT'S A SHAME.

I believe He could. I hope He will. But it does not move me like it once did.

I recall that at Florida Youth Camp, we'd watch "Like a Thief in the Night" each year, and it weighed heavily upon me as we boys walked back to the dormitory.

I think it is that element that has changed. If people still felt that, and if people could still convey that, I dare say we'd start seeing salvations have the same long-lasting results as we did in yesteryear.

caseyleejones

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11796 **12/22/22 11:36 am**

Just an observation but, decisions for Christ today seem to be different than what I remember in the 70's and 80's.

Then again, Spurgeon would not do altar calls because he did not want the emotional side attached. He believed if the HS conviction is there that evening, it will still be there the next day when they made an office visit.

That's all I got. (shrug)

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12799 **12/23/22 10:30 am**

It seems to me that a major factor in this is the apparently total lack of emphasis on purity/holiness of heart as a clearly scriptural condition of salvation, that biblical faith receives the sanctifying power of God just as surely as the justifying and pardoning power of God. (By the way, I am not defining holiness/sanctification by a dress code or list of ‘dos and donts’. However holiness of heart and life works out in the life of the believer on a practical level, it cannot be rightly denied that without it, no one shall see God).

This lack of emphasis on purity of heart and the transforming, sanctifying power of God in the believer’s life is one reason for instance we have so-called Christians like Amy Grant affirming LGBTQ lifestyles as acceptable. Connected to this is the equally unscriptural concept that many evangelicals have promoted for many years now, that God’s love is unconditional. If there truly are no conditions at all attached to salvation, it then follows that everybody is saved regardless of how they believe or live.

Love warns both the sinner and the righteous to turn from sin and to get yourself a new heart and a new spirit.

caseyleejones

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11796 **12/23/22 1:05 pm**

Did I get this right that Amy Grant is now an advocate of the LGBTQ community? I know she is hosting a wedding. But it seems she has gone further.

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12799 **12/23/22 6:17 pm**

I am not sure how one can agree to perform a homosexual wedding and not by definition be an advocate for such.

Aaron Scott

Quiet Wyatt...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **12/23/22 9:49 pm**

I think you have a point about the emphasis on holiness/purity. While it was often defined in a way that had to do with dress codes and the such, I think it was effective because IT DID REQUIRE SOMETHING OF THE BELIEVER.

In our world today, I wonder if new believers not only see no extensive difference between a church members behavior and their own (assuming they are a fairly decent person), but neither do they HEAR any real call to "come out from among them." Or, if they do hear the preached, it can be an abstraction.

This is MY OPINION, but I wonder if the stressing of outward adornment had, at least in many cases, a positive benefit, in that it was a visible example of (in its way) "coming out from among them"? When all a new believer hears is something along the lines of "now that you are saved, be sure to read your Bible and come back to church," (you get the idea), it might be that it sends the message that there is no extensive changes needed.

FURTHER--and this is important--such challenging "requirements" as we used to have likely not only sent a message that changes would need to be made, but also weeded out those who wanted Jesus without making any real changes.

That is, if someone believed, but was unwilling to do this or that, it likely was to some degree a reflection of the heart. I have long felt that the early Church of God (say through the 60s at least) had what they had precisely because they WERE willing to give up ANYTHING to be right with God. Yes, some of those things were not required by God...some of those things were just the preferences of the pastor...some of those things were perhaps even wrong...but if the believer was indeed willing to do pretty much ANYTHING to be right with God, that had to matter in heaven!

No doubt thousands of women who didn't feel convicted about pants, makeup, or jewelry STILL set those things aside in order to not only be pleasing to the Lord, but to be in good fellowship with the local church where they were saved.

And while I don't think all of those things are necessary, it sure seems that those type of believers have old-time moves of God more often than do others. Maybe because they are willing???

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12799 **12/23/22 10:09 pm**

The whole problem as I see it with the specific dress-codes (beyond simply the scriptural emphasis of modesty), is that such ideas give people an entirely wrongheaded concept of what God required of them—holiness of HEART that flows into the life/good works.

Sorry, but I’ve known far too many ‘holiness’ folks who gave holiness a bad name. A person is not holy by what they wear or don’t wear. Isaiah was a holy prophet while prophesying with no clothes as well as while clothed. In general, modesty is of course the standard, but even then, that varies between cultures and is not absolute.

The holiness God requires and imparts by His Spirit is true purity of heart/intention, the perfect love of God which casts out all fear. This must, by definition, transform the life of the believer so sanctified.

Aaron Scott

Quiet Wyatt...yep

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **12/23/22 10:26 pm**

Indeed, we all know that some of those things had no strong basis in scripture. I believe that it was an honest attempt to clarify what "modesty" actually meant, but once you do that, then someone does something that you forgot to list, and so the list has to be updated. And that was pretty much, it seems, how the Pharisees had gotten into their rigid ways.

However, despite the stringency of it (especially in our modern eyes), it did serve the purpose, I think, of letting us know just who was fully serious. For if they were willing to do those things, surely they were willing to do whatever the Lord wanted.

Of course, those who didn't do those things could also be in dead earnest about serving the Lord. But just as God looks on the heart, man looks on the outward appearance. In other words, the outward was a way that we could SEE...and from that, it was not hard to believe that such folks must be in earnest.

In time, we lifted those requirements. Alas, now that there are virtually no requirements except to moderate extremes, we find no real guidance.

I believe that people WANT to be led aright. As one of my friends, John Spratlin, put it many years ago (in so many words), "People are sheep, and they need to be led." But if we offer no guidance that can be objectively seen (e.g., no smoking, drinking, etc.), then it might be that what we do offer is so vague and intangible (e.g., "make sure your motives are correct") that it just might not be suitable for getting folks to the deeper walk we want them to have.

At least that's a bit like I see it. As you know, I don't preach harshness or the such, but I have wondered if that call to the OUTWARD expression of inward holiness (if it has no effect that can be seen, then I am going to wonder just how the inside is doing) might also have to do with helping new believers lock in more strongly.

Link

Re: A question about modern day salvation experiences

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **12/26/22 11:26 am**

Preacher777

Other observations about helping new Christians develop a deeper walk

Friendly Face Posts: 434 **1/13/23 7:39 am**

Thanks for all of the great feedback. Several people mentioned shallow preaching, a repeat it sinners prayer for a ticket to heaven without repentance, lack of emphasis on the return of Christ and evangelism along with the need to exercise one's will to change. I feel these are very accurate observations.

I believe another challenge to seeing new Christians with a deep spiritual walk is the lack of commitment among the established Christians. How can new Christians come out of a lifestyle that is so much more into sin than 30-50 years ago when the examples of Christians around them are people who may make it to church on Sunday? How can a young person learn about holiness when a majority or huge percentage of singles around them in the church are not waiting until marriage to vacation and live together?

We teach leaders that midweek service and prayer meetings are not just to benefit them. We need them to set an example for those who lack discipline to pray and have never studied the Bible. Most leaders admit that if they are not attending a prayer meeting they themselves probably would not have the discipline to set themselves apart for an hour of prayer during the week.