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 Thank God for the Law!!! |
maqqebet |
For the Apostle Paul, the sacred writings (2 Timothy 3:15) included the Law and therefore God-breathed and "profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
Paul also writes...
"...for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified" - Romans 2:13
The Law is..."the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth" - Romans 2:20
"because by the works of the Law no flesh will justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin" - Romans 3:20 [And how is this a bad thing if such knowledge brings conviction, repentance, and salvation through faith/trust?]
"Do we nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." Romans 3:31
"What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, 'You shall not covet." [In other words, the Law defined sin for us and through this definition/knowledge, we are able to repent and be saved by faith.]
"But sin, taking opportunity through the commandments, produced coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment which was to result in life proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful. For we know the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin." Romans 7:7-13
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walking according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." - Romans 8:2-3 [The weakness of the Law is not found in the Law itself, but in sinful flesh's inability to fulfill the Law unless transformed and empowered by the Holy Spirit.]
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, 'You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in the saying, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law" - Romans 13:8-10
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. - Galatians 3:24
But we know the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, fur murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. 1 Timothy 1:8-11
Indeed, we cannot be saved by the works of the Law (Ephesians 2:8-9), a self-imposed self-righteousness (Romans 10:3) substituted for God's true righteousness.
Thankfully, we find the Law defines sin, the Holy Spirit convicts of us, we repent and embrace Jesus as our Redeemer and Savior, and conduct our lives accordingly: Love God and Love others as Ourselves.
_________________
The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
6/12/16 3:50 pm
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| maggebet |
JLarry |
If you break one of those commandments you are guilty of all.
Better check out those laws very close and make sure you abide.
BTW, you broke one by writing on Sunday. Or the day we celebrate as the Sabbath.
_________________
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No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
6/12/16 4:41 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Excellent post, Mark. No one who carefully reads it, instead of just skimming over it, can rightly say anything against it. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
6/12/16 4:57 pm
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| JLarry, thank you for your insight and admonishment. |
maqqebet |
Through the years I have examined the Law and discovered the following:
Tradition states there are 613 Commandments, 365 negative, 248 positive.
Of the 613 Commandments a significant number applied only to the Priest and Levites and do not apply to the others...
Some of those commandments apply solely to men, some solely to women. Only men can be circumcised, and men don't have to concern themselves with the issue of a woman's purification.
So, while there were 613 not all applied to everyone.
Now, if we examine the Original 10 Commandments some applied to our relationship with God, and the others addressed relationships with others. Both categories were summarized by Jesus in Matthew 22:37-39 and cited Deuteronomy 6:5, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind." The second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18).
Paul picked up on the latter in Romans 13:8-10.
Now, as for breaking the Sabbath by writing on Sunday "or the day we celebrate as the Sabbath."
Sunday has never been the Sabbath, it has a always the first day of the week. The Church never had authority to change the Sabbath. Sunday is a tradition.
No harm though, Paul said some treat all days the same while others choose to honor a single day.
Finally, if you had not simply made some assumptions and read the original post you would realize your concerns for me and my observation are misplaced.
And you might have realized the name is not maggebet but maqqebet...
Shalom!
_________________
The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
6/12/16 10:04 pm
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bonnie knox |
Reading and spelling are in different parts of the brain. I have to keep looking back to see how to spell maqqebet even though I've read it many times.
And what are "fur murderers"?
| Quote: | | for those who kill their fathers or mothers, fur murderers and immoral men |
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[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
6/12/16 10:22 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
Charles Spurgeon said,
| Quote: | | “The law serves a most necessary purpose. They [unbelievers] will never accept grace until they tremble before a just and holy Law. |
”
Martin Luther said,
| Quote: | | “So it is with the work-righteous and the proud unbelievers. Because they do not know the law of God, which is directed against them, it is impossible for them to know their sin.” |
Martyn Lloyd-Jones said,
| Quote: | | “The trouble with people who are not seeking for a Savior, and for salvation, is that they do not understand the nature of sin. It is the peculiar function of the law to bring such an understanding to a man’s mind and conscience.” |
John Bunyan said,
| Quote: | | “In my preaching of the Word, I took special notice of this one thing, namely, that the Lord did lead me to begin where His Word begins with sinners; that is, to condemn all flesh, and to open and allege that the curse of God, by the law doth belong to and lay hold on all men as they come into the world, because of sin.” |
Paris Reidhead said,
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“I would declare a moratorium on public preaching of the “the plan of salvation” in America for one to two years. Then, I would call on everyone who has use of the airwaves and the pulpits to preach the holiness of God, the righteousness of God, and the law of God, until sinners would cry out, “What must we do to be saved?” Then, I would take them off in a corner and whisper the gospel to them… Such drastic action is needed because we have gospel-hardened a generation of sinners by telling them how to be saved before they have any understanding why they need to be saved.” |
John MacArthur said,
| Quote: |
“Grace means nothing to a person who does not know he is sinful and that such sinfulness means he is separated from God and damned. It is therefore pointless to preach grace until the impossible demands of the law and the reality of guilt before God are preached.” |
Charles Spurgeon said,
| Quote: |
“I do not believe that any man can preach the gospel who does not preach the law.” |
John Wesley said,
| Quote: | | “Before I can preach love, mercy, and grace, I must preach sin, law and judgment.” |
George Whitfield said,
| Quote: | | “That is the reason we have so many ‘mushroom’ converts, because their stony ground is not plowed up; they have not got a conviction of the law; they are stony-ground hearers.” |
Martin Luther said,
| Quote: | | “Satan, the god of all dissension, stirreth up daily new sects, and last of all, which of all other I should never have foreseen or once suspected, he has raised up a sect such as teach…that men should not be terrified by the law, but gently exhorted by the preaching of the grace of Christ.” |
Paris Reidhead said,
| Quote: |
“When 100 years ago earnest scholars decreed that the law had no relationship to the preaching of the gospel, they deprived the Holy Spirit in the area where their influence prevailed of the only instrument with which He had ever armed Himself to prepare sinners for grace.” |
John R.W. Stott said,
| Quote: | | “We cannot come to Christ to be justified until we have first been to Moses to be condemned. But once we have gone to Moses and acknowledged our sin, guilt and condemnation, we must not stay there.” |
Dr. J Gresham Machen said,
| Quote: | | “A new and more powerful proclamation of [the] law is perhaps the most pressing need of the hour; men would have little difficulty with the gospel if they had only learned the lesson of the law.” |
D.L. Moody said, | Quote: | “I can always tell a man who is near the kingdom of God; his mouth is stopped. This, then, is why God gives us the law. To show us ourselves in our true colors.”
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_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/12/16 10:26 pm
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| R. Skeptic, |
maqqebet |
I have found Paris Reidhead to be a unique, interesting, and challenging individual.
I really appreciate his insights...
This isn't a highjack if I've posted the original, is it?
P.S.: thanks for all the quotes...
_________________
The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
6/12/16 10:48 pm
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| Re: Thank God for the Law!!! |
bradfreeman |
| maqqebet wrote: | | For the Apostle Paul, the sacred writings (2 Timothy 3:15) included the Law and therefore God-breathed and "profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17) |
I'm sure you will acknowledge that first you are assuming that that Paul meant the Law in 2 Tim. 3:15. It's a fair assumption. I'm sure you will also acknowledge that these scriptures are written for Jesus and about Jesus.
"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;" Jn. 5:39
�Then I said, �Behold, I have come (In the scroll of the book it is written of Me) To do Your will, O God.�� Heb. 10:7
And I'm sure you will acknowledge that these scriptures painted shadowy pictures of Jesus.
"For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near." Heb 10:1
And I'm sure you will acknowledge that all of these shadowy pictures were realized and fulfilled in Christ.
"Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day� 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." Col. 2:16,17
"Now He said to them, �These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.� Luke 24:44
| Quote: | aul also writes...
"...for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified" - Romans 2:13 |
I'm sure you will acknowledge that Paul's point in Romans 2, in context, was not to suggest that anyone will be justified by keeping the law, but that those under the Law will be judged by the Law and found to fall short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:10,23).
"For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified." Rom. 2:12,13
| Quote: |
The Law is..."the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth" - Romans 2:20 |
Now this one worries me about you. You clearly cropped this one, not just a little out of context, but way out of context. Here it is in context:
"But if you bear the name �Jew� and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18 and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, 21 you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal?" Rom. 2:17-21
Clearly, Paul is saying these so-called "Jews" relied, boasted about, knew and were confident in some things. He is saying these Jews wrongly and hypocritically believed that they were "a guide", "a light", "a corrector", "a teacher", and possessed "the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth". They were wrong on every count.
In John 8, Jesus told the experts in the Law that they did not know the truth.
"So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, �If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.� 33 They answered Him, �We are Abraham�s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, �You will become free�?�
34 Jesus answered them, �Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36 So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed." John 8:31-36
The Law is not the truth. It simply foreshadowed and spoke of the truth that would be realized in Christ. Jesus is the truth that makes people free.
"For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ." Jn 1:17
| Quote: | | "because by the works of the Law no flesh will justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin" - Romans 3:20 [And how is this a bad thing if such knowledge brings conviction, repentance, and salvation through faith/trust?] |
This passage clears up the confusion you created by quoting Romans 2:13 out of context and suggesting that the doers of the Law will be justified. They won't.
| Quote: | | "Do we nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." Romans 3:31 |
I'm not sure what your purpose is in pulling this passage out of context but, in context, Paul is simply saying that the message of Christ validates the witness or purpose of the scriptures in foreshadowing, picturing and prophesying His coming.
"But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;" Rom. 3:21,22
| Quote: | "What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, 'You shall not covet." Rom 7:7
[In other words, the Law defined sin for us and through this definition/knowledge, we are able to repent and be saved by faith.] |
You suggest that the knowledge of good and evil is a good thing. Paul wasn't saying it was good. Paul was saying it killed him. If we see the Law speaking about Jesus and pointing us to Him, we find life. If we the Law speaking about us and pointing at us, we find death.
"But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;" Rom. 7:8
Paul, like Adam, wrongly thought he could find life in the knowledge of good and evil/Law.
| Quote: | For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walking according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." - Romans 8:2-3
[The weakness of the Law is not found in the Law itself, but in sinful flesh's inability to fulfill the Law unless transformed and empowered by the Holy Spirit.] |
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, 'You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in the saying, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law" - Romans 13:8-10[/quote]
The fruit of the Spirit is love. God is love and is producing His very life of love in us. Jesus came to "fulfill" the Law (Mt. 5:17,1 and is the love that fulfills the law and showed us "greater love". Now He lives in us and loves thru us so that we can fulfill His "new commandment" (Jn. 13:34). His love in us does not make us debtors to the Law or the flesh.
[quote]Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. - Galatians 3:24
The Law foreshadowed and prophesied His coming - it led us to Him. Here's the rest of the story...
"25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:25,26
| Quote: | | "But we know the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, fur murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. 1 Timothy 1:8-11 |
We are the righteous.
| Quote: | | Indeed, we cannot be saved by the works of the Law (Ephesians 2:8-9), a self-imposed self-righteousness (Romans 10:3) substituted for God's true righteousness. |
We cannot be saved by the Law.
We cannot find life in the Law.
We cannot be blessed by the Law.
We cannot be joined to Christ by the Law.
We cannot receive miracles by the Law.
We cannot be justified by the Law.
But we can have all these things thru faith in the One the Law witnessed, foretold and foreshadowed.
| Quote: | | Thankfully, we find the Law defines sin, the Holy Spirit convicts of us, we repent and embrace Jesus as our Redeemer and Savior, and conduct our lives accordingly: Love God and Love others as Ourselves. |
Was it the Spirit of God that convicted that woman in John 8 of adultery and wanted to stone her to death? Or was it the Law that brought the "knowledge of sin"?
The Spirit convicts of only 1 sin, unbelief. He brings us to faith in Christ.
"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged." John 16:8-11
The Spirit doesn't guide us into the Law (the knowledge of sin), He guides us into Truth (righteousness in Christ).
"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. John 16:13,14
In Christ, our sin is gone - to be remembered no more. Heb. 8:12; Heb. 9:26; Heb. 10:10-14
"For sin shall not be master over you, for [b]you are not under law but under grace.[/b]" Rom. 6:14
Since we are under grace. Perhaps it would be good to talk about that and thank God for that.
The Law is the ministry of condemnation and death and veils men's hearts and minds to Christ.
"But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.
12 Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, 13 and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. 14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. " 2 Cor. 3:7-13
The Law is a dividing wall that was broken down, abolished and put to death at the cross.
"Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called �Uncircumcision� by the so-called �Circumcision,� which is performed in the flesh by human hands� 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and [i]broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances[/b], so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. Eph. 2:11-16
Why would we want to rebuild what Christ has broken down?
Why would we want to make a distinction between Jew and Gentile when Christ has made us 1 new man?
Why would we try to bring to life something Christ "put to death"?
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
6/13/16 6:07 am
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| I pulled nothing out of context |
maqqebet |
you suggesting so is like the kettle calling the pot black...
_________________
The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
6/13/16 7:39 am
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| Re: I pulled nothing out of context |
bradfreeman |
| maqqebet wrote: | | you suggesting so is like the kettle calling the pot black... |
Thanks for your thorough, thoughtful and scripturally supported response. 
Regardless, I put the scriptures back into context for you.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
6/13/16 7:57 am
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| Re: I pulled nothing out of context |
Resident Skeptic |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | maqqebet wrote: | | you suggesting so is like the kettle calling the pot black... |
Thanks for your thorough, thoughtful and scripturally supported response.
Regardless, I put the scriptures back into context for you. |
Nowhere did the author of this thread claim that we are "justified by the Law". Rather, he was simply pointing out how the Law shows that we need to be and can only be justified by faith.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/16/16 8:06 am
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| well Brad... |
maqqebet |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | maqqebet wrote: | | you suggesting so is like the kettle calling the pot black... |
Thanks for your thorough, thoughtful and scripturally supported response. :lol:
Regardless, I put the scriptures back into context for you. |
Where you use Paul's words to repudiate the Law, I use Paul's words to exalt the Law.
In other words, to bring balance to Paul's message.
We both agree that we are not saved by works of the law and by faith alone, but I show where the Law, in Paul's usage, is good when applied correctly.
Perhaps together we can leave the readers with a balanced presentation of Paul's views regarding the Law.
However, I suspect you won't leave it at that and will continue to present a one-sided position that leaves the reader with a distorted message
_________________
The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
6/16/16 5:12 pm
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| Re: well Brad... |
Nature Boy Florida |
| maqqebet wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | maqqebet wrote: | | you suggesting so is like the kettle calling the pot black... |
Thanks for your thorough, thoughtful and scripturally supported response.
Regardless, I put the scriptures back into context for you. |
Where you use Paul's words to repudiate the Law, I use Paul's words to exalt the Law.
In other words, to bring balance to Paul's message.
We both agree that we are not saved by works of the law and by faith alone, but I show where the Law, in Paul's usage, is good when applied correctly.
Perhaps together we can leave the readers with a balanced presentation of Paul's views regarding the Law.
However, I suspect you won't leave it at that and will continue to present a one-sided position that leaves the reader with a distorted message
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That's a fact, jack!
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
6/16/16 5:56 pm
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| Re: well Brad... |
diakoneo |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | maqqebet wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | maqqebet wrote: | | you suggesting so is like the kettle calling the pot black... |
Thanks for your thorough, thoughtful and scripturally supported response.
Regardless, I put the scriptures back into context for you. |
Where you use Paul's words to repudiate the Law, I use Paul's words to exalt the Law.
In other words, to bring balance to Paul's message.
We both agree that we are not saved by works of the law and by faith alone, but I show where the Law, in Paul's usage, is good when applied correctly.
Perhaps together we can leave the readers with a balanced presentation of Paul's views regarding the Law.
However, I suspect you won't leave it at that and will continue to present a one-sided position that leaves the reader with a distorted message
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That's a fact, jack! |
Yes it is!  |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
6/16/16 9:38 pm
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| Re: well Brad... |
bradfreeman |
| diakoneo wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | maqqebet wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | maqqebet wrote: | | you suggesting so is like the kettle calling the pot black... |
Thanks for your thorough, thoughtful and scripturally supported response.
Regardless, I put the scriptures back into context for you. |
Where you use Paul's words to repudiate the Law, I use Paul's words to exalt the Law.
In other words, to bring balance to Paul's message.
We both agree that we are not saved by works of the law and by faith alone, but I show where the Law, in Paul's usage, is good when applied correctly.
Perhaps together we can leave the readers with a balanced presentation of Paul's views regarding the Law.
However, I suspect you won't leave it at that and will continue to present a one-sided position that leaves the reader with a distorted message
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That's a fact, jack! |
Yes it is! |
So, if I hadn't presented the rest of the story the readers would have your unbalanced presentation to consider?
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
6/17/16 1:18 pm
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| No, Brad... |
maqqebet |
the issue is in your posts, which make legitimate claims regarding the Law, you leave the reader with a distorted view of the Law because you do not present Paul's balanced views.
I wouldn't have to post the other side of the coin if you produced both sides.
As I have suggested on other occasions, we both agree that we are not under the law, we are not saved by works of the law.
Yet, Paul realized the shortcoming of the law lies within man not the law itself.
Yet, it defines sin, determines the consequences of sin, and yet points to the Messiah Jesus who is the remedy for sin through His death and resurrection.
We have the enabling presence of the Holy Spirit to help us, to teach us, to guide us.
And, as I have pointed out, as God-inspired, the law is beneficial when used appropriately.
So, a balanced presentation is what I desire. The Law is inspired, it has benefit, while it is also lacking in its ability to remedy sin and provide salvation.
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The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
6/17/16 1:59 pm
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| Re: No, Brad... |
Resident Skeptic |
| maqqebet wrote: | the issue is in your posts, which make legitimate claims regarding the Law, you leave the reader with a distorted view of the Law because you do not present Paul's balanced views.
I wouldn't have to post the other side of the coin if you produced both sides.
As I have suggested on other occasions, we both agree that we are not under the law, we are not saved by works of the law.
Yet, Paul realized the shortcoming of the law lies within man not the law itself.
Yet, it defines sin, determines the consequences of sin, and yet points to the Messiah Jesus who is the remedy for sin through His death and resurrection.
We have the enabling presence of the Holy Spirit to help us, to teach us, to guide us.
And, as I have pointed out, as God-inspired, the law is beneficial when used appropriately.
So, a balanced presentation is what I desire. The Law is inspired, it has benefit, while it is also lacking in its ability to remedy sin and provide salvation. |
From Brad I predict a response that ignores your points and continues to misrepresent your view in 5,4,3,2......
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/17/16 2:28 pm
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| Re: No, Brad... |
bradfreeman |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | maqqebet wrote: | the issue is in your posts, which make legitimate claims regarding the Law, you leave the reader with a distorted view of the Law because you do not present Paul's balanced views.
I wouldn't have to post the other side of the coin if you produced both sides.
As I have suggested on other occasions, we both agree that we are not under the law, we are not saved by works of the law.
Yet, Paul realized the shortcoming of the law lies within man not the law itself.
Yet, it defines sin, determines the consequences of sin, and yet points to the Messiah Jesus who is the remedy for sin through His death and resurrection.
We have the enabling presence of the Holy Spirit to help us, to teach us, to guide us.
And, as I have pointed out, as God-inspired, the law is beneficial when used appropriately.
So, a balanced presentation is what I desire. The Law is inspired, it has benefit, while it is also lacking in its ability to remedy sin and provide salvation. |
From Brad I predict a response that ignores your points and continues to misrepresent your view in 5,4,3,2...... |
Sorry to to disappoint. I went point by point through his post.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
6/18/16 7:42 am
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