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 Interesting Business Meeting |
c6thplayer1 |
A fiend of mine was telling me of an experience he had with a local COG. Here it is.
He attended a business meeting where the financial stats were discussed. They were vague when it came to the salaries of the staff. He said those stats were lumped into one category and not broken out individually. So he asked the question if they could be broken into individual categories. The business manager of the church replied that it was none of his business and that he didn't ask how much money he made in his place of employment. My friend just sat down and didn't challenge the business manager. Big mistake in my opinion. Needless to say my friend no longer attends that church. He was a consistent tithe payer.
As far as I know they still practice the same methods in their business meetings. The finances in my church are completely transparent as they should be. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
1/5/16 1:37 pm
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| Re: Interesting Business Meeting |
Cojak |
| c6thplayer1 wrote: | A fiend of mine was telling me of an experience he had with a local COG. Here it is.
He attended a business meeting where the financial stats were discussed. They were vague when it came to the salaries of the staff. He said those stats were lumped into one category and not broken out individually. So he asked the question if they could be broken into individual categories. The business manager of the church replied that it was none of his business and that he didn't ask how much money he made in his place of employment. My friend just sat down and didn't challenge the business manager. Big mistake in my opinion. Needless to say my friend no longer attends that church. He was a consistent tithe payer.
As far as I know they still practice the same methods in their business meetings. The finances in my church are completely transparent as they should be. |
There should always be transparency, secrets have a way of causing a lot of trouble.
What a sickening attitude of a Business manager. It is no one's business what you make on the job, UNLESS SOME OF THEIR FINANCES ARE ALSO PAYING YOUR SALARY. That if the major difference. 
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http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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1/5/16 1:42 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
That definitely could have been handled with more tact. I've heard of some churches lumping all salaries into one category and leaving it at that on the financial report. Even with that, unless we're talking about a really big (mega) church, it wouldn't be too hard to figure out roughly how much each makes.
Every church I've pastored has included my salary in the financial report. It may seem a little uncomfortable to include that at first, but really it just needs to be done. |
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Posts: 12804
1/5/16 2:02 pm
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Da Sheik |
| Whenever transparency is discouraged you can rest assured that integrity is being compromised at best. I have never earned a salary in which the amount was kept a secret from those who pay it. Ever. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1862
1/5/16 2:24 pm
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| my thoughts |
wayne |
| I would have challenged the Bus. Mgr.(because he is also paid by the money brought into the church) and then if I didn't receive the answer I wanted, I would have went to the Pastor, District overseer or State overseer... and then if I didn't get the answer I wanted, I would have left the church. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1274
1/5/16 2:51 pm
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| Some really petty comments I think |
brotherjames |
| Why do you care what the pastor makes? My salary is set by the Board of Deacons who are elected by the congregation to handle financial matters. We report the bulk salaries to the church each year but we have 10 paid staff so no one knows who gets what. I don't really.care one way or the othet but it seems petty to me to actually say you would leave a church because they don't tell you the Pastor's salary. I wouldn't want you to stay in my church if you were that small. You'd probably be a trouble maker anyway. Hmmm |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
1/5/16 6:33 pm
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sheepdogandy |
Itemized financial statement posted on the bulletin board for all to see.
Yes, my salary and benefits are there too.
No negative feedback in over twenty years.
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Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7304
1/5/16 6:47 pm
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| Re: Some really petty comments I think |
c6thplayer1 |
| brotherjames wrote: | | Why do you care what the pastor makes? My salary is set by the Board of Deacons who are elected by the congregation to handle financial matters. We report the bulk salaries to the church each year but we have 10 paid staff so no one knows who gets what. I don't really.care one way or the othet but it seems petty to me to actually say you would leave a church because they don't tell you the Pastor's salary. I wouldn't want you to stay in my church if you were that small. You'd probably be a trouble maker anyway. Hmmm |
Brother this guy is a really nice person and he just asked a question , and from knowing him , it was asked in a very professional manner. He saw the defensive action of the business manger and elected not to push the issue further. He told me he left because as a member he has a right to ask a question and if the BM would have responded in a business like manner he would have stayed in the church regardless of his answer. He said he trusted the staff but was curious about a few items. His final remarks were that if they treated him like that for asking a question then how would they treat me if I needed prayer And now he would shy away from even asking.
I attended that church at one time and the atmosphere was really something else. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
1/5/16 7:27 pm
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| Re: Some really petty comments I think |
Cojak |
| brotherjames wrote: | | Why do you care what the pastor makes? My salary is set by the Board of Deacons who are elected by the congregation to handle financial matters. We report the bulk salaries to the church each year but we have 10 paid staff so no one knows who gets what. I don't really.care one way or the othet but it seems petty to me to actually say you would leave a church because they don't tell you the Pastor's salary. I wouldn't want you to stay in my church if you were that small. You'd probably be a trouble maker anyway. Hmmm |
BJames, that is pretty mean spirited in itself. The OP was quoting a friend. I personally believe I am responsible to know if I am donating, giving to an open group (church) that they are wise men/women.
Evidently you are very successful in the work, but the statement is curt and pretty mean. Of course that is JMO.
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http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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1/5/16 7:57 pm
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| Cojak |
brotherjames |
| You are right. I apologize. I am not successful, I am a servant of God. I daresay however that few if any pastors I am aware of including myself are overpaid. The principal of a local elementary school with a ma gets 85 to 100000$. Is that too much? When you give to a church you have a reasonable expectation that your funds will be stewardess wisely. But, the determination Arion of a Pastor's salary is determined by many factors including the ability of the church to pay, length of service, educatipn.etc. but no matter what he or she is paid some small minded person will think it's too much. I get tired of dealing with those prople. We are fully accountable to the local church about our finances but frankly you have to trust the church to deal fairly with the staff. I give as unto the Lord to a ministry. What they do with it is up to them. I have to trust them if I don't I shouldn't be a part of that ministry. Especially in the north where there is the mindset of labor vs management, blue collar guys like to exercise control over white collar whenever they can and they lump.pastors as mgmt. I guess I've just seen too.much of it and it bothers me. My salary is not your business |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
1/5/16 8:45 pm
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| Re: Cojak |
c6thplayer1 |
| brotherjames wrote: | | You are right. I apologize. I am not successful, I am a servant of God. I daresay however that few if any pastors I am aware of including myself are overpaid. The principal of a local elementary school with a ma gets 85 to 100000$. Is that too much? When you give to a church you have a reasonable expectation that your funds will be stewardess wisely. But, the determination Arion of a Pastor's salary is determined by many factors including the ability of the church to pay, length of service, educatipn.etc. but no matter what he or she is paid some small minded person will think it's too much. I get tired of dealing with those prople. We are fully accountable to the local church about our finances but frankly you have to trust the church to deal fairly with the staff. I give as unto the Lord to a ministry. What they do with it is up to them. I have to trust them if I don't I shouldn't be a part of that ministry. Especially in the north where there is the mindset of labor vs management, blue collar guys like to exercise control over white collar whenever they can and they lump.pastors as mgmt. I guess I've just seen too.much of it and it bothers me. My salary is not your business |
I take it you just misread the post. This was not my request but a friends.
As far as you salary being none of our business your correct when applied to this board. But if you are a pastor of a church then its every tithe paying member of that church business. And yes you will always have the naysayers bucking against you if your paid 1 dollar or thousands of dollars. You just deal with it because it comes with the territory. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
1/5/16 9:10 pm
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| I didn't misread the post |
brotherjames |
| I stand by my statement. My salary is NOT the business of individual congregants. We elect a board who has that as their pervue. I know I am underpaid and not hiding anything but I would not reveal it as a matter of principle. That information is not necessary for the avg. Congregant. Suffice it to say a pastor should be paid as well as a church is able. But why stir up contention just because someone feels entitled to information because he tithes. And I can deal with it but why open that can of worms in the first place. There will always be people who will think it's too much because they are petty. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
1/5/16 9:26 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | My salary is set by the Board of Deacons who are elected by the congregation to handle financial matters. |
Does the congregation come up with the names of candidates for the deacon board or are they voting on candidates pre-selected by the pastor? |
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Posts: 14803
1/5/16 10:14 pm
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| Re: I didn't misread the post |
c6thplayer1 |
| brotherjames wrote: | | I stand by my statement. My salary is NOT the business of individual congregants. We elect a board who has that as their pervue. I know I am underpaid and not hiding anything but I would not reveal it as a matter of principle. That information is not necessary for the avg. Congregant. Suffice it to say a pastor should be paid as well as a church is able. But why stir up contention just because someone feels entitled to information because he tithes. And I can deal with it but why open that can of worms in the first place. There will always be people who will think it's too much because they are petty. |
Well I guess your set then. But as I said you will always have naysayers no matter where you go when your considered management/pastor. And that you will have to deal with one way or another at some time. Your managerial/pastoral skills will directly effect the outcome.
You are not alone when dealing with these people. As a music minister I deal with them all of the time. ie I dont like that song - contemporary music is the downfall of church - I want more southern gospel - If you play anymore southern gospel I will quit - why dont we do hymns anymore - why do we do so many hymns and the list goes on.
I am called to the music ministry so this I will have to deal with and that I do. No one has ever quit and everyone leaves the service with a smile. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
1/5/16 10:18 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | I know I am underpaid and not hiding anything but I would not reveal it as a matter of principle. |
What principle is that? |
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Posts: 14803
1/5/16 10:23 pm
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bonnie knox |
By the way, our church has the pastor's salary on its financial statement, too (as some of the others here have mentioned).
But you're right, brotherjames, you wouldn't want someone like Cojak or c6th in your church--they're real troublemakers!
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Posts: 14803
1/5/16 10:25 pm
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| Bonnie, bonnie , bonnie |
brotherjames |
My point was that if you would leave a church over the fact you weren't given the pastors salary info then you probably don't belong there in the first place. As to your other snarky comment, .the Deacons are nominated and elected by the rest of the congregation.
The principle I meant was that I don't beleive.just because you give some money to a church you have the right to know every little detail. The finances are reported and in fact we pay 4000 every 2 yrs to have an outside indepentdent audit done. The ONLY things we do not not report is individual salaries. Not necessary but hardly worth leaving a church over if everything else is in order, if it is ministering to you and your family and the community.
I just personally (and I am not alone in this at all) dont think people need to know my salary or any of my staff's salaries. The music minister might think he not paid enough. It causes all sorts of problems. It just isn't necessary. You don't have to agree. But believe me we're not in the Copeland salary realm either. Ha.
Last edited by brotherjames on 1/5/16 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
1/5/16 11:41 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | As to your other snarky comment, |
It wasn't snarky, just a plain question. |
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Posts: 14803
1/5/16 11:42 pm
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| Btw |
brotherjames |
The Bain of most pastors existence are music ministers, but I have a really anointed one.  |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
1/5/16 11:45 pm
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bonnie knox |
A blog I read fairly regularly is TheWartburgWatch. I thought I remembered the blog writer(s) addressing financial transparency. This particular post was with respect to Steve Furtick's church. A couple from our church left moved from our area to go work with Steve's church, so I take a bit of interest in his church from that standpoint (and I know he's been mentioned here on Acts a few times in the past).
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2015/11/13/jesus-doesnt-want-steven-furtick-to-tell-anyone-how-much-he-makes/ |
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Posts: 14803
1/5/16 11:58 pm
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