Actscelerate.com

Ernie Long

Lake of Fire

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1050 **12/14/15 11:32 am**

Revelation 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (KJV)

Will those that are cast into the lake of fire die or will they be tormented day and night for ever and ever as well?

I was under the impression that once sinners were cast in to the lake of fire they would no longer exist.

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **12/14/15 11:36 am**

It is the second death. When you're dead, you're gone. God does not keep your soul alive for the sole purpose of torture.

UncleJD

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3145 **12/14/15 12:20 pm**

Hmm, I'd always thought this was a COG Cleveland centric board. I see its the Armstrong one. oops

famousflavius

Impressions

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2447 **12/14/15 12:58 pm**

"I was under the impression that once sinners were cast in to the lake of fire they would no longer exist."

What gave you that impression?

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **12/14/15 1:05 pm**

famousflavius

Glad I don't have to worry about it.

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2447 **12/14/15 1:13 pm**

I'm just glad that I don't have to worry about it. I know where I will be spending eternity. I think that however long the lost soul has to spend in the lake of fire and separated from God will be long enough. I wouldn't want to spent one second like that. How long do you suggest that they burn?

Aaron Scott

The "Second Death" means something....

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6036 **12/14/15 1:50 pm**

If you are alive and burning...then you're not dead. If that is the "Second Death," it is a sort of false advertising, isn't it?

I mean, if a person is going to live forever and ever and be tortured endlessly, then that is eternal life in its more horrendous form.

Maybe we should take seriously that it is called the Second DEATH.

UncleJD

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3145 **12/14/15 1:51 pm**

UncleJD

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3145 **12/14/15 1:52 pm**

ok, Aaron, make that 3 of them. Wow, sure this isn't WWCOG ?? Laughing

Ernie Long

I told my church

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1050 **12/14/15 1:56 pm**

that people who are cast in the lake of fire will no longer exist and some of them looked at me like I was wrong. I have several who used to be catholic and baptist.

Do those denominations believe different?

UncleJD

Re: I told my church

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3145 **12/14/15 2:02 pm**

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **12/14/15 3:14 pm**

Matt 10:28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This is an interesting scripture for a couple of reasons. Why would one who is in torment forever and ever fear having their soul destroyed? Wouldn't it be welcome at that point? And, it shows that the soul can/will be destroyed in hell. BTW, among those of us who are conditionalists, there are differing beliefs. There are some who believe that when you die the first time, you're annihilated. I believe in a place called hell where people are punished. I just believe when it is tossed into the lake of fire, it is destroyed at that point.

I have studied this extensively and realize that I am basically alone among my friends, but I am 100% sold on it and like you, it is not a game changer on fellowship. Truth is truth and I would imagine we are all wrong in several areas of our beliefs.

Old Time Country Preacher

Re: Lake of Fire

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **12/14/15 3:48 pm**

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **12/14/15 4:17 pm**

The fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah was also an eternal fire. I don't think it is still burning. The challenge in the Bible is figuring out what is literal.

When you look at a reference to day and night that is supposed to be in an age in which time is no more, there is another challenge. It is not literal, IMHO.

Aaron Scott

What does "annihilation" mean?

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6036 **12/14/15 6:40 pm**

If you die of old age and buried, are you annihilated?

If you were blown into atoms by a nuclear blast and killed, are you annihilated?

Very simply, DYING is not annihilation in certain senses. So the Second Death may not be considered annihilation, if the point needs to be debated (though I acknowledge that that is almost certainly what our church's founders meant!).

I, personally, have come to believe, as did some of the earliest Church Fathers, that God is not so unbearably cruel as to torture people FOREVER. Consider that this is not a case of being locked in jail for a thousand years. This is a case of ACTIVE BURNING, of REAL-TIME TORTURE...and it last not a month, not year, not a century, not even a million years...it lasts for a billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion...years.

Do we think that the Muslim version of Allah is evil? Oh, my goodness, he doesn't compare with OUR GOD! Our God will burn you alive for a trillion centuries!

I'm not saying that's not the case. But it sure is hard for me to believe that our God would do the most merciless thing in the universe...when His Son, as He was dying, asked that those around Him be forgiven for they knew not what they did.

I am convinced that almost no one would NOT get saved if they KNEW what they did.

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12804 **12/14/15 8:27 pm**

The Church of God Doctrinal Commitments affirm belief in:

Eternal punishment for the wicked. No liberation nor annihilation. Matthew 25:41-46; Mark 3:29; 2 Thessalonians 1: 8, 9; Revelation 20:10-15; 21:8

http://www.churchofgod.org/beliefs/doctrinal-commitments

Bullseye77

Stirring the pot (Had to use the Greek as a result of a recent discussionon it.lol)

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1441 **12/14/15 8:38 pm**

Robertson's Word Pictures on 2 Thes. 1: 9
Shall suffer punishment (dikên tisousin). Future active of old verb tinô, to pay penalty (dikên, right, justice), here only in N.T., but apotinô once also to repay Phm 1:19. In the papyri dikê is used for a case or process in law. This is the regular phrase in classic writers for paying the penalty. Eternal destruction (olethron aiônion). Accusative case in apposition with dikên (penalty). This phrase does not appear elsewhere in the N.T., but is in IV Macc. 10:15 ton aiônion tou turannou olethron the eternal destruction of the tyrant (Antiochus Epiphanes). Destruction (cf. 1Th 5:3) does not mean here annihilation, but, as Paul proceeds to show, separation from the face of the Lord (apo prosôpou tou kuriou) and from the glory of his might (kai apo tês doxês tês ischuos autou), an eternity of woe such as befell Antiochus Epiphanes. Aiônios in itself only means age-long and papyri and inscriptions give it in the weakened sense of a Caesar's life (Milligan), but Paul means by age-long the coming age in contrast with this age, as eternal as the New Testament knows how to make it. See on "Mt 25:46" for use of aiônios both with zôên, life, and kolasin, punishment.
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