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 Deciding who can, and who cannot immigrate to this country, is not against the Constitution. |
doyle |
While I do not completely agree with Donald Trump on banning immigration for all Muslims, the accusation that his idea is unconstitutional, does not hold water in my opinion.
The U.S. Constitution is for U.S. citizens. It does not apply to or protect non-citizens. So, if the nation decided to temporarily put a hold on a specific group immigrating to the U.S., in my opinion, that decision would be constitutional.
That's my opinion. What's yours?
Doyle
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The largest room in the world is the room for improvement. |
Acts-celerate Owner
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12/8/15 4:24 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
The only part that's blatantly unconstitutional is his suggestion that it also apply to Muslims who are American citizens but left the country to travel abroad. That is blatantly, unquestionably unconstitutional. I mean, really -- a family of natural-born Muslim Americans go to Jamaica for vacation, and Donald Trump won't let them back in? What are they going to do?
For everyone else, the Supreme Court has ruled in the past that nonresident aliens do not enjoy a constitutional right to enter the United States.
Donald Trump's plan is dumb. However, reducing immigration from all sources across the board so our taxed system can have time and space to look at things more diligently is both constitutional and probably a pretty good idea. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
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12/8/15 4:27 pm
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| Come on |
JimmieDavis |
| You didn't read the facts. He was not talking about American citizens who are Muslims. |
Friendly Face
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12/8/15 4:35 pm
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| Re: Come on |
Dave Dorsey |
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| What Trump probably had in mind |
doyle |
When he shared about Muslims abroad not being able to return, he may have been talking about those who left our country to go train and fight with ISIS.
If that was the case he should have been more careful with what he said and how he said it. I think his shoot-from-the-hip statement will not hurt him and may actually increase his support.
He is slowly coming across as more Presidential but he simply must think things through before spouting off. At this time, Trumps greatest enemy is Trump.
Doyle
_________________
The largest room in the world is the room for improvement. |
Acts-celerate Owner
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12/8/15 4:52 pm
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| Re: What Trump probably had in mind |
Dave Dorsey |
| doyle wrote: | | When he shared about Muslims abroad not being able to return, he may have been talking about those who left our country to go train and fight with ISIS. |
Conspiring to help a foreign terrorist organization is a federal crime. Those folks could be arrested at customs under current law. It is unlikely that's what Trump was referring to.
Last edited by Dave Dorsey on 12/8/15 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
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12/8/15 5:36 pm
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| Re: What Trump probably had in mind |
c6thplayer1 |
| doyle wrote: | At this time, Trumps greatest enemy is Trump.
Doyle |
And the GOP.. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
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12/8/15 5:37 pm
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UncleJD |
| I think Trump's brain runs off and leaves his mouth (or visa versa). Based on the rest of the conversation, I'm pretty sure he was referring to Muslims who leave the US and go to the middle-east for a month or two. Context is key with Trump, he doesn't go over details very well (he's choleric). This was all in response to the fact that an American Muslim from a "moderate" family, goes to Mecca or whatever for a month and brings back a monster on an EZ-Pass. If that's what he's getting at, I couldn't agree more. I don't think he was thinking about a Muslim family that goes to the Bahamas for a week. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3145
12/9/15 1:46 pm
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| Well Doyle your instincts are correct |
brotherjames |
The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 specifically allows the govt including the President by decree the right to restrict any persons or groups of any race or creed it so deems as dangerous to this nation from entering the country. Jimmy Carter used the act to restrict all Iranians from entering and the ones here had to report within 30 days or face prison. More than 15000 Iranians were in fact deported by President Carter using this Act as its base of authority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1952 |
Acts-celerater
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12/9/15 2:24 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
I love all the illegal aliens and Muslims telling us what our Constitution says.
Change the Constitution of your country to what you want it to be.
You are part of the problem there - we only need those that are part of the solution here.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
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12/9/15 6:49 pm
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caveator |
When we start banning a religion, we are setting a heavy precedent that I am not comfortable with. I understand banning a nationality, but banning a religion is an entirely different thing.
What happens when someone wants to ban Christians? How could you justify an argument against that, if the precedent is set? |
Acts-celerater
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12/10/15 11:08 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| caveator wrote: | When we start banning a religion, we are setting a heavy precedent that I am not comfortable with. I understand banning a nationality, but banning a religion is an entirely different thing.
What happens when someone wants to ban Christians? How could you justify an argument against that, if the precedent is set? |
Islam is a political ideology as well as a religion. It is an ideology incompatible with being an American.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
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12/10/15 3:46 pm
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caveator |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | caveator wrote: | When we start banning a religion, we are setting a heavy precedent that I am not comfortable with. I understand banning a nationality, but banning a religion is an entirely different thing.
What happens when someone wants to ban Christians? How could you justify an argument against that, if the precedent is set? |
Islam is a political ideology as well as a religion. It is an ideology incompatible with being an American. |
I agree with you, but who gets to make that call? What if a liberal politician, with their agenda, decides that Christianity is also an ideology that goes against their idea of being an American?
Listen guys, I am as conservative as it gets. I do not want Syrian refugees coming into our country right now. I want to strengthen out immigration policies. I believe in Islamic Terrorism. I believe that more muslims are radical than we think. However, this rhetoric by Trump is just ignorance personified! He is hurting our cause by the stupid stuff that he is saying! |
Acts-celerater
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12/10/15 3:53 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| caveator wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | caveator wrote: | When we start banning a religion, we are setting a heavy precedent that I am not comfortable with. I understand banning a nationality, but banning a religion is an entirely different thing.
What happens when someone wants to ban Christians? How could you justify an argument against that, if the precedent is set? |
Islam is a political ideology as well as a religion. It is an ideology incompatible with being an American. |
I agree with you, but who gets to make that call? What if a liberal politician, with their agenda, decides that Christianity is also an ideology that goes against their idea of being an American?
Listen guys, I am as conservative as it gets. I do not want Syrian refugees coming into our country right now. I want to strengthen out immigration policies. I believe in Islamic Terrorism. I believe that more muslims are radical than we think. However, this rhetoric by Trump is just ignorance personified! He is hurting our cause by the stupid stuff that he is saying! |
He is helping our cause actually.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
12/10/15 4:00 pm
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caveator |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | caveator wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | caveator wrote: | When we start banning a religion, we are setting a heavy precedent that I am not comfortable with. I understand banning a nationality, but banning a religion is an entirely different thing.
What happens when someone wants to ban Christians? How could you justify an argument against that, if the precedent is set? |
Islam is a political ideology as well as a religion. It is an ideology incompatible with being an American. |
I agree with you, but who gets to make that call? What if a liberal politician, with their agenda, decides that Christianity is also an ideology that goes against their idea of being an American?
Listen guys, I am as conservative as it gets. I do not want Syrian refugees coming into our country right now. I want to strengthen out immigration policies. I believe in Islamic Terrorism. I believe that more muslims are radical than we think. However, this rhetoric by Trump is just ignorance personified! He is hurting our cause by the stupid stuff that he is saying! |
He is helping our cause actually. |
How? |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 586
12/10/15 4:10 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Stopping immigration is a right every country has - and many Presidents have curtailed it - depending on events of their day.
you guys that think there is some wrong "precedent" are not seeing the picture.
Our Constitution guarantees of freedom are for American citizens.
It DOES NOT COVER citizens of Mexico or Saudi Arabia.
The only bad precedent we will set is once again giving in to the "Blame America" first crowd that says we must let in Muslims and Mexicans and Martians - to show we are not the bad guys that George Washington and Ronald Reagan were. We're Obama guys now - and if we apologize enough - the world will throw down their weapons and the Age of Aquarius will begin. 
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16633
12/10/15 4:44 pm
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UncleJD |
| caveator wrote: | | I believe in Islamic Terrorism. I believe that more muslims are radical than we think. However, this rhetoric by Trump is just ignorance personified! He is hurting our cause by the stupid stuff that he is saying! |
Again I ask for specifics. I've asked a few times. let me ask this way. Please say "agree" or "disagree" with each of the Trump positions below.
1. We have a problem with the our borders and we should build a wall, no border, no country.
2. We have a problem with legal immigrants like the ones in San Bernadino who were vetted according to our best efforts so obviously that is broken. We can't let people from Pakistan come over here simply because they have an internet girlfriend over here (but say anything like that and you're a racist/bigot, sound familiar???)
3. Based on #2, we need to stop allowing Muslims to come in to until we figure out what we are doing (I won't use the exact words, but it was what the ... we're doing).
4. We need to monitor some mosques that are teaching extremism.
5. We need to monitor Muslim Americans who have left this country and gone to countries known to produce radical Muslims.
6. We need to not allow Muslim Americans to go to those countries and come back in without monitoring their actions in those countries (this is what he said based on the entire context, not on the sound-bytes coming from the media).
7. We have a problem when politicians won't call it Islamic Terrorism and want to fight global warming instead.
How about these statements that everyone hates him for?
8. On Baltimore - "Our great African American President hasn’t exactly had a positive impact on the thugs who are so happily and openly destroying Baltimore!"
9. Mexico is sending people to America who are "bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They are rapists" - -- same sentence "some I assume are good people," he said. "But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we're getting. ... It's got to stop. And it's got to stop fast."
How about this example of media fabrication by sound-byte selection.
Last month Trump told NBC News that he “would certainly implement” a database tracking Muslims in the US.
“I would certainly implement that. Absolutely,” Trump said.
“There should be a lot of systems, beyond databases,” he added. “We should have a lot of systems.”
When asked whether Muslims would be legally obligated to sign into the database, Trump responded: “They have to be — they have to be.”
The context of the above was Muslim refugees coming into America (in the US). This was not about American citizens (clarified by Trump himself later but ignored)... Is this one wrong?
I could go on, but which of these are wrong? |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3145
12/10/15 4:45 pm
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bradfreeman |
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UncleJD |
| bradfreeman wrote: | Fear makes poor policy.
Wisdom is a better motivator. |
Would love to see some wisdom from our leaders, have seen none in years. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3145
12/11/15 4:07 pm
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georgiapath |
| UncleJD wrote: | | caveator wrote: | | I believe in Islamic Terrorism. I believe that more muslims are radical than we think. However, this rhetoric by Trump is just ignorance personified! He is hurting our cause by the stupid stuff that he is saying! |
Again I ask for specifics. I've asked a few times. let me ask this way. Please say "agree" or "disagree" with each of the Trump positions below.
1. We have a problem with the our borders and we should build a wall, no border, no country.
2. We have a problem with legal immigrants like the ones in San Bernadino who were vetted according to our best efforts so obviously that is broken. We can't let people from Pakistan come over here simply because they have an internet girlfriend over here (but say anything like that and you're a racist/bigot, sound familiar???)
3. Based on #2, we need to stop allowing Muslims to come in to until we figure out what we are doing (I won't use the exact words, but it was what the ... we're doing).
4. We need to monitor some mosques that are teaching extremism.
5. We need to monitor Muslim Americans who have left this country and gone to countries known to produce radical Muslims.
6. We need to not allow Muslim Americans to go to those countries and come back in without monitoring their actions in those countries (this is what he said based on the entire context, not on the sound-bytes coming from the media).
7. We have a problem when politicians won't call it Islamic Terrorism and want to fight global warming instead.
How about these statements that everyone hates him for?
8. On Baltimore - "Our great African American President hasn’t exactly had a positive impact on the thugs who are so happily and openly destroying Baltimore!"
9. Mexico is sending people to America who are "bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They are rapists" - -- same sentence "some I assume are good people," he said. "But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we're getting. ... It's got to stop. And it's got to stop fast."
How about this example of media fabrication by sound-byte selection.
Last month Trump told NBC News that he “would certainly implement” a database tracking Muslims in the US.
“I would certainly implement that. Absolutely,” Trump said.
“There should be a lot of systems, beyond databases,” he added. “We should have a lot of systems.”
When asked whether Muslims would be legally obligated to sign into the database, Trump responded: “They have to be — they have to be.”
The context of the above was Muslim refugees coming into America (in the US). This was not about American citizens (clarified by Trump himself later but ignored)... Is this one wrong?
could go on, but which of these are wrong? |
None are wrong, he is exactly right. If we have 4 or 8 more years of the mess Obama has created, we will never right our country again. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7594
12/18/15 11:45 am
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