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 Do you believe in 'real presence' in the Lord's Supper/Eucharist? |
mytimewillcome |
Interested to know how many of our communities believe in the real presence of Christ in communion?
I'm not interested in discussing transubstantiation here or any other Catholic traditions, just wondering how many teach it to there congregations this way.
Thanks. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3661
11/27/15 11:39 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Do you mind to be a little more specific? Real presence? Do you mean where the juice/wine literally become Christ's blood and the wafer literally becomes Christ's body? Or that as the people participate in and observe Communion, Christ is present via the Holy Spirit? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
11/28/15 12:48 am
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Poimen |
No, I do not believe in the "real prescence" views regarding the Lord's Supper.
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Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
11/28/15 4:43 am
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bradfreeman |
25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Heb. 9:25,26
We celebrate a "remembrance" of what He did only once, not often.
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Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
11/28/15 6:56 am
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mytimewillcome |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Do you mind to be a little more specific? Real presence? Do you mean where the juice/wine literally become Christ's blood and the wafer literally becomes Christ's body? Or that as the people participate in and observe Communion, Christ is present via the Holy Spirit? |
No, OTCP, I do not mean where the wine and bread literally transform into the body and blood of Christ. That would be the Catholic tradition of transubstantiation.
I am referring to telling/teaching your congregation that the presence of God resides in the elements. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3661
11/29/15 2:50 pm
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mytimewillcome |
| Poimen wrote: | | No, I do not believe in the "real prescence" views regarding the Lord's Supper. |
Do you believe in the "real presence" of God in the altar service? |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3661
11/29/15 2:51 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| mytimewillcome wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Do you mind to be a little more specific? Real presence? Do you mean where the juice/wine literally become Christ's blood and the wafer literally becomes Christ's body? Or that as the people participate in and observe Communion, Christ is present via the Holy Spirit? |
No, OTCP, I do not mean where the wine and bread literally transform into the body and blood of Christ. That would be the Catholic tradition of transubstantiation.
I am referring to telling/teaching your congregation that the presence of God resides in the elements. |
I aint joshin with ya here, mytime, I'm wantin to know we on the same page for I answer.
1. Are you sayin the "real presence of Jesus in the elements" in the sense that he said where 2 or 3 are present I am in the midst? As in, we know the Lord is here cause he promised to be?
2. Or, are ya sayin they is some mystical metaphysical presence of Christ in the wafers/juice? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
11/29/15 5:11 pm
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| its more than a symbol |
muricewatsonsfriend |
obviously, we do not hold to the idea of trans/con. that being said, i think pentecostals in general have viewed the meal in a "merely symbolic" fashion. we've used that term for years, and we do so out of fear that people may think we believe in trans/con.
its very obvious in scripture that Jesus was transferring the meaning of the passover meal to himself. the words are clear: "this is my body" "this is my blood." Jesus was so clear that the first audience asked "does this man actually think we're going to eat him?" Jesus offered no "symbolic" explanation.
misusing the supper can eat damnation to my soul. that's more than a symbol.
however, the official COG teaching is more ambiguous.
that's my two cents...
Darius |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 733
12/1/15 7:09 am
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| Re: its more than a symbol |
bonnie knox |
I'd love for you to expand on this.
We had "communion" Sunday. The latest thing we've done at our church is to purchase a prepackaged little cup of juice that has a wafer sealed inside the cellophane top which, in turn, seals the juice. The wafer looked like Styrofoam, and I wondered if it was truly edible. I did ingest it. The juice smelled weird, so I didn't drink it. My son said the wafer was not like Styrofoam because he could actually use it as a guitar pick. At that point, our conversation was beginning to sound like an irreverent criticism, so I felt I should remind us that regardless of the quality, it represented something else. The very phrase I used was "it's a symbol."
| muricewatsonsfriend wrote: | obviously, we do not hold to the idea of trans/con. that being said, i think pentecostals in general have viewed the meal in a "merely symbolic" fashion. we've used that term for years, and we do so out of fear that people may think we believe in trans/con.
its very obvious in scripture that Jesus was transferring the meaning of the passover meal to himself. the words are clear: "this is my body" "this is my blood." Jesus was so clear that the first audience asked "does this man actually think we're going to eat him?" Jesus offered no "symbolic" explanation.
misusing the supper can eat damnation to my soul. that's more than a symbol.
however, the official COG teaching is more ambiguous.
that's my two cents...
Darius |
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[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
12/1/15 9:40 am
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| Re: its more than a symbol |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | The latest thing we've done at our church is to purchase a prepackaged little cup of juice that has a wafer sealed inside the cellophane top which, in turn, seals the juice. |
Packaged Presence? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
12/1/15 9:55 am
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| Re: its more than a symbol |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| muricewatsonsfriend wrote: | | the words are clear: "this is my body" "this is my blood." Jesus was so clear that the first audience asked "does this man actually think we're going to eat him?" Jesus offered no "symbolic" explanation. |
He didn't have to offer a symbolic explanation, it is self evident in the text. When he said "this is my body" he was still alive. When he said "This is my blood" he was still living. They knew he wasn't speaking literally as he handed them the bread/wine, he was sitting there alive in their presence.
The Romans accused some in the early church of cannibalism, because they heard that Christians ate his body and drank his blood. Obviously, the early Christians did neither. They ate a piece of bread (not his literal body) and drank juice/wine (not his literal blood). If that isn't symbolic, what is it? Just as baptism symbolizes dying to self (going under the water) and new life in Christ (coming up out of the water), and just as footwashing symbolizes humility, submission, servitude/servanthood, etc. (the act of kneeling and washing feet), so water baptism symbolizes what Jesus did accomplished |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
12/1/15 10:08 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | Packaged Presence?
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I hope not, but I did have to sort of "get past" it.
I do remember a couple of communions that were considerably less packaged. One was at a mental hospital that our church held monthly services at. When we served the doughnuts and Kool Aid afterward, one of the patients suggested, "Let's all hold hands and have communion." As kooky as it sounded, she might have been on the right track.
The other communion was a woman who had a heart for homeless people. She had some very unusual ways about her, I thought, but I trusted her heart. We would borrow the facilities of a downtown church to have a Sunday afternoon meal for the homeless men, and once this lady offered a communion with a loaf of bread that each person would come to the front and tear off a piece, then dip into a cup of juice. As far as sanitation that was about as far as you could get from a prepackaged cup and wafer. (I was like the Pharisee being concerned about the unwashed hands, lol!) |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
12/1/15 10:09 am
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UncleJD |
| I think we have made it no more significant than a hymn or shaking hands during the middle of the song service. I was disturbed last Sunday when the communion elements were distributed at the door, then mentioned by the song leader (presumably un-ordained), who didn't even quote the "this do in rememberence of me". He just said how awesome it was (and it is), then started singing a song, and half way through the song said "you may partake whenever you're ready". I stopped my family and quoted the verses to them before I allowed them to partake. I strongly sensed that it was not pleasing to the Lord. (and no, I don't believe in transmutation/substantiation, etc.. but I lean toward "real presence", at least in as much as we believe His presence is there when we are gathered in His name, something pretty sacred and Holy) |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3139
12/1/15 10:32 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
I'm perfectly happy with viewing communion as symbolic (and holy). God's presence fills all things.
Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 12/1/15 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
12/1/15 10:32 am
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| I don't understand the op |
brotherjames |
| Aren't we all carriers of His Presence? Isn't the Spirit of Christ inhabiting us? In addition, doesn't the Word say that where two or three are gathered in His Name, He is there? When we do take communion (and this will engender a response from the woffie hunter) I present to the people Isa 53 esp vs 4-5 which are illuminated for us in Matt. 8:17 that the atonement of Jesus paid the price for not only our salvation but also our physical healing. That being so, as we are partaking of the symbols of His body and blood, use this time to renew your salvation and also receive the physical healing of their body. A "point of contact" to release their Faith. Jesus died to make us "WHOLE" SOZO (spirit, soul & body). |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
12/2/15 9:40 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | use this time to renew your salvation |
What does that mean? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
12/2/15 10:54 am
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| I didn't word that well. |
brotherjames |
| I meant reflect on the great price paid for your salvation and renew your commitment to the Lord, repenting as necessary and thanking His mercy and Grace. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
12/2/15 3:38 pm
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