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 Norvel Hayes Daughter Passes: I Simply Don't Understand (L) |
Old Time Country Preacher |
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| One of my best friends worked very closely with her.... |
caseyleejones |
| ....I will pass that along to him.... |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11795
11/26/15 10:43 pm
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| Re: One of my best friends worked very closely with her.... |
bradfreeman |
| caseyleejones wrote: | | ....I will pass that along to him.... |
I'm sorry about the loss of your friend.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
11/27/15 5:26 am
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| It is appointed unto men once to die... |
tryingtofitin |
Death is a difficult thing to come to terms with. Of course we know Hebrews 9: 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die… but that still doesn’t satisfy us when death comes.
I resign to the fact that it was her time. No amount of faith prevented it from happening, and yet we have seen in scripture where God extended a king’s days.
When David Wilkerson exited this life I had a hard time understanding the way he left. A car wreck! I argued with the Lord over that one. Here was a faithful servant of the Lord who had cheated death more than once by the protective hand of his God, and you mean to tell me God was not there this time?
It wasn’t until his memorial service at Times Square Church that I gained understanding. They played a clip of him preaching just a short time before his death and he remarked, “So what if I’m walking down a street in New York city and a car runs up on the side walk and kills me? So what! One minute I’m walking on concrete the next streets of gold!”
He was saying that when it’s his time it doesn’t matter how he leaves this world.
Now OTCP, I know what you are implying by your question and post. If Norvel was such a man of faith, why did his daughter die? And I also understand it is your way of jabbing at word of faith preaches. The simple truth is… when its your time, its your time. How God chooses to let you exit this life, I.E: cancer, heart attack, car wreck, etc., is His own choosing. Surly Jesus could have called ten thousand angels to come and rescue him, but He knew it was His time.
Charles Capps, another woffer, told his family two days before he died that he would be leaving on the very day he did.
The death of Norvel’s daughter does in no way diminish his faith in God nor does it say he did not have enough faith, nor that his teaching on faith is false. Her death simply reminds us that when it’s our time… faith, calling things that are not as though they were, declaring scripture, and all the other things “woffers” are known for cannot stop the inevitable. I for one don’t want it stopped. When its my time, let me go! This world is not my home, I’m just passing through.
Once again, OTCP, the good Lord has a corner waiting for you in glory that you will have to stand in with your nose to it until you learn to stop judging and being so hateful. I will probably be in the one next to you. And with that thought, I’m going to begin to repent right now…. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 174
11/27/15 7:04 am
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Cojak |
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JLarry |
I believe the Bible says; and I paraphrase; Death is a precious thing in the sight of the Lord.
We see it as a bad thing.
This morning I told a friend of her death. She and Norval have preached in his church. He said; "I just don't understand this".
I will remind him that it is a precious thing.
_________________
Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com
No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
11/27/15 2:47 pm
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| Re: It is appointed unto men once to die... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| tryingtofitin wrote: |
1. OTCP, I know what you are implying by your question and post. If Norvel was such a man of faith, why did his daughter die? And I also understand it is your way of jabbing at word of faith preaches.
2. The death of Norvel’s daughter does in no way diminish his faith in God nor does it say he did not have enough faith, nor that his teaching on faith is false.
3. Once again, OTCP, the good Lord has a corner waiting for you in glory that you will have to stand in with your nose to it until you learn to stop judging and being so hateful. I will probably be in the one next to you. And with that thought, I’m going to begin to repent right now…. |
1. Incorrect my fellow poster. The reason I titled the post "Norvel Hayes Daughter" is because the article I provided the link to was titled the same. Hayes was a WOF pioneer, however, the article is about his daughter, who carried on his word after he died. She too set forth WOF teaching. In no way is this thread a "jab" at WOF preachers. It is an honest assessment of WOF teaching. And as the title states, "I don't understand." Now I understand woffie teaching regarding physical healing, the "guaranteed right" the believer is purportedly given at conversion to reign supreme over sickness/disease. I understand how the luminaries of woffie-ism tell their followers to resist all sickness just as one would resist the temptation to sin, and in doing so all sickness will flee. What I don't understand is "WHY IT DOESN'T WORK FOR THE LUMINARIES." And what I really don't understand is "WHY, WHEN A LUMINARY IS DIAGNOSED WITH SOME SICKNESS/DISEASE, AND DIES, WHY NO ONE FROM THAT CAMP WILL RISE WITH HONESTY/INTEGRITY AND SAY 'WE WERE WRONG, AND WERE GOING TO AMEND OUR DOCTRINE.'"
2. The death of Norvel's daughter--after a long bout with cancer--most definitely brings into question the "faith" woffies proclaim. Yes, everybody is going to die. But this long bout with cancer, when at the same time these folk is preachin at a feller is guaranteed healin in the atonement, is a absolute travesty.
3. You totally misunderstand OTCP's motives. Indeed, at times I use humor/sarcasm/caricature to illustrate a point, but I am not standing in judgment of these people. I'm doing exactly what the good Book tells me to do, I'm discerning the spirit of the teaching/doctrine (whether WOF, Hyper-Grace, Serpent Seed Silliness, an the like) to see if it from God. If it isn't, we are commanded to expose it as error. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
11/27/15 2:50 pm
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| in this thread you will notice 2 or 3 classy threads.... |
caseyleejones |
and one tasteless....
OTCP, your parody has once again crossed the line into tasteless.... |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11795
11/27/15 6:07 pm
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| Amen |
tryingtofitin |
| caseyleejones wrote: | and one tasteless....
OTCP, your parody has once again crossed the line into tasteless.... |
Amen and amen!
OTCP... for you to say, "The death of Norvel's daughter--after a long bout with cancer--most definitely brings into question the "faith" woffies proclaim."... disgusting.
In a moment when compassion and sympathy is the order of the day you have nothing but scathing, mocking judgment to offer.
I just pray you are ready for the measure that will be used for you. Because you have used a very large measure for others. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 174
11/27/15 7:16 pm
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| OTCP is not only a parody-He's a stricken coward |
JimmieDavis |
| This could be the lowest he's ever stooped. Never rebuke the parody but the low life that the parody represents is in need of a heart cleanse. You're sick. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 219
11/27/15 7:24 pm
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| OTCP...` |
Aaron Scott |
My bro, I know that you have sincere issues with the whole WOF movement. I get that. And, indeed, some of the statements they have made have invited well-deserved criticism.
But the thing that needs to be understood is that just because they preach a particular thing does not mean that they always live up to it. You and I may preach a strong sanctification message, yet, at times, not live up to it. The point is that our failure does not invalidate the message! The message is still true, even if we fail to live up to it.
If a WOF preacher prays for someone and that person is not healed, it doesn't mean that the message was wrong, but that there is some shortcoming elsewhere.
We need to take care that we don't tarnish a message of truth because the messenger is flawed. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
11/27/15 8:15 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Thanks fellers fer the encouragement. Love yall too.
This thread IS NOT about Norvel Hayes daughter per se, she just happened to be the one who experienced sickness/disease and passed this time. I pray for grace/peace/comfort to all who knew her, family/friends. This thread is no slight on her, the ole timer didn't even know Norvel Hayes had a daughter till another Acts poster (who shall remain anonymous) sent me the link. Nor is this thread questioning her love for, devotion to, or relationship with Christ. It is referencing one thing and one thing only--woffie teaching on physical healing.
It could just as well be Copeland, Hagin, Tilton, or anyone of a thousand WOF preachers, who proclaim as an undeniable right, that the Christian is guaranteed healing of all sickness/disease. When such individuals proclaim this position as Gospel truth, and it doesn't work in their own lives, and they refuse to adjust/amend their teaching, and they continue to lead others into error, YES, they stand accountable to the test of truth. Would I interrupt the memorial service and publically denounce such persons? 99% a Acts posters knows the ole timer would not do such a thing. The other 1% suffer from a condition known in the Greek as moros. I posted this on a Internet forum frequented primarily by COG folk, and they aint no COG folk I know what follered Hayes or had anything to do with New Life Bible College.
Hey, I done stood alone per this subject a heap a times, shall continue to do so. You boys rail agin the ole timer all ya want, call him incompassionate, judgmental, tasteless, an on down the line. It don't change a thing.
Hey, but JimmieDavis is right about one thing, the ole timer is sick, sick a false teaching, extended error, horrendous hermeneutics, gullible gilligans in the church, an the whole bit. They is a famine in the land, not a famine of food, but of the Word of God. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
11/27/15 8:33 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| The problem is that the WoF message itself claims that believers have a right to claim their healing, even to 'walk in divine health.' So it's not a question of failing to live up to the message, for who couldn't simply claim their healing/health that has supposedly already been paid for in full by Christ? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
11/27/15 8:36 pm
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| Make that two tasteless posts..... |
caseyleejones |
| .....someone has passed away under horrible circumstances. I guess that is not enough for some.... |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11795
11/27/15 9:19 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
OTCP - there was no need to use this tragic death to take the shot at WOF preaching.
To use this was tasteless, classless, and very bad form.
For shame.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
11/27/15 9:38 pm
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philunderwood |
There is no need to post another manifestation of repudiation, but I agree this was so poorly used to make a point that it makes you wonder about the soul of the human that crafted it.
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Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3954
11/27/15 9:44 pm
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| Quite Wyatt, you wrote: |
Aaron Scott |
| Quote: | | The problem is that the WoF message itself claims that believers have a right to claim their healing, even to 'walk in divine health.' So it's not a question of failing to live up to the message, for who couldn't simply claim their healing/health that has supposedly already been paid for in full by Christ? |
Quite Wyatt, lots of people don't claim the salvation that has "supposedly already been paid for by Christ." Yet we would never claim that their failure to be saved was due to the salvation message being invalid. We'd just say they failed to accept it and so forth.
Same with the faith message. It is not invalidated because someone failed to live up to its wonderful message that we have as much right to claim our healing as we do our salvation. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
11/27/15 11:34 pm
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| Re: Quite Wyatt, you wrote: |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | lots of people don't claim the salvation that has "supposedly already been paid for by Christ." Yet we would never claim that their failure to be saved was due to the salvation message being invalid. We'd just say they failed to accept it and so forth.
Same with the faith message. It is not invalidated because someone failed to live up to its wonderful message that we have as much right to claim our healing as we do our salvation. |
The problem with this line of reasoning is that the message of salvation is biblical, so, if one fails to access it via faith in Christ, there is nothing to repudiate.
The faith message--as interpreted/propagated by hyper WOF preachers--IS NOT BIBLICAL. There is no guaranteed right to claim one's healing and that 100% of the time one will be healed. This is where the message becomes invalid. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
11/28/15 12:56 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Tasteless, Classless and Bad Form? This is subjective statement, and along with the other comments in this thread that rail agin the ole timer, fails to fully understand the motive.
When Kenneth Hagin Sr passed, I asked the very same question within 24 hours of his passing.
When Charles Capps passed, I posed the same question.
When Oral Roberts passed, I visited the issue yet again.
In all cases, as well as with this thread, OTCP was criticized, demeaned, and an overt attempt was made by several to publically shame, shoosh, humiliate and silence OTCP. No attempt was made to confront or expose this error for what it is. As a result, we find ourselves at the same place again:
1. An ad hominem attack on OTCP by some for addressing the issue
2. A refusal by some to address the issue
3. A continued and concerted effort by some to defend the hyper-woffie position on healing
It won't go away until it goes away. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
11/28/15 1:19 am
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| Yada |
tryingtofitin |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | Tasteless, Classless and Bad Form? This is subjective statement, and along with the other comments in this thread that rail agin the ole timer, fails to fully understand the motive.
When Kenneth Hagin Sr passed, I asked the very same question within 24 hours of his passing.
When Charles Capps passed, I posed the same question.
When Oral Roberts passed, I visited the issue yet again.
In all cases, as well as with this thread, OTCP was criticized, demeaned, and an overt attempt was made by several to publically shame, shoosh, humiliate and silence OTCP. No attempt was made to confront or expose this error for what it is. As a result, we find ourselves at the same place again:
1. An ad hominem attack on OTCP by some for addressing the issue
2. A refusal by some to address the issue
3. A continued and concerted effort by some to defend the hyper-woffie position on healing
It won't go away until it goes away. |
Yada, yada, yada... Same ole, same ole.... |
Friendly Face
Posts: 174
11/28/15 6:07 am
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