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Serious Theological Problem(s) at PTS???
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Post Serious Theological Problem(s) at PTS??? Old Time Country Preacher
Didn't wanna hijak the "Pentecostal Seminary" thread, so I started a new thread on this specific topic.

In the "Pentecostal Seminary" thread, Charlie Earl wrote, Via private messages, many love PTS, but recognize there is a serious theological problem that is present by certain faculty members and is going to come to a head. If not internally, then externally.

I would like to ask:

1. What is this serious theological problem(s)?

2. What is being taught that is questionable?

3. What is the agenda of the persons in question?		 Acts-pert Poster
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10/24/15 10:21 am
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Post Re: Serious Theological Problem(s) at PTS??? caveator
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Didn't wanna hijak the "Pentecostal Seminary" thread, so I started a new thread on this specific topic.

In the "Pentecostal Seminary" thread, Charlie Earl wrote, Via private messages, many love PTS, but recognize there is a serious theological problem that is present by certain faculty members and is going to come to a head. If not internally, then externally.

I would like to ask:

1. What is this serious theological problem(s)?

2. What is being taught that is questionable?

3. What is the agenda of the persons in question?


Last edited by caveator on 10/26/15 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total		 Acts-celerater
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10/24/15 11:31 am
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Post Re: Serious Theological Problem(s) at PTS??? Mat
caveator wrote:
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Didn't wanna hijak the "Pentecostal Seminary" thread, so I started a new thread on this specific topic.

In the "Pentecostal Seminary" thread, Charlie Earl wrote, Via private messages, many love PTS, but recognize there is a serious theological problem that is present by certain faculty members and is going to come to a head. If not internally, then externally.

I would like to ask:

1. What is this serious theological problem(s)?

2. What is being taught that is questionable?

3. What is the agenda of the persons in question?


One of things that I hear repeatedly is that there is an attempt to feminize God.


You mean like a "hen gathering her chicks" or a "nursing mother"? There is a difference in speaking of an all encompassing God who is characterized to include both the love of a father and a mother, as appose to saying that God is a woman and using a female pronoun.

In a post about the COGOP and PTS agreement, the president of the PTS, Dr. Vest, said: "the seminary offers the chance for COGOP members to learn from instructors in the Wesleyan Pentecostal tradition." I don't remember being taught about a "mommy" God in my studies as a Wesleyan Pentecostal.

You can't have it both ways, if your institution is going to be relevant, you have to study many traditions and have a facility that are from diverse backgrounds and schools. If you want the PTS to simply reinforce the "company line" and only have good "Church of God" instructors who went to Lee U. and PTS before joining the facility, you will surly get conformity. I don't know that conformity and relevance live in the same institution.

Mat

P.S. It there is concern about corruptible influence, maybe you need to start with those that when to Harvard U. That's where Obama went to school. I think Clinton too I think.		 Acts Enthusiast
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10/24/15 12:30 pm
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Post Re: Serious Theological Problem(s) at PTS??? Kyle Morrow
Mat wrote:


P.S. It there is concern about corruptible influence, maybe you need to start with those that when to Harvard U. That's where Obama went to school. I think Clinton too I think.


Paul Conn teaches there often. I, for one, am proud to have him represent Lee and the Church of God.
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10/24/15 12:40 pm
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Post Re: Serious Theological Problem(s) at PTS??? Mat
Kyle Morrow wrote:
Mat wrote:


P.S. It there is concern about corruptible influence, maybe you need to start with those that when to Harvard U. That's where Obama went to school. I think Clinton too I think.


Paul Conn teaches there often. I, for one, am proud to have him represent Lee and the Church of God.


Kyle,

Just so you know, I was making the point that having leadership/facility from a range of institutions is a good thing.

Mat		 Acts Enthusiast
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10/24/15 1:00 pm
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Post Re: Serious Theological Problem(s) at PTS??? Old Time Country Preacher
caveator wrote:
One of things that I hear repeatedly is that there is an attempt to feminize God.


Never heard such a thing in all ma life.		 Acts-pert Poster
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10/24/15 4:20 pm
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Post Re: Serious Theological Problem(s) at PTS??? Cojak
Mat wrote:
Kyle Morrow wrote:
Mat wrote:


P.S. It there is concern about corruptible influence, maybe you need to start with those that when to Harvard U. That's where Obama went to school. I think Clinton too I think.


Paul Conn teaches there often. I, for one, am proud to have him represent Lee and the Church of God.


Kyle,

Just so you know, I was making the point that having leadership/facility from a range of institutions is a good thing.

Mat


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10/24/15 5:12 pm
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Post Re: Serious Theological Problem(s) at PTS??? Cojak
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
caveator wrote:
One of things that I hear repeatedly is that there is an attempt to feminize God.


Never heard such a thing in all ma life.


So is God a Male? Is there a necessity in heaven for Male and Female? Do spirits have gender?

Now I am asking these questions because I have no idea if there are solid theories. I have always pictured God as a Male Figure, maybe because of the paintings of old depict a snow bearded old man. Like Father Time.

But to be honest, I do not know. Does anyone? Confused WE all know the term mankind covers both male and female, doesn't it?
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10/24/15 5:17 pm
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Post caveator
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Last edited by caveator on 10/26/15 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total		 Acts-celerater
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10/24/15 6:26 pm
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Post PTS kyle_hinson
I earned my M.Div from PTS in 2004. I loved it.

Here is the reality - the school - like any good school, attempts to push people out of their intellectual comfort zones so that they are critically thinking. Some people are uncomfortable with that. But that does not mean that the school is errant.

Regarding feminizing God: in my experience the school requires gender neutral language in papers, explores liberation theology (including feminist liberation theology), and seeks to deconstruct idolatrous images that view God as a white male. I personally do not consider that feminizing God, but some might see it that way.

Again, my experience is a decade old, but I loved it and am a better pastor for it. I think all pastors could use exposure to serious critical thinking.		 Member
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10/24/15 7:55 pm
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Post Re: PTS Mat
kyle_hinson wrote:
I earned my M.Div from PTS in 2004. I loved it.

Here is the reality - the school - like any good school, attempts to push people out of their intellectual comfort zones so that they are critically thinking. Some people are uncomfortable with that. But that does not mean that the school is errant.

Regarding feminizing God: in my experience the school requires gender neutral language in papers, explores liberation theology (including feminist liberation theology), and seeks to deconstruct idolatrous images that view God as a white male. I personally do not consider that feminizing God, but some might see it that way.

Again, my experience is a decade old, but I loved it and am a better pastor for it. I think all pastors could use exposure to serious critical thinking.



What? First someone is saying God is a female and now they are teaching God is not white. Come on man, we got to close the place down.

Mat Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy		 Acts Enthusiast
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10/24/15 8:45 pm
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Post mytimewillcome
I'll step away from my normal meme and/or tongue in cheek responses to be serious for just a moment. It's tough, but i'll try.

Yes, I experienced some of what people are saying on here during my time at PTS.

However, the "womanizing" part at the school (if thats what you want to call it) is extremely low, in my opinion, compared to any other seminary out there.

The same thing could be said about the sermons of many of our pastors in the CoG.

If you think PTS is bad, try any other school and be prepared to come crawling back to PTS.		 Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
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10/24/15 11:01 pm
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Post UncleJD
mytimewillcome wrote:
...
However, the "womanizing" part at the school (if thats what you want to call it) is extremely low, in my opinion, compared to any other seminary out there. ....


So, its the least bad of all the bad, that's the best we can say about it? No wonder the "church" is in the predicament it is. And "feminist liberation theology"? Really? ICHABOD		 Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
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10/25/15 9:31 am
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Post kyle_hinson
So, with all do respect, I think one of the reasons Acts-Celebrate might be dying the slow death the the other thread mentions is in part due to statements like UncleJD's.

Too many times I have seen people respond to nuanced situations with simplistic answers. That is a game that people want to increasingly avoid.

To not understand the goals of a seminary, to not understand the currant theological discussions that a seminary graduate should be able to engage in, and to denounce PTS as having the glory departed is not only an affront to PTS, but it is an affront to dialogue and discourse.

The truth is that PTS is VERY clear about ingraining Wesleyan/Pentecostal theology into it's students, but to do so in a way that makes us able to dialogue with the larger body of Christ. Catholic, liberal, evangelical, etc. To dialogue you have to know, and maybe even respect, other sides that you might disagree with.		 Member
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10/25/15 1:10 pm
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Post UncleJD
Teaching about feminist liberation theology, is just a little different than actually teaching feminist liberation theology. If the former is what is being done, then that's great. Is that the case? If its the later, then what you really see is the why the denominations are dying a slow death. Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
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10/25/15 6:51 pm
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Post Re: Serious Theological Problem(s) at PTS??? Old Time Country Preacher
Tom Sterbens wrote:
Trolling thread by the master......


They aint a trollin bone in the old timers body, Tom. The old timer is dead serious, if they is serious theological problems--which I don't believe for a minute is true--tell us what they are.		 Acts-pert Poster
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10/25/15 8:34 pm
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Post Cojak
Tom Sterbens wrote:
UncleJD wrote:
Teaching about feminist liberation theology, is just a little different than actually teaching feminist liberation theology. If the former is what is being done, then that's great. Is that the case? If its the later, then what you really see is the why the denominations are dying a slow death.

So...can somebody tell "what" feminist liberation theology is??

Thanks


Me too????? Confused
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10/25/15 8:48 pm
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Post Old Time Country Preacher
http://www.amazon.com/Church-Round-Feminist-Interpretation/dp/066425070X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1445824790&sr=1-1&keywords=letty+russell


Read and learn, especially the section on the sacraments. Weird, Wacky and Wild.		 Acts-pert Poster
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10/25/15 9:04 pm
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Post mytimewillcome
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10/25/15 9:11 pm
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Post Cojak
mytimewillcome wrote:

It is certainly not what I expected! Sad Expressing my opinion, but then I don't know what I expected. Thanks I have wondered! Embarassed
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10/26/15 9:53 am
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