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bradfreeman |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Brad,
You didn't answer it at all.
Much like a politician - you said a lot of something - put out a lot of data - but appear incapable of parsing the data yourself and answering a simple question with a simple answer.
Here it is again:
| Quote: | | A man is a murderer who commits incest and bestiality. He professes to have been saved, but still kills people and sleeps with his sister and his dog. Are you saying that he can expect to prosper because he is a child of God who is living by grace and enjoying new covenant blessings? |
You can go back and read your lengthy discourse - and based on your massive intelligence - you can summarize your answer with yes or no. |
When folks genuinely care about you, they want to understand you, not just gather Ammo to shoot at you. My answer may not suit you because you don't care to understand, you just want a rock to throw. 
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
10/15/15 6:16 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
1 John 3:15 says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 Cor. 6:9-11 says that the sexually immoral shall not inherit the kingdom of God. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12802
10/15/15 6:48 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Brad,
You didn't answer it at all.
Much like a politician - you said a lot of something - put out a lot of data - but appear incapable of parsing the data yourself and answering a simple question with a simple answer.
Here it is again:
| Quote: | | A man is a murderer who commits incest and bestiality. He professes to have been saved, but still kills people and sleeps with his sister and his dog. Are you saying that he can expect to prosper because he is a child of God who is living by grace and enjoying new covenant blessings? |
You can go back and read your lengthy discourse - and based on your massive intelligence - you can summarize your answer with yes or no. |
When folks genuinely care about you, they want to understand you, not just gather Ammo to shoot at you. My answer may not suit you because you don't care to understand, you just want a rock to throw. |
Accusing someone of throwing rocks is another diversionary tactic - just a yes or no answer please.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16627
10/15/15 6:51 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Still waiting...
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16627
10/16/15 6:14 am
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Nick Park |
| bradfreeman wrote: |
When folks genuinely care about you, they want to understand you, not just gather Ammo to shoot at you. My answer may not suit you because you don't care to understand, you just want a rock to throw. |
Brad, I'm genuinely puzzled here. You post many threads on this forum to promote your beliefs, and all I've done is ask you one simple question to try to clarify what those beliefs are.
You've not answered that question clearly at all, as far as I can see, and now you're accusing people of looking to throw rocks at you.
Let's try again. It's not a hard question. Are you saying that a man can, while he is practising murder, incest and bestiality, still be in a covenant relationship with God?
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland
http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/ |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
10/16/15 8:49 am
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bradfreeman |
| Nick Park wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: |
When folks genuinely care about you, they want to understand you, not just gather Ammo to shoot at you. My answer may not suit you because you don't care to understand, you just want a rock to throw. |
Brad, I'm genuinely puzzled here. You post many threads on this forum to promote your beliefs, and all I've done is ask you one simple question to try to clarify what those beliefs are.
You've not answered that question clearly at all, as far as I can see, and now you're accusing people of looking to throw rocks at you.
Let's try again. It's not a hard question. Are you saying that a man can, while he is practising murder, incest and bestiality, still be in a covenant relationship with God? |
Yes.
I believe God justifies the ungodly who believe on Him.
Rom. 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
This means God justifies practicing sinners who believe. He doesn't just justify those who can or do stop sinning. We don't receive the power to stop sinning until we come into "covenant relationship with God".
I believe His covenant relationship with God is where he will find the power to change - to love his neighbor, his sister and his dog.
Do you believe "on Him who justifies the ungodly"...or Him who only justifies the godly?
Our justification starts by faith, as a free gift apart from works, and ends as a free gift apart from works...from faith to faith.
Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
Our salvation is not conditioned on our ability or resolve to stop sinning, it is conditioned on our faith in the one who justifies sinners.
I think a better question would be:
Does the murderous, incestuous man practicing bestiality have saving faith?
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
10/16/15 10:13 am
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Nick Park |
| bradfreeman wrote: |
Yes.
I believe God justifies the ungodly who believe on Him.
Rom. 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
This means God justifies practicing sinners who believe. He doesn't just justify those who can or do stop sinning. We don't receive the power to stop sinning until we come into "covenant relationship with God".
I believe His covenant relationship with God is where he will find the power to change - to love his neighbor, his sister and his dog.
Do you believe "on Him who justifies the ungodly"...or Him who only justifies the godly?
Our justification starts by faith, as a free gift apart from works, and ends as a free gift apart from works...from faith to faith.
Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
Our salvation is not conditioned on our ability or resolve to stop sinning, it is conditioned on our faith in the one who justifies sinners.
I think a better question would be:
Does the murderous, incestuous man practicing bestiality have saving faith? |
Now, now. No-one is suggesting that God only justifies the godly. I'm simply trying to clarify what belief it is you are promoting, not for either of us to misrepresent each other.
It's what happens after the point of justification where we appear to differ.
Orthodox Christian belief takes one of two views:
a) Calvinists, believing as they do in eternal security, would generally hold that if a man professes to be a believer but continues to practise murder, incest and bestiality, then that would indicate that he was never genuinely converted.
b) Arminians would hold that even if his conversion was genuine, his continuance in such practices would necessarily mean that he had repudiated his covenant relationship.
However, Brad, you appear to be positing a very different view. You appear to be arguing that a man can, after conversion, continue to practise murder, incest and bestiality and still remain in a covenant relationship with Christ. Am I understanding you correctly? Or am I misinterpreting you in some way.
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland
http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/ |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
10/16/15 10:57 am
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bradfreeman |
| Nick Park wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: |
Yes.
I believe God justifies the ungodly who believe on Him.
Rom. 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
This means God justifies practicing sinners who believe. He doesn't just justify those who can or do stop sinning. We don't receive the power to stop sinning until we come into "covenant relationship with God".
I believe His covenant relationship with God is where he will find the power to change - to love his neighbor, his sister and his dog.
Do you believe "on Him who justifies the ungodly"...or Him who only justifies the godly?
Our justification starts by faith, as a free gift apart from works, and ends as a free gift apart from works...from faith to faith.
Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
Our salvation is not conditioned on our ability or resolve to stop sinning, it is conditioned on our faith in the one who justifies sinners.
I think a better question would be:
Does the murderous, incestuous man practicing bestiality have saving faith? |
Now, now. No-one is suggesting that God only justifies the godly. I'm simply trying to clarify what belief it is you are promoting, not for either of us to misrepresent each other.
It's what happens after the point of justification where we appear to differ.
Orthodox Christian belief takes one of two views:
a) Calvinists, believing as they do in eternal security, would generally hold that if a man professes to be a believer but continues to practise murder, incest and bestiality, then that would indicate that he was never genuinely converted.
b) Arminians would hold that even if his conversion was genuine, his continuance in such practices would necessarily mean that he had repudiated his covenant relationship.
However, Brad, you appear to be positing a very different view. You appear to be arguing that a man can, after conversion, continue to practise murder, incest and bestiality and still remain in a covenant relationship with Christ. Am I understanding you correctly? Or am I misinterpreting you in some way. |
My view gives this fellow the grace, after conversion to do this:
Col 3:8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.
Eph. 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Eph. 4:31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
I don't really care which pigeon hole I fall in, I simply believe a man can be in covenant relationship with God, blessed with all spiritual blessing (Eph. 1:3) and seated with Christ (Col. 3:1-3 and Eph. 2:6) and still have some things he needs to "put off" or "put away"...as did Paul.
Sometimes covenant believers "who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus" (1 Cor. 1:2) and who "are in Christ Jesus" (1 Cor. 1:30) need to be told not to have sex with prostitutes.
1 Cor. 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! 16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “The two shall become one flesh.” 17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
10/16/15 12:45 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| bradfreeman wrote: | Sometimes covenant believers "who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus" (1 Cor. 1:2) and who "are in Christ Jesus" (1 Cor. 1:30) need to be told not to have sex with prostitutes.
1 Cor. 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! 16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “The two shall become one flesh.” 17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body. |
Ummm, I just entered a spin zone......... |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
10/16/15 2:07 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | 1 John 3:15 says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 Cor. 6:9-11 says that the sexually immoral shall not inherit the kingdom of God. |
IF a person commits a murder then he IS a murderer. Nothing can change that fact. He may be a forgiven murderer but he is still a murderer. What you have posted is an affirmation that there will be no murderers or sexually immoral in heaven. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
10/16/15 3:50 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
H | c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | 1 John 3:15 says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 Cor. 6:9-11 says that the sexually immoral shall not inherit the kingdom of God. |
IF a person commits a murder then he IS a murderer. Nothing can change that fact. He may be a forgiven murderer but he is still a murderer. What you have posted is an affirmation that there will be no murderers or sexually immoral in heaven. |
Paul was a murderer and a blasphemer, but obtained mercy through the grace of repentance and faith in Jesus (I.e., conversion).
In 1 Cor 6:9-11, the inspired apostle said, "And such were some of you, but ye were washed...sanctified...justified."
Paul also warns that the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, those who go on persisting in willful sin:
Eph. 5:3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. 13But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12802
10/16/15 6:48 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| It is true that believers are commanded to put to death that which is earthly within them. Some seem to think it actually says to pet it to death though. The New Testament is very clear that those who continue in willful disobedience/sin are headed down the wrong way, the way that leads to destruction. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12802
10/16/15 6:58 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | It is true that believers are commanded to put to death that which is earthly within them. Some seem to think it actually says to pet it to death though. The New Testament is very clear that those who continue in willful disobedience/sin are headed down the wrong way, the way that leads to destruction. |
Nothing wrong here QW. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
10/16/15 9:48 pm
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