| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 Mission projects |
Dentanner |
Cross Cultural Ministries/Missionaries
I would be interested in hearing from pastors and others their opinion and views on current trends in missionary support and the sending/appointing of ministers to be cross cultural ministers. It appears many churches are moving toward short term investment in projects and support of national workers. How do others see this? Do we consider the need for accountability? Are we concerned about project administrative costs? Is the future of world evangelism going to be project managers overseeing social projects around the world? What percentage of funds raised will actually get to the field after administrative fees and salary for project managers is taken out? Who will be accountable for projects after the project manager leaves the field? Many questions but intended for discussion points.
_________________
Dennis Tanner
Administrative Bishop Scotland
Church of God Career Missionary |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 97
9/22/15 9:04 am
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| Hello My Brutha |
wayne |
It's been a while since you were at our Church, We want to see you in that kilt again   
questions about your questions:
Maybe I am overanalyzing what you are asking but are there administrative costs for sending monies to missionaries, is there not a steady stream of funds flowing from the COG/churches? Do you feel like you are being pushed into a project manager role?
I have had some personal frustration with COG missions. We recently brought a congregation into the COG in El-Salvador. I know this gentleman personally because he was a member of my church until he was deported back to his home country. After being returned to El-Salvador, God saw fit to position him in a church to take over for a Pastor that had passed. Our Church has been supporting him for over 2 years now and it took a lot of phone calls and emails to get his church brought into the COG and after being brought in - it was a nightmare to get our funds sent to him. I send a message through LinkedIn once a month to make sure the funds have arrived and that they will be given to Tito. If I didn't/don't harass, this congregation would not be in the COG today and he would never get the money we send him.
Do our missionaries have this much trouble in the field? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1274
9/22/15 10:28 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Hello My Brutha |
Dentanner |
| wayne wrote: |
Maybe I am overanalyzing what you are asking but are there administrative costs for sending monies to missionaries, is there not a steady stream of funds flowing from the COG/churches? Do you feel like you are being pushed into a project manager role? |
Hello Pastor, No, there are no administrative costs for sending monies to missionaries through COGWM but there are administrative costs for missionaries. We have to pay for promotional material, travel expense, VISA and residency applications, IRS forms and reporting and health (special requirements for those living overseas) and life insurance. I wish we could enact a policy where missionaries donated or gave to COGWM and then the administrative staff at COGWM did the administrative work for the missionaries giving us more time for ministry.
Sadly there is not a "steady stream of funds flowing from churches". Many churches with a 'project mentality' will take a new project each year. That means that once a missionary raises faith promises and support, many churches, after one year, will drop that project number (even though the missionary is still living overseas and in ministry) and start supporting another project number. Other churches, because of finances and other budgetary items with just drop their missionary support. Many times the church or individual will drop individual missionary support to fund or support a specially promoted project ie: 'feeding program'; 'orphanage'; 'special one time evangelism meeting'; 'medical project'; etc. Today I believe there are less than 40 "career appointed missionaries' with the COGWM, the others are associates, or those who only travel for 1-2 weeks on special "projects". In Europe we only have 4-5 career appointed missionaries, and 3 of them are currently in USA raising funds.
_________________
Dennis Tanner
Administrative Bishop Scotland
Church of God Career Missionary |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 97
9/23/15 10:12 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Cojak |
There is a lot to discuss and digest here I think. I hope this thread gets some traction, it sounds important. I was raised in a family that held a life time commitment to Missions. In the early days I think I THOUGHT that missionaries were only in Africa.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24281
9/23/15 10:37 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Dentanner |
| Cojak wrote: | | There is a lot to discuss and digest here I think. I hope this thread gets some traction, it sounds important. I was raised in a family that held a life time commitment to Missions. In the early days I think I THOUGHT that missionaries were only in Africa. |
"only real missionaries go to live in Africa, learn the language, and raise their children" 
_________________
Dennis Tanner
Administrative Bishop Scotland
Church of God Career Missionary |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 97
9/23/15 11:08 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Dentanner |
| Cojak wrote: | | There is a lot to discuss and digest here I think. I hope this thread gets some traction, it sounds important. I was raised in a family that held a life time commitment to Missions. In the early days I think I THOUGHT that missionaries were only in Africa. |
One former missionary in post Ceaușescu Romania, Rodney Friend, was an example of a "real" missionary committed to living among the people and sacrificing the comforts of USA to live in a small cold apartment where he had to walk and stand in line for several hours for a loaf of bread to feed his small children! He loved the Romanian people and learned their culture! A book should be written about his work in Romania, Europe, and at ETS in Germany. He is a walking miracle having won over cancer and is now pastoring in Michigan. We miss him in Europe.
_________________
Dennis Tanner
Administrative Bishop Scotland
Church of God Career Missionary |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 97
9/23/15 11:15 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
| When I was in Bible college back in the 80s, itinerating missionaries who would come to speak to us often noted how important it was for full-time career missionaries to receive consistent financial support. I was also surprised when they also said they didn't think short-term missions trips were overall of much benefit to the cause. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12801
9/23/15 1:03 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
diakoneo |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | When I was in Bible college back in the 80s, itinerating missionaries who would come to speak to us often noted how important it was for full-time career missionaries to receive consistent financial support. I was also surprised when they also said they didn't think short-term missions trips were overall of much benefit to the cause. |
I have been asked to go on short term mission trips but refused. Part of the reason is I would rather take the transportation cost and expenses and put toward someone already there doing the work. Yes I miss the dynamic of being there, but I think better stewardship is more Biblical when there are others already there and better qualified. There are some skill sets that are needed on a short term basis, when you are talking about construction etc. and those are needful, but usually not basic labor. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
9/23/15 1:32 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Cojak |
| Dentanner wrote: | | Cojak wrote: | | There is a lot to discuss and digest here I think. I hope this thread gets some traction, it sounds important. I was raised in a family that held a life time commitment to Missions. In the early days I think I THOUGHT that missionaries were only in Africa. |
One former missionary in post Ceaușescu Romania, Rodney Friend, was an example of a "real" missionary committed to living among the people and sacrificing the comforts of USA to live in a small cold apartment where he had to walk and stand in line for several hours for a loaf of bread to feed his small children! He loved the Romanian people and learned their culture! A book should be written about his work in Romania, Europe, and at ETS in Germany. He is a walking miracle having won over cancer and is now pastoring in Michigan. We miss him in Europe. |
I love that comment my brother, thanks. I made me feel good.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24281
9/23/15 5:42 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Short mission trips |
Cojak |
I have never been on one. I have visited a couple missionaries and knew many missionaries from growing up in a parsonage when the Missionaries and evangelists stayed in out home. I really did enjoy the tales around the breakfast and supper table.
My guess the short trips are more beneficial to the short term guys, especially the youth, for a first hand view of living in another country. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24281
9/23/15 5:49 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Missions Project |
Dentanner |
There are many pros and cons on the value of short term mission projects. But, if the trend of churches and mission leaders is moving more toward projects rather than long term cross cultural missionary assignments, How do we improve on the effectiveness of the projects? How do we deal with integrity and accountability in Foreign Countries and in other cultures when we have no way to follow up on the project and no authority in the country to enforce accountability? How do we guard integrity in the financial cost and overhead of a project: travel expense, promotional expense, short term insurance; salary or financial support of project coordinators or workers? Do we really want to see a Church Organization entirely focused on projects and social ministry? Or do we value training and sending out Cross Cultural Ministers to learn the language and work with the people? Are we willing and committed as a church or pastor to financially and prayerfully support the long term career missionary?
_________________
Dennis Tanner
Administrative Bishop Scotland
Church of God Career Missionary |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 97
9/23/15 7:25 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
The local church that I am blessed to pastor consistently gives, on average, 10% of its total income as voluntarily individually designated giving to career missionaries. This is in addition to the ToT/missions giving we send in monthly. We have given occasionally to short-term projects, but that would definitely be the exception and not the rule.
Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 9/23/15 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12801
9/23/15 8:39 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Short term missions |
Tracy S Hamilton |
I believe in short term missions. Most people I know who are full time missionaries "first" did a short term trip.
I have taken teams for nearly 15 years doing short term trips. It has caused increased giving to missions and missionaries and projects within our church.
The opinion from missionaries about short term trips varies. Short term trips help supply much needed help in certain areas as well as support from those who come.
Many missionaries recognize that some who do a short term trip will one day be called and will commit to long term service.
I understand there are varying opinions on this topic. I for one have seen the positive impact on the lives of young people and our church in general. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2716
9/23/15 8:40 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Short Term Missions |
Ed Brewer |
Bro. Tanner - I would love to share with you about a new missions model the Holy Spirit is raising up between South Carolina pastors and strategic leaders in Latin America. The initiative is called "Pentecostus", and was birthed in the heart of our friend Ken Anderson. We are having our third meeting of the Pentecostus task force along with leaders from SC and MX/Central America early next month in Cancun. Bro. Julio Melendez (overseer of MX & member of the task force) is hosting us this year - we've hosted the team in Myrtle Beach for the last 2 years - and we are including prospective partners from both contexts for a meeting that we feel the Lord will use to do something explosive in mission partnership development. Over the course of the last 5 years, God has cemented dozens of strategic, active partnerships between missions-hearted pastors and leaders of territories and educational institutions/programs. Not only has that fomented multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of direct, accountable impact but has ensured the continuity of those dollars through interdependent strategies for sustainability, precisely deployed and navigated by the leaders on the field and accounted for by COG World Missions along with indigenous leadership structures. If you would like more info, feel free to contact me personally (edbrewer@bellsouth.net) and we can arrange a chat. Blessings as you minister to my old 'stomping grounds' -- I love Scotland!
_________________
....from Barney Creek to Bountyland through every open door |
Friendly Face
Posts: 312
9/23/15 8:43 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Short term missions |
Cojak |
| Tracy S Hamilton wrote: | I believe in short term missions. Most people I know who are full time missionaries "first" did a short term trip.
I have taken teams for nearly 15 years doing short term trips. It has caused increased giving to missions and missionaries and projects within our church.
The opinion from missionaries about short term trips varies. Short term trips help supply much needed help in certain areas as well as support from those who come.
Many missionaries recognize that some who do a short term trip will one day be called and will commit to long term service.
I understand there are varying opinions on this topic. I for one have seen the positive impact on the lives of young people and our church in general. |
YOu said that well, that was what I was tryingto say when I said it did the Short termer more good that the Mission field itself. What you have said I think is true Tracy 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24281
9/24/15 12:09 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Mission Projects |
Dentanner |
How many readers would prefer financially supporting a project rather than a missionary? You won't hurt my feelings by your response, I am just interested in knowing and it might help me make some adjustment is my presentation to church mission leaders and pastors.
How many readers have actually switched projects after one year? Is there an understanding or knowledge that most missionaries, cross cultural ministers live and stay in the country or ministry of their calling for longer than a year?
While a project can be completed in one year, a missionary's ministry as a cross cultural minister is a life time commitment!. We may work ourselves out of a job in one area but will alway be faced with another need on the Field that must be met and that is why we stay.
_________________
Dennis Tanner
Administrative Bishop Scotland
Church of God Career Missionary |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 97
9/24/15 10:10 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| my opinion/suggestions |
wayne |
As a Pastor, I always advise missionaries to show what they are doing in whatever country they represent. The reason I do this is because most missionaries that I remember speaking at our churches have been really boring. They have talked in a very monotone voice and usually put people to sleep.
Recently, we had Chris/Kathy Swift come to our church for a second time. Please don't take this wrong but the first time he was with us - he was a little boring. The second time after a little coaching from me - he and his wife tag teamed a message, showed pictures/videos of their work and as a result out church raised almost 5000.00 for them. (feel free to verify)
Personally, I believe there is very poor communication when it involves missions. The only thing we hear about is the "project of the year." We don't usually hear about all the others.
I remember as a child have pictures of missionaries posted in our Sunday School rooms and we were told that this is the person/country we were supporting. Why don't we go back to this?
As a result of me remembering this, our church has designated our Sunday School offerings be sent to world missions - divided between Christ Swift and Dennis Tanner. It may not be a lot but every month something is being sent to world missions and on top of this we support a work in El-Salvador.
What about a monthly video from each missionary be sent to the churches to constantly keep missions on the minds of the church members? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1274
9/24/15 11:09 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
| Excellent suggestions, Wayne! |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12801
9/24/15 11:12 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| My opinions |
bonnie knox |
I would rather support an ongoing "work," which would probably translate into supporting a missionary who is working in a particular area for a long period of time.
I don't think missionaries should have to take time away from their work in the field to go around begging funds.
I think the communications about what is happening in the various "works" should be a centralized proposition. In other words, the missions department would be responsible for making available newsletters, videos, etc. of each work. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
9/24/15 11:52 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: My opinions |
Cojak |
| bonnie knox wrote: | **************************************************************************
I don't think missionaries should have to take time away from their work in the field to go around begging funds.
I think the communications about what is happening in the various "works" should be a centralized proposition. In other words, the missions department would be responsible for making available newsletters, videos, etc. of each work. |
This touches a nerve that is still raw. Many years ago a friend who felt called to the mission field was visiting us after many years, while he was home on 'leave'. I casually mentioned I bet he was glad to have a vacation. He come close to a BIG LAUGH, I have a schedule that would wear a baseball team out. I now must raise my own yearly budget while home. I Was SHOCKED?
As a youngster in the COG I thought Bro. Summers (?), Lauster, V. kirk, were supported by our church missions monies. Later Bro. Matthews and Fred Brannen, Buddy Turner updated me some on the financial end.
In the past we have sent directly to a missionary by a direct deposit or their family member.
I have wondered about other organizations, do the full time missionaries have to raise their own budget?
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24281
9/24/15 3:18 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
