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How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer in it?

 
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Post How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer in it? bradfreeman
Paul tracks this same line of thought in Colossians 2:11 through Colossians 3:5.

Can believers continue in sin? Certainly not. We are dead to sin.

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?" Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" Rom. 6:1,2

How can believers "who died to sin" keep living in it.

We don't live in sin. We live "in Christ".
Our new life is hidden with Christ in God!

"Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Rom. 6:3,4

We have been "baptized into Christ Jesus". We are in Christ.
We "were baptized into His death"! His death WAS our death.

He was buried. We "were buried".
He was raised. We "should walk in newness of life".

"For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin." Rom. 6:5-7

Our "old man was crucified with Him". The part of me that was united in spirit with Adam was put to death. There was a circumcision of my heart and I received a new spirit - I was born of the spirit.

My flesh, my body of sin, my body of death where sin dwells (Rom 7:17-25) was cut away from my heart so that I would be freed from slavery to what my mortal body does - sin.

We have been "freed from sin".
We have been freed from death. He "dies no more" and He is our life!
We are freed from the law of sin and death.

The law of the spirit of life in Christ has made us free from sin, free from death!

"Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him." Rom. 6:8,9

We "died with Christ".

"For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom. 6:10,11

He "died to sin once". We died to sin once.
We need to "reckon" something...
1. That we are "dead indeed to sin"
2. That we are "alive to God in Christ".

We are not dying to sin. We are dead to sin. We do not, we cannot, live any longer in it.

"Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts." Rom. 6:12

It is from this position of being "dead to sin" and "alive to God in Christ" that we can now go to war with the sin in our mortal bodies, the "law of sin which is in my members" (Rom. 7:23)!

Our mortal bodies may sin, but it is no longer us doing it! There is no condemnation for us because we are "in Christ"!

"But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me." Rom. 7:17-20
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Post Travis Johnson
26Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27There is only the terrible expectation of God�s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to us. HEBREWS 10 NLT Acts-dicted
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9/9/15 9:47 pm


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Post mytimewillcome
'Receiving knowledge of the truth' could mean hearing the gospel message and rejecting it. The passage explains itself, in my opinion, in that in the law of Moses, the people were covered because of who they were as Israelites. The High Priest took care of business for them each year.

Someone who rejects the message of Christ has no more sacrifices under the Old Covenant left to cover them so they are finished. The only thing left is the fiery judgment.
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9/10/15 1:46 am


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Post Travis Johnson
It means, if you deliberately go on sinning, you're done.



Don't thrown away your confident hope in Christ.

Remember when you lost everything for Jesus? Don't trample on Him. Remain faithful.

Patient endurance is what you need so you will continue to do God's will. Read the rest of 10 if that isnt enough direction for Christians who had turned from religious rigamorole to Jesus. When we turned to Him, we are still to stop sinning.

Brad predictably uses too many words to explain complicated schemes to get around basic directives in the Scriptures.
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9/10/15 4:35 am


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Post bradfreeman
Thanks Travis,

Context is vital to accurately understanding any passage. "too many words" is preferable to plucking a verse out of context to argue a point.

So: Does Heb. 10:26 means that deliberate sin causes you to lose your salvation?

I'll give you a short answer then a long answer.

The short answer is: If your sin is unbelief - considering Jesus blood and "unclean" and rejecting "the Spirit of grace" - then, yes.

These Jews were under tremendous pressure to revert from "faith righteousness" back to "works righteousness".

Heb. 10:36 But My righteous one shall live by faith;
And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.


The "destruction" was because that shrank back from faith/confidence into works/fear.

There is only one life that gets you in - the life of faith (not the sinless life).
There is only one sin that keeps you out - unbelief in the sacrifice of Jesus and rejecting the Spirit of grace's efforts to bring you into this truth.

If we "live by faith", we die by unbelief.

The long answer is:

This is an important question. One that might be best answered, first, by avoiding one of the least accurate translations of the Bible - NLT. NLT is great for casual reading, but when it comes to important theological questions, you should rely on the most accurate versions - NASB, NKJV and NRSV.

Travis Johnson wrote:
It means, if you deliberately go on sinning, you're done.



Don't thrown away your confident hope in Christ.

Remember when you lost everything for Jesus? Don't trample on Him. Remain faithful.

Patient endurance is what you need so you will continue to do God's will. Read the rest of 10 if that isnt enough direction for Christians who had turned from religious rigamorole to Jesus. When we turned to Him, we are still to stop sinning.

Brad predictably uses too many words to explain complicated schemes to get around basic directives in the Scriptures.


Hebrews 10 is a different topic.

Paul (or whoever) is writing to Hebrews about making the transition from an old covenant (works righteousness) to a "better" new covenant (faith righteousness). In Hebrews 3 and 4 Paul identifies the "sin" that keeps you out (unbelief) and the obedience (faith) that gets you in.

Heb. 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Evil - "poneros" full of labors.

Unbelief = works
Faith = rest

Heb. 3:17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

What was their sin?
What was their disobedience?
What did there unbelief prevent them from entering? Rest

Heb. 4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.


We don't enter "our rest". We enter "His rest" accomplished because of His finished work.

Then Paul explains how this faith covenant is better.
Heb. 5 - 7 - a better priest (Melchizedek over Levi)
Heb. 8 - a better ministry
Heb. 8 - a better covenant
Heb. 9, 10 - a better sacrifice in a better tabernacle taking away sin

So Hebrews 10:26 explains that we persist in unbelief that His blood has done what Heb. 10:1-25 says it did and:

1. Trample under foot the Son of God;
2. Consider His blood unclean;
3. Insult the Spirit of grace

They would find themselves without a sacrifice for sins since "He takes away the first in order to establish the second" (Heb. 10:9).

The first sacrifice has been taken away. The first covenant is obsolete.
You receive the better sacrifice by faith.
If you persist in unbelief (full of labors, not rest in His work), if you don't believe His sacrifice is better (you consider it unclean and ineffective), you have nothing to remove your sin and have nothing to look forward to but wrath and vengeance.
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Post bradfreeman
mytimewillcome wrote:
'Receiving knowledge of the truth' could mean hearing the gospel message and rejecting it. The passage explains itself, in my opinion, in that in the law of Moses, the people were covered because of who they were as Israelites. The High Priest took care of business for them each year.

Someone who rejects the message of Christ has no more sacrifices under the Old Covenant left to cover them so they are finished. The only thing left is the fiery judgment.


Nailed it.
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Post Quiet Wyatt
Travis Johnson wrote:
It means, if you deliberately go on sinning, you're done.



Don't thrown away your confident hope in Christ.

Remember when you lost everything for Jesus? Don't trample on Him. Remain faithful.

Patient endurance is what you need so you will continue to do God's will. Read the rest of 10 if that isnt enough direction for Christians who had turned from religious rigamorole to Jesus. When we turned to Him, we are still to stop sinning.

Brad predictably uses too many words to explain complicated schemes to get around basic directives in the Scriptures.


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9/10/15 6:42 am


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Post bradfreeman
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
It means, if you deliberately go on sinning, you're done.



Don't thrown away your confident hope in Christ.

Remember when you lost everything for Jesus? Don't trample on Him. Remain faithful.

Patient endurance is what you need so you will continue to do God's will. Read the rest of 10 if that isnt enough direction for Christians who had turned from religious rigamorole to Jesus. When we turned to Him, we are still to stop sinning.

Brad predictably uses too many words to explain complicated schemes to get around basic directives in the Scriptures.


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I suppose its easy enough for folks to view this passage differently - especially if you don't put it in the context of the new covenant promise immediately preceding it that He will remember our sins and lawless deeds no more again removing the need for any further sacrifice. See Heb. 10:17

Heb. 10:17 “And their sins and their lawless deeds
I will remember no more.”
18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.


That's part of what makes the change from Law to the new covenant better, we no longer have sin imputed to us!

Rom. 4:14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

Rom. 5:13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom. 7:8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

I am curious though. If you view Heb. 10:26-29 as standing for the proposition that he is writing about all sin including unbelief and "If you deliberately go on sinning, you're done", when did you stop deliberately sinning?
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Post Travis Johnson
Come back five years from now and we will still find Brad Freeman writing these 2000 word thought pretzels on Actscelerate explaining how you can give a verbal acknowledgment to Jesus while your life actions mean nothing.

As usual, it's a different day but same song... The song that never ends.
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9/10/15 10:29 am


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Post krista
Travis Johnson wrote:
Come back five years from now and we will still find Brad Freeman writing these 2000 word thought pretzels on Actscelerate explaining how you can give a verbal acknowledgment to Jesus while your life actions mean nothing.

As usual, it's a different day but same song... The song that never ends.


I do believe this is the first time you and I have agreed on anything.
Problem with freeman, is that his theology in the ears of the wrong person can mean damnation. His poison doesn't work with people like us Travis. It does work at times with the innocent and those who do not know the truth. Why he is allowed to continue here is troubling.
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9/10/15 11:15 am


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Travis Johnson wrote:
Come back five years from now and we will still find Brad Freeman writing these 2000 word thought pretzels on Actscelerate explaining how you can give a verbal acknowledgment to Jesus while your life actions mean nothing.


But ats cause post-conversion, when folk sin, it aint their pure spirit what is sinnin, only their weak flesh.
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9/10/15 11:38 am


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Post mytimewillcome
Anyone could be convinced in a logical debate to accept that Jesus was the Christ but never "receive" in the way Tom has described above.

Those individuals would certainly fall into the same category as those who heard the gospel and rejected it, in my opinion.

The difficulty is if the interpretation by many that it refers to "saved" sinning after conversion, where is the line drawn and where is forgiveness? It would appear that any deliberate, continual sin puts one in a place of no forgiveness. If so, we are all in trouble.
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9/10/15 11:55 am


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Post bradfreeman
Travis Johnson wrote:
...your life actions mean nothing.


I don't say this.

Our life actions are how we bring His Kingdom from Heaven to earth.
But the only life actions of value are Him producing in us the fruit of His life, His Spirit.

He is love and He is motivated by love (who He is), not fear, duty, shame, guilt, duty, obligation, shame or condemnation.

So, when we are evidencing His life in us, we aren't motivated by fear, duty, obligation, shame, guilt, condemnation. We are motivated by love.

His covenant with us frees us from fear, duty, shame... Frees us to serve one another by love.
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Post Da Sheik
I don't agree with Brad's theology (too much akin to Gnostic for my taste) but I don't agree with the consensus's take on Hebrews 10 either. There was forgiveness for sins under the Old Covenant (even willful, and to be honest....aren't most sins willful?). The theme of Hebrews is "Jesus is better". If they received forgiveness under the OT, how much more shall we be forgiven by the blood of Christ in the NT! Acts Enthusiast
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9/10/15 1:50 pm


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Post bradfreeman
Tom Sterbens wrote:
So......while everyone is free to have an opinion on what a given scripture may mean - and I respect that - nonetheless, the opinion represented in the previous post may not be supported by any evidence of grammar, linguistics - or context.


Are you suggesting MTWC's post means the audience never believed? I don't see that expressly in the post.

I see Heb. 10:26-29 as still another expression of this recurrent warning throughout the book.

Heb. 3:12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Travis Johnson wrote:
Come back five years from now and we will still find Brad Freeman writing these 2000 word thought pretzels on Actscelerate explaining how you can give a verbal acknowledgment to Jesus while your life actions mean nothing.

As usual, it's a different day but same song... The song that never ends.


Right on.
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Post bradfreeman
Do you fellows think our being "dead to sin" has anything to do with with what Jesus did, or is it simply a matter of what we do?

If we are "dead to sin" how can we live in it?

So you fellows think God WILL impute deliberate sin to a believer?

“Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.””

‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Maybe the blessed man is not so blessed after all...
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