Actscelerate.com Forum Index Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
r/Actscelerate

Reaching out to the "Gay Community"
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
   Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Acts-Celerate Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Message Author
Post Resident Skeptic
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Gay communities are legal, as law abiding as straight folks. The pedophile community, whatever that is and the wife-beating community, whatever that is, are not legal, legitimate communities in this country. But, we always go to the extreme to attempt at making a point. Look, you don't reall give 2 rips about the homosexual communtiy, so just continue doing what you're doing and leave those who do care and are reaching out in the love of Jesus alone.


Eddie, that was a straw man argument if ever there was one. In order for one to "really care" about gays, they must adopt YOUR view of caring. How can you NOT see the point Dolfan was making? How are you going to legitimize the gays as a community and then tell individual gays they must repent and forsake said community? Talk about the trumpet sounding an uncertain sound! Why not just love all sinners equally instead of singling one group out for special love and recognition?
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
9/7/15 4:17 pm


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post Eddie Robbins
Agreed. Mark 12:30-31. Love everybody. Not only that, but act like you do too. Not a secret "well, I love everybody" and the Christianese "love the sinner, hate the sin." That is really effective. Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
9/7/15 5:40 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Resident Skeptic
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Agreed. Mark 12:30-31. Love everybody. Not only that, but act like you do too. Not a secret "well, I love everybody" and the Christianese "love the sinner, hate the sin." That is really effective.


God is going to throw the sinner into hell, not his sin.

But concerning gays. I was in the wholesale flower business for years. Half of my customers were gay men, some couples. I treated them like anyone else. I rewarded their loyalty, taking them out to eat. I was never once ashamed to be seen with them or to show them respect as good customers. Their personal life was not my business.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
9/7/15 5:49 pm


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post Nick Park
The word 'community' simply means a group of people who have a shared interest or characteristic.

To say that using the word 'community' legitimizes a group's activities is to fundamentally misunderstand the English language.

It is also perfectly reasonable to say that you are building bridges with a community for the purpose of evangelism, even if converts produced by such evangelism may have to end up leaving that community.

There's another English word that describes a Christian who deliberately builds relationships and dialogues with another community. It is 'missionary'.

Tonight, in our church, we listened to the testimony of a guy who used to be a friend of Yasser Arafat and a sniper for the PLO (he was accompanied by his close friend - a Messianic Jew). This Muslim Arab was part of a Muslim community. He was won for Christ because a Christian businessman lovingly and respectfully engaged with his community. To recognize that a 'Muslim community' exists is not legitimizing Islam. It is simply acknowledging a sociological reality. And that is the first step to engaging in missionary evangelism.
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland

http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
9/7/15 5:58 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Resident Skeptic
Nick Park wrote:
The word 'community' simply means a group of people who have a shared interest or characteristic.

To say that using the word 'community' legitimizes a group's activities is to fundamentally misunderstand the English language.

It is also perfectly reasonable to say that you are building bridges with a community for the purpose of evangelism, even if converts produced by such evangelism may have to end up leaving that community.

There's another English word that describes a Christian who deliberately builds relationships and dialogues with another community. It is 'missionary'.

Tonight, in our church, we listened to the testimony of a guy who used to be a friend of Yasser Arafat and a sniper for the PLO (he was accompanied by his close friend - a Messianic Jew). This Muslim Arab was part of a Muslim community. He was won for Christ because a Christian businessman lovingly and respectfully engaged with his community. To recognize that a 'Muslim community' exists is not legitimizing Islam. It is simply acknowledging a sociological reality. And that is the first step to engaging in missionary evangelism.


We are called to take the gospel to NATIONS, not special interest groups. And though technically your understanding of the word "community" might be correct, it can and will be taken as us legitimizing a life style.

As Dolfan stated...

Quote:
Acknowledging some group as a "community", per se, legitimizes the thing that they commune around in the first place. Rhetorically, that is RS's point, I think. And, it puts the church to speaking from both sides of its mouth to use the legitimizing language of "community" only to then say "this community must repent of what unites it" or "repent and follow Jesus away from this community".

Is the church's use of the word "community" in this way important? RS thinks it is, and I am not sure he is wrong. We do empower whatever collective "the gays" are when we use their own language to describe them. It is not merely passive talk. Groups choose words by usage to label themselves as they see themselves. They choose words that embolden their choices of how to live. Homosexuals especially use language this way, but by no means are they unique.

_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
9/7/15 6:18 pm


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post mytimewillcome
The ignorant redneck community needs love too Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3661
9/8/15 12:44 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Reaching out to the "Gay Community" bradfreeman
Resident Skeptic wrote:
To those who invoke the "all sin is the same" blather, I'd like to know when you are going to start reaching out to the other "communities" Paul mentioned in I Corinthians 6:9-11, lifestyles he says will never enter the Kingdom?
"Wrongdoers, Sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, greedy, drunkards, swindlers, slanderers, extortioners".


There is only one lifestyle that enters the kingdom - the life of faith.

"For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall [i]live by faith.[/i]” Rom. 1:17

If you are in faith you are in Christ, judged by His works, a righteous man and in the kingdom.
If you are not in faith, you are in Adam, and will be judged by his works, your works and found unrighteous.

Our disdain for sin won't change anyone. The power of God to change a man is in the Good News that Jesus has reconciled the world to God and taken away the sin of the world. We need to call them what God calls them - clean and holy - if we want that Word to produce the fruit of that seed in their lives - clean and holy lives.

Acts 10:14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.” 15 Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.” ... 28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean.

God has cleansed and reconciled every man. Consider them holy.
When they hear and believe this Good News, it produces His life in them.

Gal. 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!

My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
9/8/15 6:45 am


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Eddie Robbins
mytimewillcome wrote:
The ignorant redneck community needs love too


I love you!
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
9/8/15 6:54 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Reaching out to the "Gay Community" Resident Skeptic
bradfreeman wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
To those who invoke the "all sin is the same" blather, I'd like to know when you are going to start reaching out to the other "communities" Paul mentioned in I Corinthians 6:9-11, lifestyles he says will never enter the Kingdom?
"Wrongdoers, Sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, greedy, drunkards, swindlers, slanderers, extortioners".


There is only one lifestyle that enters the kingdom - the life of faith.

"For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall [i]live by faith.[/i]” Rom. 1:17

If you are in faith you are in Christ, judged by His works, a righteous man and in the kingdom.
If you are not in faith, you are in Adam, and will be judged by his works, your works and found unrighteous.

Our disdain for sin won't change anyone. The power of God to change a man is in the Good News that Jesus has reconciled the world to God and taken away the sin of the world. We need to call them what God calls them - clean and holy - if we want that Word to produce the fruit of that seed in their lives - clean and holy lives.

Acts 10:14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.” 15 Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.” ... 28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean.

God has cleansed and reconciled every man. Consider them holy.
When they hear and believe this Good News, it produces His life in them.

Gal. 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?


Yes to get to Heaven requires only one thing, salvation by grace through faith. But according to Paul there are many things that will keep you OUT of Heaven. And hearing the good news only creates life in those who OBEY the message....

Quote:
We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.” (Acts 5:32)

_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
9/8/15 9:32 am


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post dolfan
Eddie, you can question my love for people and say I am an ignorant redneck. I guess you can even do that in some twisted version of love. Fact is, I will go the distance and DO so for homosexuals and transgenders and murderers WITH the message of Jesus. I know them and love them as well as any ignorant redneck can. If you can manage that, we are on the same team. So quit elbowing me.

RS made a point and I agree with him. He did not criticize Christians for reaching homosexuals with the gospel. What he did is in the tradition of some of the best minds of men in our faith, and that is to hold us to account for our use of language. Words are vehicles of meaning, and those meanings are true or not true. Ravi Zacharias is one such man. He says, "answers to ... uestions [on] origin, meaning, morality and destiny...must be correspondingly true ... and all answers together must be coherent." Only the gospel is logically consistent, empirically adequate and experientially relevant.

Empirically, Jesus and His teachings are unique and He alone demonstrated the Truth in a way astoundingly distinct from any other proponent of truth outside of His teachings. He alone claimed to be God and sacrifice for salvation.

But, that presumes a need for Him, which no other world view admits. Sin stems from choice, which follows free will, which is a consequence of love of the highest and best kind. Only Jesus walks us from a loving God who gave us free choice based in His love, who foresaw our sinful rejection of Himself, and to Himself as the same God who redeems us from that rejection.

We have worth and value only to the extent we are made in His image. The homosexuals do "commune" around one central idea--that they possess the authority over themselves to reject the image of God, that they alone can say to the "I AM" that "We don't care who You are, we will live as we say we are." Understand the implication: if the church admits of a homosexual "community" it admits of the authority that homosexuals usurp to themselves to reject the image of God in them. A community, after all, sets its own boundaries -- and, THAT is the prevailing meaning of "community", not mere commonality of interest which is "affinity". To the extent that we use that word to describe them, we yield to them the emphatic power of that word to decide their own meaning. That is precisely why in the world every more or less cohesive group takes the word up for itself, and they do so as quickly in their life cycle as they can because of that very same implied power.

And, to hear some of you guys, you do not think it worth consideration except by ignorant rednecks.
_________________
"Human government bears the same relation to hell as the church bears to heaven." -- David Lipscomb
Friendly Face
Posts: 356
9/8/15 1:15 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Old Time Country Preacher
Eddie Robbins wrote:
mytimewillcome wrote:
The ignorant redneck community needs love too


I love you!


I agree with, Eddie, mytime. We all love you. Group hug please.
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15559
9/8/15 1:56 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Eddie Robbins
dolfan wrote:
Eddie, you can question my love for people and say I am an ignorant redneck. I guess you can even do that in some twisted version of love. Fact is, I will go the distance and DO so for homosexuals and transgenders and murderers WITH the message of Jesus. I know them and love them as well as any ignorant redneck can. If you can manage that, we are on the same team. So quit elbowing me.

RS made a point and I agree with him. He did not criticize Christians for reaching homosexuals with the gospel. What he did is in the tradition of some of the best minds of men in our faith, and that is to hold us to account for our use of language. Words are vehicles of meaning, and those meanings are true or not true. Ravi Zacharias is one such man. He says, "answers to ... uestions [on] origin, meaning, morality and destiny...must be correspondingly true ... and all answers together must be coherent." Only the gospel is logically consistent, empirically adequate and experientially relevant.

Empirically, Jesus and His teachings are unique and He alone demonstrated the Truth in a way astoundingly distinct from any other proponent of truth outside of His teachings. He alone claimed to be God and sacrifice for salvation.

But, that presumes a need for Him, which no other world view admits. Sin stems from choice, which follows free will, which is a consequence of love of the highest and best kind. Only Jesus walks us from a loving God who gave us free choice based in His love, who foresaw our sinful rejection of Himself, and to Himself as the same God who redeems us from that rejection.

We have worth and value only to the extent we are made in His image. The homosexuals do "commune" around one central idea--that they possess the authority over themselves to reject the image of God, that they alone can say to the "I AM" that "We don't care who You are, we will live as we say we are." Understand the implication: if the church admits of a homosexual "community" it admits of the authority that homosexuals usurp to themselves to reject the image of God in them. A community, after all, sets its own boundaries -- and, THAT is the prevailing meaning of "community", not mere commonality of interest which is "affinity". To the extent that we use that word to describe them, we yield to them the emphatic power of that word to decide their own meaning. That is precisely why in the world every more or less cohesive group takes the word up for itself, and they do so as quickly in their life cycle as they can because of that very same implied power.

And, to hear some of you guys, you do not think it worth consideration except by ignorant rednecks.



I read the first few words and stopped because I have never called anyone an ignorant redneck. So, no need to read the rest.
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
9/8/15 2:51 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Resident Skeptic
Tom Sterbens wrote:
dolfan wrote:
What he did is in the tradition of some of the best minds of men in our faith, ....

That's a stretch on several levels...

Nonetheless - if, in our effort to reach the lost, we get bogged down in semantics and endless debate over semantics, we never really get to the point of communicating anything redemptive. I would rather engage in dialog over matters of life than waste time in a war of semantics. But that's me...

Do you think granting the premise they are a "community" somehow renders our communication of the gospel as illegitimate or concedes to their larger view on matters of homosexuality and faith in Jesus Christ?


THEY will take it as legitimizing, then feel confused when you tell them they must leave that community.

And why not finish Dolfan's statement? I'll do it for you.....

Quote:
and that is to hold us to account for our use of language. Words are vehicles of meaning, and those meanings are true or not true. Ravi Zacharias is one such man. He says, "answers to ... uestions [on] origin, meaning, morality and destiny...must be correspondingly true ... and all answers together must be coherent." Only the gospel is logically consistent, empirically adequate and experientially relevant.

_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
9/9/15 10:58 am


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post Quiet Wyatt
You may not wish to refer to them as a community, but they certainly see themselves that way. I have had occasion to try to minister to families before that were filled with incest, abuse, and alcoholism. They were still a family. A sick, perverted, dysfunctional family/community no doubt, but a family/community nevertheless. The homos can be considered a suburb (or ghetto) within the community of the lost, depraved, hopeless world without Christ. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12784
9/9/15 1:03 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Nick Park
This thread is quite surreal. I'm reminded of Humpty Dumpty in "Through the Looking Glass".

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'


The argument seems to be that one or two posters have decided to redefine the word 'community' to mean "A group of people whose behavior we approve of and want to legitimize". (I'm unaware of any dictionary, English or American, that defines it that way).

Meanwhile the rest of the English-speaking world uses the word 'community' as a morally neutral term to denote a group of people who share a feeling of identity and group around common characteristics.

Now, if you want to use words, like Humpty Dumpty, with your own special meanings, then no-one can stop you. Anyone can talk in code if they wish. But other people, who use words in their regular meanings, probably aren't going to understand your message very well.

To pour scorn and vitriol on those people who, perfectly correctly, identify communities which need special missiological emphasis, seems to be a waste of energy and a needless quarrel over semantics.
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland

http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
9/9/15 2:18 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Resident Skeptic
Nick Park wrote:
This thread is quite surreal. I'm reminded of Humpty Dumpty in "Through the Looking Glass".

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'


The argument seems to be that one or two posters have decided to redefine the word 'community' to mean "A group of people whose behavior we approve of and want to legitimize". (I'm unaware of any dictionary, English or American, that defines it that way).

Meanwhile the rest of the English-speaking world uses the word 'community' as a morally neutral term to denote a group of people who share a feeling of identity and group around common characteristics.

Now, if you want to use words, like Humpty Dumpty, with your own special meanings, then no-one can stop you. Anyone can talk in code if they wish. But other people, who use words in their regular meanings, probably aren't going to understand your message very well.

To pour scorn and vitriol on those people who, perfectly correctly, identify communities which need special missiological emphasis, seems to be a waste of energy and a needless quarrel over semantics.


Communities don't receive the gospel, individuals do.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
9/9/15 4:20 pm


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post Nick Park
Resident Skeptic wrote:

Communities don't receive the gospel, individuals do.


And targeting of communities can cause large numbers of individuals to receive the Gospel.

For example, 15 years ago I began ministering to the Roma gypsy community in Ireland. This community, numbering about 10,000 people, were not responding to conventional evangelistic approaches. Today, praise God, we have seven churches among them, and over 20% of them are members of the Church of God.

A colleague of mine has targeted Hindu and Muslim communities in small towns in Ireland. In some cases he has seen over 50% of them saved and added to the Church.

This is missions outreach that works and glorifies God. Those who practice it are very far from being spineless. And if anyone can take a similar approach to the gay community and win souls then I will honor them as brave witnesses - no matter who jeers at them from the sidelines.
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland

http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
9/9/15 5:42 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Resident Skeptic
Nick Park wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:

Communities don't receive the gospel, individuals do.


And targeting of communities can cause large numbers of individuals to receive the Gospel.

For example, 15 years ago I began ministering to the Roma gypsy community in Ireland. This community, numbering about 10,000 people, were not responding to conventional evangelistic approaches. Today, praise God, we have seven churches among them, and over 20% of them are members of the Church of God.

A colleague of mine has targeted Hindu and Muslim communities in small towns in Ireland. In some cases he has seen over 50% of them saved and added to the Church.

This is missions outreach that works and glorifies God. Those who practice it are very far from being spineless. And if anyone can take a similar approach to the gay community and win souls then I will honor them as brave witnesses - no matter who jeers at them from the sidelines.


You took the gospel to a NATION (nationality) as the Great Commission says to. They don't have to stop being Roma if they convert. But HOW can you equate the "gay community" to an ethnic group? There is no comparison. Gays DO have to leave their "community" upon conversion.

Gays have sought and demanded this sort of recognition and legitimacy for years and now the CHURCH is giving it to them.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
9/9/15 6:02 pm


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post mytimewillcome
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3661
9/10/15 1:29 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Eddie Robbins
walk this way....... Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
9/10/15 5:52 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Acts-Celerate Post new topic   Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Acts-celerate Terms of Use | Acts-celerate Policy
Contact the Administrator.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by SpellingCow.