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Methocostal

Does Wine in the Bible contain alcohol or not?

Methocostal · Friendly Face Posts: 496 **8/3/15 9:49 am**

I am positive this has been addressed before, but I'm curious. It does seem (to me) the Bible appears to be contradictory in that it both makes note of Jesus drinking wine and also being against drunkenness. Yes, I know there has to be more to it because I know at its core, the Bible is not contradictory. I know the old Pentecostal view was the Wine was not alcoholic, but it is that a fact or just misinterpretation? I am really curious from the original language of the scripture.

If it did contain alcohol, maybe the Biblical issue is drinking to excess to the point of being drunk. If it intended total abstinence, then how do we justify taking medicines that contain alcohol. Or, if it is OK to take actual medicines that contain alcohol, why can we not take Wine for truly medicinal purposes?

If the issue is regarding altering our mind or body, then how can we take antidepressants as it alters as well. Yes, I do know some people refuse to take those medicines as well on the same theory, or pure ignorance on the legitimacy of depression as a true illness.

The Bible is also against gluttony, but somehow that is conveniently ignored in Pentecostal circles. IMO, it is because it hits too close to home! After all, how many people are far overweight and it isn't always simply hormonal.

I grew up in the era that almost everything was considered a sin. All movies at the theater were sinful, but it was OK to watch on TV. Going to youth ballgames was sinful, and professional games were especially sinful. But, it was OK to watch on TV. Interestingly, most of the rules were anti-female (short hair, "large showy pins", short skirts, ruge, lipstick, etc). Shorts were sin, yet women could wear dresses as long as they were at knee level.

My concern is how many people of my era simply gave up in trying to be a Christian because of the absurdity of some of the rules, that they could not adhere to. When it was "cool", I wore farmer's overalls to Church, naturally to be proper, I wore a tie (with only a white T-Shirt). Naturally, some of the "church ladies" were mortified and commented to my mother. To my eternal surprise, my mother responded "at least he is in Church". The point though, is years later, the son of one of the "church ladies" was killed while under the influence while driving a motorcycle. I do wonder if he simply gave up on Church because of the numerous rules. I wonder if the woman who obviously had such an attitude would have wished he would have continued going to church, even if it was with overalls and tie. Particularly, when the attitude of the Church was he was surely in Hell as he was under the influence when he died.

I truly don't mean to be so liberal that I can justify the use of alcohol, but are we putting up artificial barriers? Personally, I probably do lean that moderate alcohol is not a sin, whereas alcohol to excess is. But, where does that line stop. Secondly, one will never become an alcoholic if they never take the first drink. I don't think excessive rules is any better than excessive liberties one can have due to grace.

doyle

Of course not

Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 **8/3/15 9:58 am**

Of course, wine in the Bible did not contain alcohol. They always kept it in large refrigerators so it would not ferment. Good grief. Don't people these days know anything about Bible history?

Doyle
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Da Sheik

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1865 **8/3/15 10:02 am**

Get ready!! This gets hashed out on here every so often. Twisted Evil

The prohibitionists are going to say that the Hebrew word for wine always refers to the fruit of the vine (i.e. grape juice). I can make a valid case why one probably should not drink, but I cannot make a biblical defense (using scripture) that moderate use of alcohol is sin. I think it falls under the category of debatable matters (Romans 14).

There are two Hebrew words for wine and one of them generally refers to fermented wine and the other does not. The Greek word for wine is "oy'-nos". This is what Jesus turned the water into in John's gospel. It's also the word Paul used to tell the Ephesians not to be filled to excess with.

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **8/3/15 10:10 am**

On Sanford and Son, Aunt Esther told Fred, as he was getting ready to have a drink, "my Bible says to be not drunk with wine." Fred replied "what does it say about Brandy?" The point is, in the Bible, it made them drunk when they drank too much.

Nature Boy Florida

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **8/3/15 10:15 am**

Yeah - I think it's been addressed before.

If it is ok with everyone - I am not going to click on this thread again - as I don't want to be a part of it.

Enjoy folks.
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Methocostal

I'm sorry

Friendly Face Posts: 496 **8/3/15 10:37 am**

I was sure it had been discussed, and probably almost simply "cussed" before, as I recal it from years ago when I was on ACTs. But, I couldn't recall the answers.

Da Sheik. I couldn't determine from your reference whether Jesus turned the water into non alcoholic wine or not. I suppose you meant it did as you later said it was what was not suppose to drunk to excess, but I wanted to be certain that is what you meant.

Are there instances in scripture as to both types or just one?

As I understand, the reasons for the wine was because the water was so bad. Was this alcoholic or not? It would seem if the purpose was to purify the water, it would have to be alcoholic, but I have no idea.

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **8/3/15 10:49 am**

If the purpose was to purify the water, why didn't He turn the water into purified water? If wine was wrong, He could have turned the wine into water. That sure would have given us clarity on the subject. But, no, He turned the water into wine after they ran out of wine! More wine for everybody. And it was good wine!

Da Sheik

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1865 **8/3/15 10:52 am**

You don't have to apologize at all for discussing what's on your mind here. To answer your question, the only other Greek word I'm aware of for wine is "glyoo'kos" and is translated as "new wine" in Acts. And based on the context, I would most certainly say that Luke considered that to be fermented wine since the disciples were being accused of being drunk at nine o'clock in the morning.

So to summarize- the same word used for wine when Jesus performed the miracle is the same word used when Paul warns against drunkenness. Whether or not the wine that Jesus made was fermented or not, I could not say for sure. But it's interesting that the governor of the wedding feast seemed to think that what Jesus made was the "good stuff" and not the watered down stuff. Just points to ponder Very Happy

Methocostal

Excellent point

Friendly Face Posts: 496 **8/3/15 11:40 am**

I hadn't thought of that! So, I guess we just need to eat, drink and be VERY merry Smile

Methocostal

Friendly Face Posts: 496 **8/3/15 11:41 am**

Thank you Sir! Smile

bradfreeman

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **8/3/15 12:13 pm**

This wine has the ability to intoxicate:

1 Cor. 11:20 Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper, 21 for in your eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you.

Jesus made the "good wine".

John 3:10 and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.”

Anyone who knows wine, will tell you old (fermented) wine is the good stuff. But, for the doubter, Jesus confirms this.

Luke 5:39 And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for they say, ‘The old is better.’”
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sheepdogandy

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7307 **8/3/15 12:57 pm**

So Jesus made wine with alcohol so the wedding guests could get smashed.

What about the biblical instruction to "be sober"?
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Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **8/3/15 1:24 pm**

You'll have to ask Jesus why He turned the water into "good" wine. There does seem to be conflict. That's why I said it would have helped us all had He turned the wine into water. Think about it. Is that what you would have done at your church?

bradfreeman

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **8/3/15 1:24 pm**

Old Time Country Preacher

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **8/3/15 1:30 pm**

Can a feller git DRUNK on grape juice?

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **8/3/15 2:39 pm**

Absolutely!

Methocostal

Friendly Face Posts: 496 **8/3/15 2:50 pm**

I suppose if he drank too much, he may wish he was drunk Smile

Doesn't excess grape juice make you need to visit the little boys room more, and I don't mean the liquid reason Smile

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **8/3/15 2:57 pm**

Back in my obese days, I got high on Diet Mountain Dew on the golf course. I drank a 6-pack of the stuff.

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Link · Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **8/3/15 7:05 pm**

[quote="bradfreeman]
John 3:10 and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” [/quote]

I've read that 'drunk freely' translates a word that refers to drunkenness.

Does anyone think Jesus made synthahol?
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Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **8/3/15 7:11 pm**

I saw a documentary on the history of London a while back. A couple of hundred years ago, the Dutch started exporting a fermented liquid known as gin. Prior to that, the strongest thing available was a strong beer. There were a lot of social problems caused by this easy, cheap way to get drunk, and laws were relaxed to make it easier for the English to make and sell it.

But there was a social movement against it. There were stories of poor women selling their bodies to get money to buy gin, criminal robbing people to get money to buy gin.

So then we see social movements in England and in the US. There was the temperance movement, and churches got involved. The Salvation army did not even offer Holy Communion.

I believe the Holiness and Pentecostal totally anti-alcohol stance is more of a feature of history than anything in scripture. It's a product of a social movement that evolved out of a response to the social problems and drunkenness that followed the technology to distill strong alcoholic beverages cheaply.

The Bible doesn't outright forbid the consumption of alcohol. It warns against abuse of it. It teaches against getting drunk. But it does not say do not drink alcohol at all, not for non-Nazarites, who couldn't eat raisins or grapes either.

We should teach people to be sober and to be responsible with alcohol, but we shouldn't add to the word of God. I think it's a bad thing when religious people look down their noses on a fellow believer who drinks a glass of beer or wine with dinner. It may be that our Lord Jesus Himself would drink a glass of wine or beer with dinner. There was wine at Passover dinners. How could we condemn someone for that?

WWJD?
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