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Generational curses, help me understand
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Post bonnie knox
Over a third of all live births in the US are to unwed mothers. It's not at all rare. It doesn't have to be a learned behaviour or a generationally passed on thing. (It pretty much will happen naturally unless society or religion pressures people into marrying first.) [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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10/12/13 4:12 pm


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Post Re: Carolyn Old Time Country Preacher
Carolyn Smith wrote:
Well, actually, it's fornication if they're not married. But the fact that it has gone down the line by generation says to me there's something going on there. So don't call it a curse...the sin by one generation is perpetuated into the next by the same poor choices.


Yes, they is something goin on. SIN! Pore choices! Bad deecisions! Bein influenced by what a little feller sees a growin up (from family, naybors, culture, media an all).

But, to call it a curse a the devil, an at after folk is saved this curse somehow has still got power/authority/force over the redeemed simply caint be supported by the good Book.
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10/12/13 8:07 pm


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Post Re: Carolyn Carolyn Smith
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Carolyn Smith wrote:
Well, actually, it's fornication if they're not married. But the fact that it has gone down the line by generation says to me there's something going on there. So don't call it a curse...the sin by one generation is perpetuated into the next by the same poor choices.


Yes, they is something goin on. SIN! Pore choices! Bad deecisions! Bein influenced by what a little feller sees a growin up (from family, naybors, culture, media an all).

But, to call it a curse a the devil, an at after folk is saved this curse somehow has still got power/authority/force over the redeemed simply caint be supported by the good Book.


Obviously, if they are having sex outside of marriage, they're not really on the "redeemed" side, huh?
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10/12/13 11:43 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
If we agree that 'generational curses' have no legitimacy for us today under the New Covenant, we are still left wondering precisely what it meant for God to visit the sins of the fathers down the generations, and how this would materially differ from the societal ills (or curses) we see in families such as child abuse, alcoholism, illegitimacy, and so forth.

What do you think it meant that God would visit the iniquity of the fathers down the generations as the Law of Moses said?
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10/13/13 12:05 am


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Post Re: Carolyn Old Time Country Preacher
Carolyn Smith wrote:
Obviously, if they are having sex outside of marriage, they're not really on the "redeemed" side, huh?


Aint referrin to them folk in your family, Carolyn, but in general. Some folk what believes in gen curses believe that even the redeemed is somehow forced by these curses to do stuff that aint right, which makes the curse (or the booger behind the curse) more pairful than the blood of Jesus. This is what the ole timer was talkin bout.
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10/13/13 12:40 am


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
What do you think it meant that God would visit the iniquity of the fathers down the generations as the Law of Moses said?


Its gotta be balanced with other Old Testament passages like:

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deuteronomy 24:16

But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the Lord commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin. 2 Kings 14:6

But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the Lord commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin. 2 Chronicles 25:4
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10/13/13 12:45 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
While I agree we must consider all the relevant passages pertaining to a particular issue in order to obtain a balanced view, pointing that rather obvious fact out really does not answer the question of what precisely the original statement meant when Moses was inspired of God to write it.

It would seem that with these other passages kept in mind, that at least the usual consequence of sin (death) is not directly involved in God's visiting of the sins of the fathers to their sons.
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10/13/13 2:08 am


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Post Carolyn Smith
Yes, OTCP, that is what I was referring to...the whole general statement. Of course nothing is more powerful than the blood of Jesus! I've never heard anyone intimate that in speaking of generational curses. But whatever...y'all are entitled to believe whatever you want to believe.

QW - I would think that scripture is referring to an instance such as Ahab, where God told him He was going to bring judgment on him because of his great wickedness. Ahab put on sackcloth and ashes and went about meekly, and God noticed it. He told Elijah to tell him because of that, He would not bring judgment during his generation upon Israel but during the time of his sons' reign. When sin reaches a certain point, judgment is required, but because Ahab repented (somewhat), God showed him mercy but promised to send judgment later. The judgment happened during his sons' reign (coming down to the next generation.) This is not a curse, but simply God's fulfilling what He promised.
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10/13/13 2:17 am


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Carolyn Smith wrote:
Yes, OTCP, that is what I was referring to...the whole general statement. Of course nothing is more powerful than the blood of Jesus! I've never heard anyone intimate that in speaking of generational curses. But whatever...y'all are entitled to believe whatever you want to believe.


Quiet a few folk what believes in gen curses have meetins to rid Christians of em, to cast the spirits/demons outta Christians, an all at nonsense.
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10/13/13 7:51 am


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Post Patrick Harris
Quote:
Generational curses is one in a long list of Charismatic TV preacher pop theologies that keep the crowds interested and the money flowing in.


This as close to a definition of generational curses as I've ever seen.

It's a cute phrase to sell books and cd's by charlatans.
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10/13/13 8:13 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:


Quiet a few folk what believes in gen curses have meetins to rid Christians of em, to cast the spirits/demons outta Christians, an all at nonsense.


Yes I'm aware of that. Not sure how that pertains to the question I'm asking regarding what the concept of visiting the sins of fathers upon their sons originally meant when God inspired Moses to mention it. Like I said earlier, I would hope we could all agree that the idea has no place under the New Covenant.
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10/13/13 8:43 am


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:


Quiet a few folk what believes in gen curses have meetins to rid Christians of em, to cast the spirits/demons outta Christians, an all at nonsense.


Yes I'm aware of that. Not sure how that pertains to the question I'm asking regarding what the concept of visiting the sins of fathers upon their sons originally meant when God inspired Moses to mention it. Like I said earlier, I would hope we could all agree that the idea has no place under the New Covenant.


Sorry, Wyatt, the ole timer was respondin to Carolyn.

Now, to Deuteronomy 5:9-10, "Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments."

Son, its right clear an all, this visitin iniquity stuff was for God haters (them that hate me), not them that loved the Lord. The repercussion a hatin God was so great that it would impact unborn generations if they continue to hate God. Hatin God equals rejectin him. Rebelious God-hatin parents often produce younguns to the third and fourth generation who also hate God (cf. Ex. 20:5; 34:6–7). Each person in each generation stood before the good Lord on their own. Nope, nothing bout no generational curses here.
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10/13/13 12:19 pm


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Post bonnie knox
Quote:
What do you think it meant that God would visit the iniquity of the fathers down the generations as the Law of Moses said?


"Visit the iniquity" is translated "punish" in some versions. In the Old Testament when God "visited" people with judgement, the kids, grandkids, etc. were affected in the judgement. An example would be the death of the firstborn in Egypt.
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10/13/13 4:21 pm


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Post Ventureforth
My view of generational curses is similar to that of Bishop Wills. Smile
I think scriptures like Exodus 34:7 speak of sins that are passed down. The children don't bear the guilt of their parents sins. But the sin(e.g the same type of sin) of the parents are likely to be replicated in the lives of their children. The children are likely to follow in their parents footsteps. And the children will be guilty of following after them and committing the same type of sin. God wants His children to know that parents have a powerful influence over the way the children live their lives. It's seen many times in Israel's history. But exceptions to this are also noted. They don't have to repeat their parent's sin.
This fits with Ezekiel 18:1-4 and Deuteronomy 24:16, etc. If I'm not mistaken, these scriptures explain the ones about punishing the children for the sins of their fathers. The children will be punished for their own sin but it will be the sin that was "modeled" and "passed down", so to speak.
With this in view, it could be called a curse because of the indelible mark left on the children by their parents.
It seems to me that it could be spiritual in nature if it is a sin that opens them up to demonic possession/oppression/influence.
By the way, I also think some preachers misinterpret these scriptures.
Anyway, this is the way I understand the above passages.
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10/13/13 9:59 pm


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Post bonnie knox
Quote:
I think scriptures like Exodus 34:7 speak of sins that are passed down.


What makes you think it means sins are "passed down"?
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10/13/13 10:19 pm


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Post Ventureforth
bonnie knox wrote:
Quote:
I think scriptures like Exodus 34:7 speak of sins that are passed down.


What makes you think it means sins are "passed down"?


You previously asked:
Quote:
Are they seriously saying God punishes a drunkard by making his son a drunkard?


That's a good question.

There are numerous scriptures already quoted that specifically say that a person will not die for their parents sins.

What would be your view of the "punishment" in Exodus 24 & Duet. 5?
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10/13/13 10:38 pm


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Post bonnie knox
An example would be Daniel or the 3 Hebrew children in exile because of the sins of their "fathers." [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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10/13/13 10:40 pm


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Post Ventureforth
bonnie knox wrote:
An example would be Daniel or the 3 Hebrew children in exile because of the sins of their "fathers."


I see the exile of these as consequences as opposed to punishment. In fact, even though they endured the consequences of Israel's sins, God showed them He was with them through miraculous circumstances.

By the way, do we really don't know much about the parents of Daniel and the 3 Hebrew children? I wouldn't imagine they sinned extraordinarily.
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10/13/13 10:56 pm


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Post bonnie knox
Leviticus 26
18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

...



32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.

33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.





2 Chronicles 36
20 And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:

21 To fulfil the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.
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10/13/13 11:08 pm


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