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Quiet Wyatt |
| If your heart is set on Louisville, I would just go ahead and start a church, maybe on the other side of town from your former church. I did not realize it until yesterday, but Louisville is a metropolitan area for sure. I would just make sure my actions would in no way hurt my former church. If I felt led, I would consider bringing my church into the CoG as an affiliate church later. As long as you aren't draining a large number from your former church and your new church were doing well in a year or two, I would be very surprised if the CoG wouldn't accept it as an affiliate church. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12802
7/10/13 9:31 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | Will my former church suffer? To be honest it doesn't even exist and what isnI don't know for sure. Within a 5 mile radius of my former church is 4 church of God churches. |
Because of the typo, I'm don't know what the second half of your sentence says.
Are you saying your former church is no longer in existence at all?
Are you saying your former church building is there, but you're not sure who occupies it? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
7/10/13 10:15 am
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| Re: ? |
David Boggs |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | Will my former church suffer? To be honest it doesn't even exist and what isnI don't know for sure. Within a 5 mile radius of my former church is 4 church of God churches. |
Because of the typo, I'm don't know what the second half of your sentence says.
Are you saying your former church is no longer in existence at all?
Are you saying your former church building is there, but you're not sure who occupies it? |
The church that I pastored is not in existence as it was... I mean that in no disrespect at all.
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David Boggs
Blog: www.abundantgrace.tv
Church: www.nvmc.tv |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 686
7/10/13 10:17 am
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bonnie knox |
I don't want to detract from a testimony of learning patience and learning to trust God, but I do have an issue with the following statement.
| Quote: | | If God wanted me in that church then it did not matter what the Overseer wanted I would be in that church. |
I believe that God allows humans to make bad choices that negatively affect others. Specifically, I believe God would allow an overseer to keep a pastor out of a church even if God's perfect desire was for the pastor to be there. To me, that's what makes discerning God's will a matter of spiritual discernment. Otherwise, you could just say, "Since that door is shut, it's not God's will for me to be there."
I think that is what the original poster is wrestling with. If one door has been shut, how actively should he pursue building another door in that same wall? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
7/10/13 10:25 am
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| Re: David |
W. Ray Williams |
| 4golf wrote: | I just read what you wrote and said from your heart! If I am wrong from what I thought your words said, I am sorry.
I have not prayed for you pastoring Lousville, because Gods Word tells me plainly that He is not the author of confusion! I know if you start a church there it will be a war and I know God is not a God of two heads, anything with two heads is a freak, which I know God is not! So that is on thing I know I don't need to pray for you about! |
But who is creating the confusion. Sure God is not the author, but that does not mean that David would be the one creating the confusion. maybe the confusion is being created by COG bureaucratic systems. maybe it is that COG has not really thought thru what to do with pastors after reconciliation because so few go through and complete the process.
COnfusion is created in many different ways and to not plant a church (if you are called to plant) becuae it might cause a bit of consternation does not mean the church planter is the cause fo the confusion.
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Pax,
Ray |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 881
7/10/13 10:36 am
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bonnie knox |
| David Boggs wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | Will my former church suffer? To be honest it doesn't even exist and what isnI don't know for sure. Within a 5 mile radius of my former church is 4 church of God churches. |
Because of the typo, I'm don't know what the second half of your sentence says.
Are you saying your former church is no longer in existence at all?
Are you saying your former church building is there, but you're not sure who occupies it? |
The church that I pastored is not in existence as it was... I mean that in no disrespect at all. |
Are you saying there is still a Church of God congregation meeting where you once pastored that is being led by a Church of God pastor? I get the implication that perhaps the congregation that used to be there has dwindled. I don't think it's disrespectful to take a candid look at things.
Some of the pastors (or former pastors) who have posted have expressed concern that a new work outside that COG that is close in physical proximity to your previous pastorate will seem to be in competition with the previous work. If there is a congregation meeting there, even if it is much smaller, that shouldn't be dismissed as "not in existence."
Have the people who are requesting you to pastor been encouraged to plug into a fellowship somewhere else in the interim? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
7/10/13 10:36 am
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| This is a very Calvinistic statement. |
W. Ray Williams |
| bonnie knox wrote: | I don't want to detract from a testimony of learning patience and learning to trust God, but I do have an issue with the following statement.
| Quote: | | If God wanted me in that church then it did not matter what the Overseer wanted I would be in that church. |
I believe that God allows humans to make bad choices that negatively affect others. Specifically, I believe God would allow an overseer to keep a pastor out of a church even if God's perfect desire was for the pastor to be there. To me, that's what makes discerning God's will a matter of spiritual discernment. Otherwise, you could just say, "Since that door is shut, it's not God's will for me to be there."
I think that is what the original poster is wrestling with. If one door has been shut, how actively should he pursue building another door in that same wall? |
I fully agree Bonnie. God's will writ large will never be thwarted..God does allow for people to make choices that are adverse to his desires.
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Pax,
Ray |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 881
7/10/13 10:37 am
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| Re: ? |
David Boggs |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | David Boggs wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | Will my former church suffer? To be honest it doesn't even exist and what isnI don't know for sure. Within a 5 mile radius of my former church is 4 church of God churches. |
Because of the typo, I'm don't know what the second half of your sentence says.
Are you saying your former church is no longer in existence at all?
Are you saying your former church building is there, but you're not sure who occupies it? |
The church that I pastored is not in existence as it was... I mean that in no disrespect at all. |
Are you saying there is still a Church of God congregation meeting where you once pastored that is being led by a Church of God pastor? I get the implication that perhaps the congregation that used to be there has dwindled. I don't think it's disrespectful to take a candid look at things.
Some of the pastors (or former pastors) who have posted have expressed concern that a new work outside that COG that is close in physical proximity to your previous pastorate will seem to be in competition with the previous work. If there is a congregation meeting there, even if it is much smaller, that shouldn't be dismissed as "not in existence."
Have the people who are requesting you to pastor been encouraged to plug into a fellowship somewhere else in the interim? |
The messages are 90% from people who are currently not attending church or still searching for a church. They are not members of Current Congregation. (The inquiries from the current church has been frankly told to keep supporting the Pastor)
I haven't fully decided if this is the route but Frankly it seems to be the direction I should go when the time comes.
The Church is discussion is a great place... Actually, my best friend goes there and many other close friends as well. I encouraged them to stay and I appreciate the work that is continuing there. However, It is not the same church.
There is over a million people in Louisville and they all don't go to church.
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David Boggs
Blog: www.abundantgrace.tv
Church: www.nvmc.tv |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 686
7/10/13 10:43 am
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Eduardo Nieves |
David,
I feel like some have mentioned. It may be good to set up an appointment with the overseer and see what options are available. I feel it's better to get an answer so you can then make your preparations accordingly. Blessings to you, Brother. Praying for you.
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Romanos 8:37
37 Sin embargo, en todo esto somos más que vencedores por medio de aquel que nos amó.
"A Church Without Walls, A Place for All People"
El Nuevo Mana
Eduardo Nieves |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3174
7/10/13 10:58 am
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David Boggs |
| Eduardo Nieves wrote: | David,
I feel like some have mentioned. It may be good to set up an appointment with the overseer and see what options are available. I feel it's better to get an answer so you can then make your preparations accordingly. Blessings to you, Brother. Praying for you. |
Maybe it was lost in the entire post.....
The overseer will not return calls or Text messages.
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David Boggs
Blog: www.abundantgrace.tv
Church: www.nvmc.tv |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 686
7/10/13 11:03 am
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| People telling you to start a church... |
Clint Wills |
Is not a good reason to start a church. When I was a young adult a youth pastor in town had a marital indiscretion. He and I knew each other fairly well growing up in local churches in a smallish community.
He said that in a matter of weeks after beginning a restoration process many people came to him and told him that if he started a church in town, they'd follow him. I got VERY frank with him and told him that would absolutely be wrong. He knew that, of course, but needed to be told by a friend.
The point is, knowing that you would have people follow you, and likely pastor a successful church, is not a good reason to start a church. Do what GOD tells you to do!! I know that you know this, but I think we can lose sight of it. Even other posters here have said
| Quote: | | If your heart is set on Louisville, I would just go ahead and start a church |
It really doesn't matter what your heart wants unless it is in complete alignment with the Spirit and God's Kingdom. I know that God has a plan for you, and I admire anyone who submits to a restoration process. I also admire your candidness through this whole thing. Just know that you're following God and not your flesh or your friends. God bless bro! |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5163
7/10/13 11:41 am
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| David |
Chris Stiles |
What is the population of the Louisville Metro area?
How many CoG are in the area?
Lastly, do you know what the average worship attendance is for those churches (including the former New Vision)?
Thanks. |
Bound By Beaulah
Posts: 1001
7/10/13 3:45 pm
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| Re: David |
David Boggs |
| Chris Stiles wrote: | What is the population of the Louisville Metro area?
How many CoG are in the area?
Lastly, do you know what the average worship attendance is for those churches (including the former New Vision)?
Thanks. |
population over 1 million (14th largest city in America)
average church size is less than 150 (Prob Closer to 100)
around 8-10 church of God's
_________________
David Boggs
Blog: www.abundantgrace.tv
Church: www.nvmc.tv |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 686
7/10/13 3:54 pm
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AnOnYmOuS4ArEaSoN |
David...don't listen to what people are telling you. Listen to what your heart is telling you. If L'ville is where your heart is, then no other place in this country will fill that void. It doesn't matter if its COG or not and if people don't want to associate with you then God will move people in who does. Your true friends will stick with you no matter what and the others can just hit the road.
Let's face it...people in L'ville need redemption if they are pulling for the Cards...  |
Friendly Face
Posts: 202
7/10/13 4:51 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| AnOnYmOuS4ArEaSoN wrote: | | ..don't listen to what people are telling you. Listen to what your heart is telling you. |
Dude, this is absolutely horrific advice.
If it was good advice - you could tell your 16 year old daughter to use the same advice..."don't listen to what people are telling you. Listen to what your heart is telling you".
Absolutely NEVER to be used in decision making.
Sorry.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16630
7/10/13 5:33 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
| You wouldn't tell a 16 year old that. You would tell a grown man, filled with the Spirit. The brain is not developed at 16. That would be a disaster. If I am to believe what the Bible says about God giving us the desires of our heart, I can tell David to follow what God has placed in his heart instead of somebody with a pen name on a discussion board. |
Acts-pert Poster
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7/10/13 5:38 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | | You wouldn't tell a 16 year old that. You would tell a grown man, filled with the Spirit. The brain is not developed at 16. That would be a disaster. If I am to believe what the Bible says about God giving us the desires of our heart, I can tell David to follow what God has placed in his heart instead of somebody with a pen name on a discussion board. |
Fair enough - but we disagree. It's the same problem I have with the TBN fund raisers - imho if the advice is no good in Africa - it is no good here.
I don't assume a grown man that thinks he is led by the spirit knows as much as he thinks he knows...me included.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16630
7/10/13 5:45 pm
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bigchurchmouse |
On another thread, someone posted that in the COG a pastor is the employee and the overseer is his boss. I honestly wonder why you would want to work for a man who does show the common courtesy of returning a phone call or text message. Is it even honest to post a voicemail message that says if you will leave your name, number and message the person will return your call if they have no intention of doing so? I am sure he is busy but no one is that busy.
I had a very strict teacher many years ago. Early in the school term a boy did not turn in his homework. When he was asked why, the kid said he did not have time to do it. The teacher asked what he was doing at 3 AM that morning. Of course the kid said he was sleeping. "Why were you sleeping when you had not done your homework" the teacher screamed? It got everybody's attention and, needless to say, everybody found time to do their homework for that class the rest of the year.
I think it is totally unacceptable for anyone in any position to not return phone call. That is good manners and common courtesy 101 in my opinion. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2857
7/10/13 5:49 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
| I assume that David has a heart for his city. I also assume that the Bible is true when it says God gives us the desires of our heart. I can't give him any advice other than that. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
7/10/13 6:02 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | | I assume that David has a heart for his city. I also assume that the Bible is true when it says God gives us the desires of our heart. I can't give him any advice other than that. |
Fine.
However, there is more to it than simple desire of the heart.
Man's desires MUST line up with God's will and His Word - or it will be nothing but heartache.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16630
7/10/13 6:03 pm
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