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Carolyn Smith |
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| bonnie knox wrote: |
This is my opinion. If a man stumbled in the past but no longer has a problem, I don't think he necessarily needs to tell his wife. Like I said, that's just my opinion, but I don't really see what good it would serve.
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But then she might ask.
The Bible says 'Confess your faults one to another and pray one for another, that ye may be healed.' For some things, a male prayer partner may be better than your wife, unless the Spirit directs otherwise.
For physical sin, though, I think the partner needs to know. If for no other reason, just practically, diseases could be an issue.
| Quote: |
I don't think the percentage of women viewing porn is as high as the percentage of men, but the percentage of women viewing it has increased. |
Probably not nearly anywhere near as high. But I'm not sure if it takes women years to get addicted to porn if they start watching it. What about addictions that appeal more to the emotions like addictions to romance novels and soaps that glorify adultery?
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6/15/13 4:43 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | But then she might ask. |
And that would be a separate question. Things that are in the past that are not currently affecting the relationship need to stay buried. Love covers a multitude of sin. Unless there's a boil that needs lancing, don't go poking at old scars to see if you can make them bleed.
I agree if there is a chance of transmitting a disease, that's a current issue that should be dealt with. |
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Posts: 14803
6/15/13 5:59 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Link wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | I don't think the percentage of women viewing porn is as high as the percentage of men, but the percentage of women viewing it has increased. |
Probably not nearly anywhere near as high. But I'm not sure if it takes women years to get addicted to porn if they start watching it. What about addictions that appeal more to the emotions like addictions to romance novels and soaps that glorify adultery? |
I'm not sure, but I think Cojak was saying it would be years into the future before porn becomes an issue with the female population. The statistics, however, indicate that porn is a problem for what I consider a significant percentage of women. |
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Posts: 14803
6/15/13 6:03 pm
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Cojak |
As I understand it, years ago when I occasionally viewed a 'skin flick', it was directed by men to appeal to men. I have know women who said those flicks back then actually turned them 'off'. They were tuned to the male ego that says: SHE CANNOT WAIT TO HAVE ME!
In this 'enlightened day' there may be porn directed by women and geared to women, thereby opening up a cash flow from a different source, the female.
So possibly I am wrong in my prediction, but I sincerely doubt it for the average woman (who ever they are).
I am speaking of a husband with a wide range of experience, being 75 and having had only one sex partner. LOL
I do know this, it requires a different set of circumstances for my girl to encourage sex, than myself. 
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jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24275
6/15/13 7:50 pm
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| raw data (L) |
bonnie knox |
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| Re: raw data (L) |
Cojak |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | http://www.internet-filter-review.toptenreviews.com/internet-pornography-statistics-pg6.html |
If those statistics are right, things are a changing FAST! 
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jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24275
6/15/13 11:23 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Pornography is idolatry. |
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Posts: 12792
6/15/13 11:38 pm
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#18 |
For a woman, pornography just looks different. Someone mentioned 'magic Mike'...female porn usually looks like 'Twilight', romance novels.
Just because you don't have to go to the adult only section to get these things doesn't make them NOT pornography. The affects are the same: dissatisfaction with your spouse, complete separation from a realistic martial relationship. Eventually, you want to know why your husband can't love you like Edward Cullen??!!
Point: females in our society are addicted to porn, it's just not your granmomma's Playgirl |
Friendly Face
Posts: 146
6/19/13 1:14 am
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I'm not really connected to pop culture. I tried to resist the urge to look up who Magic Mike or Edward Cullen are. I looked up Magic Mike, apparently a character in a movie that is a stripper. I assume Edward Cullen is the vampire with the funky hair in Twighlight, a movie I haven't seen.
There is this kid at church who looks almost exactly like the vampire from the Twilight poster, without the funky hair and make up, and a few years younger.
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6/19/13 6:06 am
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| This surprised me most: |
Mark Ledbetter |
And the survey said,
| Quote: | | Women, far more than men, are likely to act out their behaviors in real life, such as having multiple partners, casual sex or affairs. |
No stats to back it up but a conclusion based upon what?
Does this explain the presence of brothels as part of pagan practices (even though the scriptures does mention "dogs" - male prostitutes).
Spiritually, there is no difference. Yet, emotionally, psychologically, there must be a decided difference.
Could this be the fruit of the drive for equal rights? I'm not advocating the old school but just wondering about the full implication of the cultural shifts we have experienced the last 5 decades.
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6/19/13 9:23 am
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bonnie knox |
| Mark Ledbetter wrote: | And the survey said,
Quote:
Women, far more than men, are likely to act out their behaviors in real life, such as having multiple partners, casual sex or affairs. |
Mark, I looked at a few other articles before I posted a link to this survey. The articles generally had links to other sources, but also had "personal testimonies" that I thought were unnecessarily descriptive.
I took the above quote to have the implied qualifier "of those involved in porn." In other words, a greater percentage of women than men who are involved in porn act out the behaviors in real life. That is not to say that there are more women acting out porn in real life than men.
It would stand to reason that the cultural changes around us have affected sexuality, too. What I think I'm seeing is that some things we've attributed to physiological differences may also be affected by cultural conditioning. (The other thing I'm seeing is that old-school folks are in denial about this reality.)
I think a reaction against the "double standard" (in the area of sexual morality) has lowered the standard for women rather than raised the standard for men. JMO |
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Posts: 14803
6/19/13 10:08 am
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Clint Wills |
| Poimen wrote: | | I don't think under "normal" (for lack of a better term) circumstances it would be a deal breaker. However, I can envision where it could become detrimental to the relationship to the point separation was expedient. However, I would not advocate that as a cause for remarriage. The act of fornication is more than the desire of the heart, though it certainly starts there. |
Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
How do those two things mix? As someone who has looked at MORE than my fair share of porn - almost costing me my marriage at one point - I can say that I draw the line differently than you do. It is unfaithfulness and infidelity to your spouse. As a Christian man, at some level you are making a decision that those pictures are more important than your wife and family.
Now, whether or not it is a "deal breaker" is another thing altogether, but I can tell you that it shouldn't be tolerated. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5163
6/19/13 6:24 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
Clint,
So do you think your wife would have scriptural grounds for divorcing you, since you've committed adultery in your heart by looking at porn, since as you say it is unfaithfulness to your spouse?
Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 6/19/13 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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6/19/13 11:29 pm
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#18 |
| Clint Wills wrote: | | Poimen wrote: | | I don't think under "normal" (for lack of a better term) circumstances it would be a deal breaker. However, I can envision where it could become detrimental to the relationship to the point separation was expedient. However, I would not advocate that as a cause for remarriage. The act of fornication is more than the desire of the heart, though it certainly starts there. |
Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
How do those two things mix? As someone who has looked at MORE than my fair share of porn - almost costing me my marriage at one point - I can say that I draw the line differently than you do. It is unfaithfulness and infidelity to your spouse. As a Christian man, at some level you are making a decision that those pictures are more important than your wife and family.
Now, whether or not it is a "deal breaker" is another thing altogether, but I can tell you that it shouldn't be tolerated. |
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Friendly Face
Posts: 146
6/19/13 11:30 pm
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Poimen |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Clint,
So do you think your wife would have scriptural grounds for divorcing you, since you've committed adultery in your heart by looking at porn, since as you say it is unfaithfulness to your spouse? |
That was my express intent in saying that. Such (fornication in the heart, lust, pornography) is not Jesus's grounds for divorce and remarriage.
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Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
6/20/13 12:00 am
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Clint Wills |
| Poimen wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Clint,
So do you think your wife would have scriptural grounds for divorcing you, since you've committed adultery in your heart by looking at porn, since as you say it is unfaithfulness to your spouse? |
That was my express intent in saying that. Such (fornication in the heart, lust, pornography) is not Jesus's grounds for divorce and remarriage. |
How so?? If adultery is Biblical grounds for divorce, and Jesus very plainly says that lust of the heart is adultery in his heart, then couldn't an argument be made that it is Biblical grounds for divorce?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it is as "cut-and-dry" as the dude having a mistress, but I think an argument could be made. I think the man's response when confronted is a HUGE test of whether or not it is a "deal breaker". If the man is repentant and takes the steps necessary to live a pure life from that time forward, then I believe grace should move forward with him. The NASB says that God HATES divorce in Malachi 2:16, so I always believe that divorce is an absolute last resort no matter the circumstance. I know a woman who divorced her husband over porn, but her attitude was wrong. She was looking for an excuse to divorce him rather than looking for reason to stay with him. He was sorry, and even went through pretty extensive counseling both pastoral and professional. Point blank is that she wanted out of the marriage - THAT is wrong!
I also have a friend who was caught in porn and basically told his wife that he was going to do what he wanted regardless of what she wanted. This was a man claiming to be a Christian. He and I spoke on the phone and he gave me her "terms" and said, "I just can't promise to follow her rules". My view on that was two-fold: 1) they aren't her rules - they were Bible! and 2) if you can't protect your wife any better than to say "kiss off, I'm looking at other naked women", then you don't deserve her anyway.
It's all a very tough subject because men want to be "allowed" to do that PLEASE SELECT ANOTHER WORD without having to worry about the worse-case consequences. Our attitude should not be "is porn a deal breaker", but rather "I don't want to do anything to hurt my relationship with my wife." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5163
6/20/13 11:23 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
Lets boil it down even further. Say a man loves his wife, but for whatever reason, his wife is not receptive to him sexually for weeks and months at a time. Not just an occasional headache, but let's say they may be together sexually only once every few months, and even when they are, he can tell it's something his wife sees as a chore rather than a mutual pleasure.
As a result of this, the husband finds himself having sexual fantasies about his old girlfriend who was far more receptive than his wife. He tries to stay true to his wife in his heart, but finds his sexual needs often overwhelming. He never looks at porn and never actually has an affair involving actual physical sex with another woman, but his mind is almost constantly bombarded by the temptation to fantasize about what used to be and what could be if he let himself to follow through on his fantasies.
Does his wife have grounds for divorce, since he has committed adultery in his heart?
(For the sake of argument, let's leave off for now discussing the wife's guilt in not fulfilling her marital obligations and just focus on the husband's responsibility). |
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Posts: 12792
6/20/13 12:08 pm
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| Trying to clarify. |
Poimen |
Jesus does not say that adultery is grounds for divorce and remarriage. He says fornication is.
Furthermore, adultery (or fornication for that matter) in the heart may be rightly counted as adultery before God, but is not properly adultery in the flesh. Rather, properly, it is the sin of covetousness. Covetousness is NOT grounds for divorce and remarriage. Dos that excuse the sinfulness of it, NOT at all.
Further, while I agree with the sentiment or essence of Clint's last reply (good post brother), my response was to the OP. The OP specifically set this in the context of "deal breaker" scenarios. Of course, by "deal breaker" I assumed they meant valid grounds for divorce and/or remarriage.
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Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
6/20/13 4:41 pm
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If a wife says hateful words to her husband in anger, like "Raca" and "Thou fool", would he be justified in having her stoned to death for murder?
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Matthew 5
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause[b] shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
(NKJV)
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6/20/13 8:41 pm
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