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Are there apostles today???
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Post sheepdogandy
The Twelve (including Paul) were just that twelve in number.

I have yet to meet an American who could claim the title.

Unless it were Bro B. H. Clendennen.

Bro Moses Choudary would be the closest to one that I know personally.
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3/9/13 12:51 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Is see no scriptural indication that any of the gifts of the Father, Son, or the Spirit have ceased in the sense of Him somehow withdrawing them.

That said, I don't believe God is still inspiring people to write Scripture today, so to that extent I suppose all evangelicals are cessationist; no one today carries the kind of authority to write Holy Scripture (or to supercede the Holy Scriptures, as the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox do with their appeal to "Holy Tradition" as authoritative) like the early apostles and their protégés did.

I also would say I don't believe we should uncritically accept all claims to apostleship as being of God:

"I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. (Revelation 2:2 ESV)

If there were no other apostles possible after the first generation of Christianity (scholars seem to agree that the Apocalypse was written in the latter part of the first century, when John himself was the last living of the original apostles), then verses such as the above are plainly nonsensical. If no other apostles were even possible after the first generation, ALL who called themselves such could be easily dismissed as frauds simply for making the claim. No testing needed.
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3/9/13 12:54 pm


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Post Randy Johnson
There are different types of apostles according to the time they were appointed and the scope of their ministry.

Jesus is the Apostle of God. (Heb. 3:1)

The twelve Jesus appointed during His earthly ministry to be witnesses of His resurrection are The Apostles of the Lamb. (Mark 3:13-19)

Judas lost his place of leadership and was rightfully replaced by Mattathias, since Mattathias met the qualifications enumerated in Acts 1:22-23:

"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us— 22 beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

Paul should also be included in this group as "one born out of time" because of the circumstances of His calling on the Damascus road. The original twelve, including Mattathias and excluding Judas, are the apostles of the Lamb to the Jews, and Paul is an apostle of the Lamb to the Gentiles.

The third group of apostles are post-Ascension apostles. They are the apostles of Ephesians 4, ascension gifts of Christ to His Church, and are rightfully designated Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ. Barnabas and Silas, who accompanied Paul, fit into this category of apostle.

It is important to point out that not all New Testament scripture was written by an apostle. Luke was not an apostle, neither was Mark, James, or Jude.
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3/9/13 2:03 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Randy Johnson wrote:
There are different types of apostles according to the time they were appointed and the scope of their ministry.

Jesus is the Apostle of God. (Heb. 3:1)

The twelve Jesus appointed during His earthly ministry to be witnesses of His resurrection are The Apostles of the Lamb. (Mark 3:13-19)

Judas lost his place of leadership and was rightfully replaced by Mattathias, since Mattathias met the qualifications enumerated in Acts 1:22-23:

"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us— 22 beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

Paul should also be included in this group as "one born out of time" because of the circumstances of His calling on the Damascus road. The original twelve, including Mattathias and excluding Judas, are the apostles of the Lamb to the Jews, and Paul is an apostle of the Lamb to the Gentiles.

The third group of apostles are post-Ascension apostles. They are the apostles of Ephesians 4, ascension gifts of Christ to His Church, and are rightfully designated Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ. Barnabas and Silas, who accompanied Paul, fit into this category of apostle.

It is important to point out that not all New Testament scripture was written by an apostle. Luke was not an apostle, neither was Mark, James, or Jude.


Good points, Randy. I agree. I only mentioned the issue of the inspiration and authority of Scripture as it relates to the issue of NT apostolic authority in general. While not all the writers of the NT were apostles, all were at least closely related spiritually with an apostle, if himself not an apostle.
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3/9/13 3:06 pm


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Post Yes sonofasoldier
They have regular programs on TBN and Daystar. Acts-celerater
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3/9/13 4:10 pm


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Post Charismatic Entertainers Dan Eason
Diamonds have neither the sparkle nor clarity of cubic zirconia. I certainly believe that (Joel 2:28,29 Acts 2:14-39) there has been no change in the working of the Holy Spirit among mankind since the day of Pentecost. Surely, there are men and women today anointed to serve as apostles and prophets. However, those who promote themselves as Apostles and Prophets, IMHO, are by virtue of their own proclaimation, not. We have come to an era in the church where religious entertainment has become confused with ministry.

All that glisters is not gold;
Often have you heard that told:
Many a man his life hath sold
But my outside to behold:
Gilded tombs do worms enfold.
Had you been as wise as bold,
Young in limbs, in judgement old
Your answer had not been inscroll'd
Fare you well, your suit is cold.
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3/9/13 6:12 pm


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Post The COG Apostle
Yes! Acts-celerater
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3/9/13 6:16 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt...on what do you base that assertion? Aaron Scott
Quote:
That said, I don't believe God is still inspiring people to write Scripture today, so to that extent I suppose all evangelicals are cessationist; no one today carries the kind of authority to write Holy Scripture....


While I know that yours is the orthodox position, on what grounds do you base that?

At what point did God change?

Aren't we still the very same church, filled with the very same Holy Spirit?

As you know, I am NOT a cessationist on this matter. I have no reason to think that God is inspiring us any less than He inspired them. This doesn't mean we can write something contradictory and get away with it.

At the same time, IF we are still being inspired in the same way, as I believe, then we can perhaps divine just what it means for something to be "inspired." Does in mean infallibility? Inerrancy? Etc.?

Just on my hobby horse.
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3/9/13 6:25 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Aaron, as you know, we've been down that pointless argumentative road before. Please refer to all the previous arguments we've had before on that point. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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3/9/13 6:46 pm


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Post If so have other positions ceased JLarry
Eph 4:11-13 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fulness of Christ. NASB


Remember I am a simple man. I do not know Greek. But as I understand this Scripture above Jesus placed "apostles", "prophets", "evangelist", "pastors" and "teachers" in the church. Some say that that there are only four offices, that "pastor/teacher" are the same. (This is not my arguement here).

Where does Scipture suggest He removed the office of "apostles"?
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3/9/13 6:52 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
Quote:
At what point did God change?


He hasn't changed but He has a plan that is set forth. Look at all the things in the OT that are different from the NT and now. Did God change? Nope.
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3/9/13 7:35 pm


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Post Apostles HighFive
Why would anyone want to call themself an Apostle?
On what grounds would they determine this?

All I know is that every person I have seen or heard about that puts the title "Apostle" before their name looks and acts like anything but an Apostle. They are almost always ostentatious, flashy, gawdy and seeking affirmation. I will not use the term "narcissistic" because they seem to be very insecure.

Probably just me, but I have refused through the years to put "Reverend" in front of my name. Some tagged me as being Church of Christ. The only prefix I permitted was "Pastor" and felt humbled by that title.

As far as I am concerned, forget all of the titles and just tag me as being "real" or "genuine" or "honest" and I will feel honored beyond measure.
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3/9/13 8:00 pm


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Post Re: Apostles Randy Johnson
HighFive wrote:

Probably just me, but I have refused through the years to put "Reverend" in front of my name. Some tagged me as being Church of Christ. The only prefix I permitted was "Pastor" and felt humbled by that title.

As far as I am concerned, forget all of the titles and just tag me as being "real" or "genuine" or "honest" and I will feel honored beyond measure.


I'm with you, brother, I even cringe a little at the thought of considering myself a "bishop". Never used "reverend" myself either, because the only place I could find the word was in reference to God Himself.
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3/9/13 8:09 pm


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Post Randy Johnson
Of course, not only only do those who call themselves apostles exhibit all the negative traits listed in this thread, but they also hijack and pervert the meaning of the word and bring it into disrepute.
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Post JLarry
I am not interested in the flashy one who call themselves apostles only for a title. I want to hear from a real apostle.

I can think of one. David Wilkerson. Some would consider him a prophet and I will agree with that, but I see him as an apostle.

One of our very own would be T.L. Lowery.
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3/9/13 8:19 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Men and women are sent "apostled" all the time in the sense of missionaries, especially those who blaze the trail into unreached areas. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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3/9/13 9:45 pm


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Post I'm starting a message series on the 5 fold ministry... Rife Stewart
And so glad to see this topic come up.

Anyone have an good material on this. Would love to have a broader knowledge on the 5-fold ministry.

Not crazy about calling it that, but its just what I've heard them called.
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3/9/13 10:07 pm


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Post Re: I'm starting a message series on the 5 fold ministry... Randy Johnson
Rife Stewart wrote:
And so glad to see this topic come up.

Anyone have an good material on this. Would love to have a broader knowledge on the 5-fold ministry.

Not crazy about calling it that, but its just what I've heard them called.


Many believe it is four because of the difference in the construction of the sentence when it comes to pastors and teachers. The pastor is both a shepherd and teacher of the people under his care.

Prophets in the New Testament are different from prophets in the Old.

Evangelists announce the good news.

Of course, the whole idea of credentialed ministers and the "laity" is a man made invention. A person doesn't need to have credentials with an official church organization in order to be a gift of Christ to His church or to function as an apostle, prophet, evangelist or pastor-teacher. They simply need to be full of the Spirit, led by the Spirit, walking in the Spirit, and ministering according to the measure of faith God has given them.

The modern idea of these four offices (they are not even called offices in Scripture, they are simply ministry functions given to believers) somehow being a governmental hierarchy is also a man made invention and has no basis in Scripture. The five-fold or four-fold ministry do not govern the Church; the Holy Spirit governs the true Church of Jesus Christ and these ministry functions are just positions of service to the Body of Christ.
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3/9/13 10:27 pm


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Post There were at least 19 Apostle's COGLite
The word "apostle" means "to send forth".

Jesus originally picked twelve (Mat. 12:2-4).

Matthias was picked to replace Judas (Acts 1:22). #13

Paul was an Apostle (Acts 14:14) #14

Barnabas was an Apostle (Acts 14:14). #15

James the brother of Jesus was an Apostle (Galatians 1:19). #16

Andronicus and Junia were Apostles (Romans 16:7) #'s 17 & 18

Christ was considered an Apostle as well (Heb. 3:1) which makes #19
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3/10/13 7:32 am


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Post Re: Are there apostles today??? Cojak
Tom Sterbens wrote:
Regarding apostles...do you think there are such today?
Is/was it a gift or an office, or both or neither one?
Whether gift or office, has it ceased or is it still in operation?
What do you think??


In my 74+ yrs, I haven't met one.. Not saying they don't exist, but I never felt I was around one. I seem to think if you were, somehow you would know it. Seems a very important office to me. Confused Shocked
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3/10/13 12:44 pm


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