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doyle

Item 10 Voice of local minister PUSHED ASIDE?

doyle · Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 **7/17/12 12:11 am**

We spoke with a member of the COG Executive Council concerning Agenda Item 10.

Does it EMPOWER or lead toward a "Delegate System" for the COG while WEAKENING the General Assembly? How can there be assurances this is not an attempt to replace the Assembly with a far smaller body of "hand-picked" representatives? Will it serve to disenfranchise the combined voice of the local ministers?

Will approval of Item 10 be the FIRST STEP toward selecting a small group of "well connected" buddies to be official representatives for the COG instead of assuring that ALL LOCAL MINISTER AND MEMBERS who want to participate in the decision-making process at the Assembly, can do so?

Will Item 10 DILUTE the words in our "Minutes" that the General Assembly "Is the highest governing body of the Church of God."

Following is word-for-word what the Council member says. Until we get permission to use his name with this article, his name is withheld.

Executive Council Member:

ITEM 10. This is one of the greatest needs of our denomination. We need a top-down, inside-out, look at our policies/procedures. We need to look at our system in light of current conditions, future goals, and missional mandates. This cannot be done piecemeal on a two-year cycle.This will require a huge investment of time, dialogue, focus, etc.

We need a Church of God system for the 21st century (at least the next 25 years). Healthy organizations must, must reinvent continuously

I think this should be a representative body of 300 to 500 people, most of which can be elected from geographic areas with about 10% appointed by Executive Committee.

(There are people who need to be a part of this but who would more than likely never be elected...for instance people like Paul Conn, or Floyd Carey, or Jonathan Martin or Tom Sterbens or the Isaac boys (Bill's sons) -- if you get my drift). This body would have to be able to commit two or three "five day weeks" a year for two years...perhaps some in sub- groups.

Here is what I do not like about this current motion. I do not think we need to bring it back to the General Council. It is too large an issue and too complicated for a group that diverse and that large to digest in a three day period. The Council needs to provide the initiative for the Convention, provide a means for its members to be selected and let the Convention do its work. It needs to be a committee of the whole. This is my opinion."
_________________
The largest room in the world is the room for improvement.

rickfowler

Item #10 of GA agenda

Friendly Face Posts: 148 **7/17/12 8:40 am**

This is a very open ended item to say the least. The GA is being asked to authorize this convention but it isn't given any idea of what the convention will look like or when it would convene or even who would be invited to attend. I would hope that all of these things would be brought out in discussion during the GC. I will agree that I like the idea of reviewing all of our polity but I just have questions about the who, what, when and where as it relates to it. I also would be very much in favor of bringing it back to the GC & on to the GA in a future date. In fact in order for any changes to come about that would be the course they would have to take. I really like, in theory anyway, that we are courageous enough to attempt this :).

Travis Johnson

Re: Item #10 of GA agenda

Acts-dicted Posts: 7821 **7/17/12 9:04 am**

Carl Jefferson Hart

Pastor Behavior:

Hey, DOC Posts: 58 **7/17/12 10:58 am**

Travis Johnson, the real Travis Johnson said:
"Past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. If you want to know what a convention like this would look like, look at the Committee of Action."

We remember giving authority to someone to restructure the Church of God and with that, bring about a reduction of the Tithe Fund. It was never intended by the General Council (General Assembly) to take that money from World Missions but what we got, finally, was a reduction of the 2 1/2 % to World Missions in the Sum of about 8 Million dollars a year.

We also remember authorizing someone to build the Administrative Buildings (General Offices) for 10 Million Dollars and it finally cost over 20 Million Dollars.

NOW, if I have made a mistake in that last figure it is because I have never seen a full report of that project or funds . May have been a report but I never have been able to access it. In fact, if there was a report I am sure I would have seen it on Acts-celerate.

Travis Johnson

Re: Pastor Behavior:

Acts-dicted Posts: 7821 **7/17/12 12:26 pm**

Nature Boy Florida

Re: Pastor Behavior:

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **7/17/12 3:32 pm**

doyle

To Brother Hart

doyle · Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 **7/17/12 4:58 pm**

The General Assembly did authorize the borrowing of $10 million to refurbish Headquarters, however, when reports began to surface that an ADDITIONAL and unauthorized $10 million was borrowed, $20 million total, I asked a member of the Executive Committee if that was true.

I asked where did the authorization for the EXTRA $10 million come from. Was that granted by the Assembly?

His reply was that it was felt at Headquarters that since the Assembly had authorized the refurbishing, they he Assembly )would want to job to be completed and it took the additional funds to do so.

To my knowledge, there has never been a report stating what interest rate was paid, to whom it was paid and if there were COG officials on the board of the institution where said money was borrowed from. Also, no report I've seen of how much is yet owed.

If people want to know why the COG has slowed, possibly accountability to Church of God ministers and members who provide the money and gave the authorization to borrow that first $10 million, would be a good place to start.

Doyle
writedoyle@yahoo.com
_________________
The largest room in the world is the room for improvement.

Truman Smith

Truman Here

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1073 **7/17/12 5:47 pm**

I don't trust ANYONE who says "Trust me ". Now for the record You CAN trust me . God Bless T

Carl Jefferson Hart

Item #10 and the Voice of the Minister

Hey, DOC Posts: 58 **7/19/12 7:57 am**

Brother Doyle:
Someone is not listening!
Every penny, nickel, dime, quarter & dollar that is spent from State Offices,(many million's) and every penny, nickel, dime & dollar spent from Cleveland to Evangelize the World, comes from Local Laymen's pockets and from Local Church income of Tithe & Offerings, God's Financial Plan to Win Souls. The 2.2 Million the Youth/Discipleship Department spends to Evangelize hundered's of Thousands of Young People through STEP, YWEA, Winterfest, Youth Camps come from the Management of Local Pastors! The 30+ Million dollars the World Missions Department spends to Evangelize in 179 Countries of the World, Hundreds of Schools, Bible Colleges, more than 300 Missionaries, comes from Local Churches, Local Laynen, Local Pastors. I have been a part of the fund raising for World Missions.
We, the Chuirch of God, never get any money for Ministry from the March of Dimes, UNICEF, NAACP, VFW, PUSH, Social Security! It all comes from Local Church of God Pastors who love to come to the Asembly and listen and Vote. They don't want to speak, just have the opportunity to Vote.

zjudah1

Re: Pastor Behavior:

Friendly Face Posts: 202 **7/19/12 8:51 am**