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Determined to Stay in the "Red-Back" Past
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Post georgiapath
[quote="DrDuck"][quote="Clint Wills"]
DrDuck wrote:


You got the ignorant on the wrong foot. When I was 25 I probably shared your sentiment. At 71, not a chance. Too many years of accumulated experience. No longer have the time nor inclination to waste my time on shallow commotion without devotion.


Amen to that.
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5/17/12 6:18 am


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Post Re: I'll ask it here Ernie Long
InspiredHillbilly wrote:
And so I'll pose the question to you... does God bless when singing it? Not sure what you mean Are the people worshipping? No, just standing with a songbook in their hands Does it help them in their walk with God? again, not sure what you're talking about Does it encourage them? Don't know never asked them. I know for the most part it doesn't encouage me. I grew up singing from the redback and from what I experienced and saw growing up in church the redback didn't do much for those people either. If it does indeed feed them... why would you want to change them?


Are you eating the same food that you ate 20-30 yrs ago? Doesn't matter how much you love the food, after a while it loses it's kick and you eat it because it is what you have always eaten.

Figured I wouldn't get an answer to my question, just thought I would ask. Rolling Eyes

And for the record I didn't say anything about changing them.
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5/17/12 4:27 pm


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Post Re: I'll ask it here DrDuck
Ernie Long wrote:
InspiredHillbilly wrote:
And so I'll pose the question to you... does God bless when singing it? Not sure what you mean Are the people worshipping? No, just standing with a songbook in their hands Does it help them in their walk with God? again, not sure what you're talking about Does it encourage them? Don't know never asked them. I know for the most part it doesn't encouage me. I grew up singing from the redback and from what I experienced and saw growing up in church the redback didn't do much for those people either. If it does indeed feed them... why would you want to change them?


Are you eating the same food that you ate 20-30 yrs ago? Doesn't matter how much you love the food, after a while it loses it's kick and you eat it because it is what you have always eaten.

Figured I wouldn't get an answer to my question, just thought I would ask. Rolling Eyes

And for the record I didn't say anything about changing them.


favorite meal has as long as I can remember been:

Fresh peas or Green beans
Cornbread (pone)
Fried Okra
Cantaloupe
Pickled peaches
Fresh tomato
A pod of hot pepper (most any variety)
Glass of cold milk

I am past age 70 and no one has yet offered anything better; and I have sampled food in every region of Georgia and parts of a few other states.

I guess it just has to be the same with music as well. Taste has not changed just because time passes. If someone ever comes up with anything that improves upon the old maybe I would like it. Just have yet to hear it. But there really is a difference between music and noise.
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5/17/12 5:42 pm


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Post Clint Wills
DrDuck wrote:
Clint Wills wrote:
DrDuck wrote:
I was delighted when I saw that announcement on the Camp Meeting poster. My immediate response was, well, that is one night I will be there.

When the powers that be see the outcome of that service, next year maybe there will be the reverse. One night of, so called, worship music and four of the real thing.


This is an equally ignorant perspective. Anyone that says they will only be there on a night that they do things the way they perceive as "right" is wrong - whether it is for the old style or against.

Personally, I think campmeeting is the place to do this stuff. Whether we like it or not, this is not an evangelistic conference - it is for pastors to get together and hang out. Personally, I enjoy attending campmeeting because it is generally the only time I get to see some of those friends each year. I live in a region that takes 2+ days to drive across - we don't really have districts here - there is one other COG within 3 hours of us. So going to campmeeting gives us a chance to hang out. If doing hymns one night makes my elder colleagues feel good, then that's fine - as long as they understand that hymns aren't the only way to God. I enjoy hymns a lot...a whole worship service of them may be a little much for me, but I mix them in when I lead worship.

I probably wouldn't program a campmeeting this way, but I also don't think it's wrong. I think we need to spend our energy focusing on things we see as "wrong" not things that have absolutely nothing to do with life outside that night.


You got the ignorant on the wrong foot. When I was 25 I probably shared your sentiment. At 71, not a chance. Too many years of accumulated experience. No longer have the time nor inclination to waste my time on shallow commotion without devotion.


So...please correct me if I'm wrong - because I hope I am. You're assuming that anything that ISN'T in the hymnal is not REAL worship? It's just "commotion without devotion"? So, for some reason or another, God anointed people to write worship songs between the years 1700 and 1900 because that is when the majority of hymns in the hymnals were written. Before and since there has never been an anointed worship song? Sheesh...I'll guess I'll let you break that news to David.

Here again, feel free to correct me if that isn't your view. I just happen to think that is equally as ignorant as saying that nothing written before 1995 is anointed.
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5/17/12 5:50 pm


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Post Ernie Long
Clint Wills wrote:
DrDuck wrote:

You got the ignorant on the wrong foot. When I was 25 I probably shared your sentiment. At 71, not a chance. Too many years of accumulated experience. No longer have the time nor inclination to waste my time on shallow commotion without devotion.


So...please correct me if I'm wrong - because I hope I am. You're assuming that anything that ISN'T in the hymnal is not REAL worship? It's just "commotion without devotion"? So, for some reason or another, God anointed people to write worship songs between the years 1700 and 1900 because that is when the majority of hymns in the hymnals were written. Before and since there has never been an anointed worship song? Sheesh...I'll guess I'll let you break that news to David.

Here again, feel free to correct me if that isn't your view. I just happen to think that is equally as ignorant as saying that nothing written before 1995 is anointed.


Nothing against you DrDuck, but Clint, I have a church that thinks like this, I'm just glad that Abraham and Moses didn't have this type of attitude. I believe the reason people 60 and older have such a hardline stand on the redback is they simply don't want to learn anything new. When you've sang the same songs for 30+ years...who needs to look at a book. Rolling Eyes
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5/17/12 8:29 pm


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Post You made my mouth water bonnie knox
Quote:
Fresh peas or Green beans
Cornbread (pone)
Fried Okra
Cantaloupe
Pickled peaches
Fresh tomato
A pod of hot pepper (most any variety)
Glass of cold milk
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5/17/12 10:18 pm


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Post DrDuck
Clint Wills wrote:
DrDuck wrote:
Clint Wills wrote:
DrDuck wrote:
I was delighted when I saw that announcement on the Camp Meeting poster. My immediate response was, well, that is one night I will be there.

When the powers that be see the outcome of that service, next year maybe there will be the reverse. One night of, so called, worship music and four of the real thing.


This is an equally ignorant perspective. Anyone that says they will only be there on a night that they do things the way they perceive as "right" is wrong - whether it is for the old style or against.

Personally, I think campmeeting is the place to do this stuff. Whether we like it or not, this is not an evangelistic conference - it is for pastors to get together and hang out. Personally, I enjoy attending campmeeting because it is generally the only time I get to see some of those friends each year. I live in a region that takes 2+ days to drive across - we don't really have districts here - there is one other COG within 3 hours of us. So going to campmeeting gives us a chance to hang out. If doing hymns one night makes my elder colleagues feel good, then that's fine - as long as they understand that hymns aren't the only way to God. I enjoy hymns a lot...a whole worship service of them may be a little much for me, but I mix them in when I lead worship.

I probably wouldn't program a campmeeting this way, but I also don't think it's wrong. I think we need to spend our energy focusing on things we see as "wrong" not things that have absolutely nothing to do with life outside that night.


You got the ignorant on the wrong foot. When I was 25 I probably shared your sentiment. At 71, not a chance. Too many years of accumulated experience. No longer have the time nor inclination to waste my time on shallow commotion without devotion.


So...please correct me if I'm wrong - because I hope I am. You're assuming that anything that ISN'T in the hymnal is not REAL worship? It's just "commotion without devotion"? So, for some reason or another, God anointed people to write worship songs between the years 1700 and 1900 because that is when the majority of hymns in the hymnals were written. Before and since there has never been an anointed worship song? Sheesh...I'll guess I'll let you break that news to David.

Here again, feel free to correct me if that isn't your view. I just happen to think that is equally as ignorant as saying that nothing written before 1995 is anointed.


Of coarse this is not intended to be a universal statement as you seem to interpret it. I have a very broad range of taste in music. I even like the lyrics of some of the contemporary but remain very, very selective in doing so. However, I do resent going to camp meeting and coming away feeling like I have been to some kind of rock concert or mo town bash. I am tired to death of having that mess rammed down my throat seemingly with seldom a break. And after trying hard to be nice, I have decided I just won't do it any more.

Bye he way, I have no problem recognizing, by the Spirit, what I call commotion without devotion be it at church on TV or any other place. It comes naturally (or supernaturally) by the Holy Ghost. I think David would be in agreement with me.
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5/17/12 10:34 pm


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Post Re: I'll ask it here georgiapath
DrDuck wrote:
Ernie Long wrote:
InspiredHillbilly wrote:
And so I'll pose the question to you... does God bless when singing it? Not sure what you mean Are the people worshipping? No, just standing with a songbook in their hands Does it help them in their walk with God? again, not sure what you're talking about Does it encourage them? Don't know never asked them. I know for the most part it doesn't encouage me. I grew up singing from the redback and from what I experienced and saw growing up in church the redback didn't do much for those people either. If it does indeed feed them... why would you want to change them?


Are you eating the same food that you ate 20-30 yrs ago? Doesn't matter how much you love the food, after a while it loses it's kick and you eat it because it is what you have always eaten.


Figured I wouldn't get an answer to my question, just thought I would ask. Rolling Eyes

And for the record I didn't say anything about changing them.


favorite meal has as long as I can remember been:

Fresh peas or Green beans
Cornbread (pone)
Fried Okra
Cantaloupe
Pickled peaches
Fresh tomato
A pod of hot pepper (most any variety)
Glass of cold milk

I am past age 70 and no one has yet offered anything better; and I have sampled food in every region of Georgia and parts of a few other states.

I guess it just has to be the same with music as well. Taste has not changed just because time passes. If someone ever comes up with anything that improves upon the old maybe I would like it. Just have yet to hear it. But there really is a difference between music and noise.


Good post. New is not always better.
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5/18/12 7:29 am


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Post Re: I'll ask it here InspiredHillbilly
Ernie Long wrote:
InspiredHillbilly wrote:
And so I'll pose the question to you... does God bless when singing it? Not sure what you mean Are the people worshipping? No, just standing with a songbook in their hands Does it help them in their walk with God? again, not sure what you're talking about Does it encourage them? Don't know never asked them. I know for the most part it doesn't encouage me. I grew up singing from the redback and from what I experienced and saw growing up in church the redback didn't do much for those people either. If it does indeed feed them... why would you want to change them?


Are you eating the same food that you ate 20-30 yrs ago? Doesn't matter how much you love the food, after a while it loses it's kick and you eat it because it is what you have always eaten.

Figured I wouldn't get an answer to my question, just thought I would ask. Rolling Eyes

And for the record I didn't say anything about changing them.


You didn't get an answer because I don't live on here.. and only sign on from work....good grief, chill.

And yes, I am still eating the same food that I grew up on 20/30 years ago. That's part of my culture, even my heritage. For work reasons, I now have to live in a big city, life is very different than what I grew up in.... eating like I grew up eating, pintos... cornbread... fried okra.... tomato and mayonaise sandwiches.... etc... are all part of my heritage, it connects me to something that is alien to the current world I live in. It brings a sense of comfort and warmth, and even peace because it pulls me out of the current world of humus, fat free frozen yogurt, gospacho (sp?), lentil soup world I live in.
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Post you're making my mouth water too bonnie knox
Quote:
eating like I grew up eating, pintos... cornbread... fried okra.... tomato and mayonaise sandwiches.... etc...
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5/18/12 8:38 am


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Post Should I or shouldn't I bonnie knox
Quote:
Figured I wouldn't get an answer to my question, just thought I would ask.


I could engage in that dialogue, but once before, you demanded that I not respond to your threads. So forgive me, but I'm getting mixed signals.
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5/18/12 8:48 am


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Post Re: I'll ask it here InspiredHillbilly
InspiredHillbilly wrote:
Ernie Long wrote:
InspiredHillbilly wrote:
And so I'll pose the question to you... does God bless when singing it? Not sure what you mean Are the people worshipping? No, just standing with a songbook in their hands Does it help them in their walk with God? again, not sure what you're talking about Does it encourage them? Don't know never asked them. I know for the most part it doesn't encouage me. I grew up singing from the redback and from what I experienced and saw growing up in church the redback didn't do much for those people either. If it does indeed feed them... why would you want to change them?


Are you eating the same food that you ate 20-30 yrs ago? Doesn't matter how much you love the food, after a while it loses it's kick and you eat it because it is what you have always eaten.

Figured I wouldn't get an answer to my question, just thought I would ask. Rolling Eyes

And for the record I didn't say anything about changing them.


You didn't get an answer because I don't live on here.. and only sign on from work....good grief, chill.

And yes, I am still eating the same food that I grew up on 20/30 years ago. That's part of my culture, even my heritage. For work reasons, I now have to live in a big city, life is very different than what I grew up in.... eating like I grew up eating, pintos... cornbread... fried okra.... tomato and mayonaise sandwiches.... etc... are all part of my heritage, it connects me to something that is alien to the current world I live in. It brings a sense of comfort and warmth, and even peace because it pulls me out of the current world of humus, fat free frozen yogurt, gospacho (sp?), lentil soup world I live in.


And let me just add, I've served as a minister of music at a number of churches and been in the minsitry a few years. I've never, EVER pushed just one style of music in a congregation... I've always believed that balance is necessary, and the recipe of that balance is dependent upon what feeds the congregation present. There have been many times I've stepped up to lead in worship, and led music that I personally couldn't stand.... but we weren't there for a performance or entertainment.... we were there to worship, and if someone might be led into his presence and be encouraged about it... who am I to push my favorite flavors....

Balance, balance, balance.....

in regards to the red back... that is our heritage. that is where we came from... and is part of the very fiber of who we are as a movement, especially in the south. That book can be found not only in the pews of many Churches of God, but numerous other Pentecostal churches, tons of Baptist Churches, methodist, and so on. I knew the Red Back way before I ever knew the Church of God.....

That book is full of songs that were never written for any commercial value or marketing appeal. They are songs that were written by many writers who left this life in poverty... who were sharing with the world around them a musical testimony of how they have seen the faithfulnees of Jesus in their lives..... who wanted to provide a voice of unified testimony to others... who might not be able to find as eliquont of words.

The copyright date of a song does not indicate an expiration date on it's ability to minister and touch hearts....

from page 220....

The love of God, is greater far, than tongue or pen, can ever tell.
It goes beyond the highest star, it reaches to the lowest hell.
The guilty pair, bowed down with care, God gave His Son, to win.
His erring child, He reconciled, and pardoned from his sin.
Oh Love of God, how rich and pure, how measureless and strong
It shall forevermore endure, the saints and angels song.

If we with ink, the ocean filled, and were the skies of parchment made
Were every stalk on earth a quill, and every man a scribe by trade
To write the love of God above, would drain the ocean dry.
Nor could the scroll, contain the whole, though stretched from sky, to sky.
Oh Love of God, how rich and pure, how measureless and strong.
It shall forevermore endure, the saints and angels song.

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Post Random Thoughts About Music Bullseye77
I have tolerated and endured, and attempted to enjoy some of the more contemporary music that has been forced upon me by those who consider themselves progressive. Some of it has been awesome and conducive to worship, but much of it has been barely bearable. At least one night a campmeeting maybe some of us old timers will be able to sing along and engage in the worship more readily.
I have been a musician for most of my life. I have lead worship in large venues in the not too distant past. The greatest congregational response by far has been to the older style of music.
I predict that one of two things will happen on this night at campmeeting. One, it will be the greatest night of the meeting, or, two, the songs will be sung, but without the same passion and anointing and it will never happen again.
By the way, the original poster really slammed the "red back" music and got a little negative response. I should expect a tidal wave of the same because I don't enjoy much of the modern music. It's ok. I'm ready.
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Post Clint Wills
DrDuck wrote:
And after trying hard to be nice, I have decided I just won't do it any more.


This is what I take issue with. You REFUSE to be nice - which doesn't seem like a Godly approach either - but think the younger crowd is ramming something down your throat if we play the music we like.

The ironic thing is that I have a problem both ways. Anytime there is music that exalts the Lord, I can enjoy it. It may be country ( Mr. Green ), southern gospel, contemporary, or even rock style (I do think the lyrics need to be understandable for corporate worship songs). Whenever we get the idea that our way is the ONLY way and we refuse to take on a Godly approach that brings unity, then we get in trouble.
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Post Re: Random Thoughts About Music Clint Wills
Bullseye77 wrote:

two, the songs will be sung, but without the same passion and anointing and it will never


I tend to disagree with this part. I lead worship at my church...and will be helping at our campmeeting some this year. We do mostly contemporary songs. We song a lot of Hillsong, Tomlin, Redman, and even Hillsong United (they're a more youth oriented segment of Hillsong Wink ). However, we also sing "How Great Though Art" and "It Is Well" pretty regularly along with "Amazing Grace". I think it is incredibly short-sited to assume that people would sing with less passion because the songs are older - and anointing is not something that just comes and goes.

Admittedly, if they actually have to hold books, that will hinder things because you can't clap, and you can only ever raise one hand. Not to mention your attention is toward the floor. But putting hymns in Media Shout doesn't make them any less hymns, does it?
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5/18/12 2:55 pm


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Post DrDuck
Clint Wills wrote:
DrDuck wrote:
And after trying hard to be nice, I have decided I just won't do it any more.


This is what I take issue with. You REFUSE to be nice - which doesn't seem like a Godly approach either - but think the younger crowd is ramming something down your throat if we play the music we like.

The ironic thing is that I have a problem both ways. Anytime there is music that exalts the Lord, I can enjoy it. It may be country ( Mr. Green ), southern gospel, contemporary, or even rock style (I do think the lyrics need to be understandable for corporate worship songs). Whenever we get the idea that our way is the ONLY way and we refuse to take on a Godly approach that brings unity, then we get in trouble.


Brother Clint, I am not interested in getting into some kind of raging debate with you on the issue. Actually, strange as it may seem, judging from some of your statements, we may not be nearly as far apart on this as it may have appeared from previous posts.

However, regarding NICE; was Jesus ungodly when he rightly identified "whited sepulchers full of dead men's bones" for what they were? Or was he being ungodly when he in anger cast the merchants from his temple? Neither is it ungodly on my part to take issue with what the Spirit reveals to fall into the same kind of category.
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Post bonnie knox
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Admittedly, if they actually have to hold books, that will hinder things because you can't clap, and you can only ever raise one hand.


Oh my. I am so appreciative to have this opportunity to share some COG heritage (yeah, I'm saying that word). It wreaks havoc on the binding, but here's the technique: when you get to the chorus, and you know the words, stick a couple of fingers in book to hold your place and hold the book closed with your thumb and remaining fingers. Then slap the cover of the book in time with the music. You can also raise either or both hands this way. (Just stick that red-back on up in the air like you're not ashamed of it.) Of course if you've been singing a song 20 years you might know the lyrics as well as the alto notes (which is why I need a book). In that case, just throw the book on the pew behind you and express yourself unimpeded.
Of course, I never did that. I have a non-hand-raising Baptist heritage that took me a long time to overcome. Cool Plus, I have an aversion to straining book bindings, lol.
Oh, and by the way, "How Great Thou Art" is not in the redback; it is not that old. "It Is Well" is not in the redback either.
When we got a little uptown, we were convinced to get shed of the old Church Hymnal and get Hymns of the Spirit. Hymns of the Spirit does have those two (along with the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" Shocked Shocked Shocked ) and it does come in that same brownish red color, but it is not what I call THE redback.
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5/18/12 3:42 pm


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Post Clint Wills
bonnie knox wrote:
Quote:
Admittedly, if they actually have to hold books, that will hinder things because you can't clap, and you can only ever raise one hand.


Oh my. I am so appreciative to have this opportunity to share some COG heritage (yeah, I'm saying that word). It wreaks havoc on the binding, but here's the technique: when you get to the chorus, and you know the words, stick a couple of fingers in book to hold your place and hold the book closed with your thumb and remaining fingers. Then slap the cover of the book in time with the music. You can also raise either or both hands this way. (Just stick that red-back on up in the air like you're not ashamed of it.) Of course if you've been singing a song 20 years you might know the lyrics as well as the alto notes (which is why I need a book). In that case, just throw the book on the pew behind you and express yourself unimpeded.
Of course, I never did that. I have a non-hand-raising Baptist heritage that took me a long time to overcome. Cool Plus, I have an aversion to straining book bindings, lol.
Oh, and by the way, "How Great Thou Art" is not in the redback; it is not that old. "It Is Well" is not in the redback either.
When we got a little uptown, we were convinced to get shed of the old Church Hymnal and get Hymns of the Spirit. Hymns of the Spirit does have those two (along with the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" Shocked Shocked Shocked ) and it does come in that same brownish red color, but it is not what I call THE redback.


This is for the people raised singing those songs. How about for the rest of us? I don't have an issue with hymns, but is it wrong to put them on the wall??

Also, DrDuck, are you comparing new music to money changers? I don't think your issue is as much about the music as it is about the presentation that you have seen. I'd agree that corporate worship is not a concert, but saying that new music is wrong because someone sounded more like a concert to you is a pretty broad brush stroke.

One thing I think will happen at this campmeeting service is that a whole bunch of people will get goose-bumps and nostalgia and get all excited. There will hankies waving and a whole lot of shouting. None of this is wrong, of course, unless it is more about emotion than worship.
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5/18/12 4:30 pm


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Post bonnie knox
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This is for the people raised singing those songs. How about for the rest of us? I don't have an issue with hymns, but is it wrong to put them on the wall??


That was for the "rest of us," in case the "rest of us" needed to know how to do it. You seemed perplexed as how to clap or raise your hands while holding a hymnal. Silly me, I thought you really wanted to know.

No, it's not wrong to put it on the wall. It does have the disadvantage of not having the notes which are a benefit to some people like me who have a hard time following the harmony part.
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5/18/12 4:50 pm


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Post Clint Wills
bonnie knox wrote:
Quote:
This is for the people raised singing those songs. How about for the rest of us? I don't have an issue with hymns, but is it wrong to put them on the wall??


That was for the "rest of us," in case the "rest of us" needed to know how to do it. You seemed perplexed as how to clap or raise your hands while holding a hymnal. Silly me, I thought you really wanted to know.

No, it's not wrong to put it on the wall. It does have the disadvantage of not having the notes which are a benefit to some people like me who have a hard time following the harmony part.


That was for people who had portions of the song memorized - which is apparently not me if "It Is Well" and "How Great Thou Art" aren't in there. So those instructions were for people that could close the book and still sing along.

BTW, maybe sometime we'll get together and I'll help you learn to pick out alto by ear. Very Happy Very Happy
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