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Pastor's who teach the principle of the tithe
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Post Pastor's who teach the principle of the tithe Tracy S Hamilton
Jack Hayford
Robert Morris
Brady Boyd
Stovall Weems
Joel Osteen
Craig Groeschel
Andy Stanley - the blessing of being a percentage giver (tither)
Loran Livingston
Jentezen Franklin
Ed Young Sr.
Ed Young Jr.
Charles Blake
Bob Coy
Kerry Shook
Dave Stone
T.D. Jakes
Joe Champion
Creflo Dollar
Chuck Smith
Greg Surratt
Tommy Barnett
Jimmy Evans

The list could go on and on and on...... I think all of these men are pretty sound doctrinally and all teach on tithing. Surely that can't all be wrong or maybe they just haven't read Actscelerate.
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3/5/12 11:29 am


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Post Re: Pastor's who teach the principle of the tithe roughridercog
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Jack Hayford
Robert Morris
Brady Boyd
Stovall Weems
Joel Osteen
Craig Groeschel
Andy Stanley - the blessing of being a percentage giver (tither)
Loran Livingston
Jentezen Franklin
Ed Young Sr.
Ed Young Jr.
Charles Blake
Bob Coy
Kerry Shook
Dave Stone
T.D. Jakes
Joe Champion
Creflo Dollar
Chuck Smith
Greg Surratt
Tommy Barnett
Jimmy Evans

The list could go on and on and on...... I think all of these men are pretty sound doctrinally and all teach on tithing. Surely that can't all be wrong or maybe they just haven't read Actscelerate.


You forgot...
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3/5/12 11:33 am


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Post Travis Johnson
Ultimately, the new testament teaches first fruits, proportionate to what you make, cheerful, sacrificial, non-coercive giving. I see no place in the new testament where we should be relieved of radical generosity, not only to the stranger, not only to the neighbor, but also to the assembled saints.

Call it a tithe. Call it new testament giving. But, let's not use our theological differences to undermine our cooperative giving. And, let's also not use our stewardship practices to dermine the mission of the church and encourage people to give to a consumeristic, me-is tic lifestyle.
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3/5/12 11:46 am


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Post roughridercog
Travis Johnson wrote:
Ultimately, the new testament teaches first fruits, proportionate to what you make, cheerful, sacrificial, non-coercive giving. I see no place in the new testament where we should be relieved of radical generosity, not only to the stranger, not only to the neighbor, but also to the assembled saints.

Call it a tithe. Call it new testament giving. But, let's not use our theological differences to undermine our cooperative giving. And, let's also not use our stewardship practices to dermine the mission of the church and encourage people to give to a consumeristic, me-is tic lifestyle.


The world teaches "investment" which is the idea of putting money into something with an expectation of receiving a dividend. The church should be the model of "divestment" which is the idea of giving the money as a blessing with no thought of personal gain.
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Post Eddie Robbins
I was taught that if I didn't put it in the COG provided envelope and not mark it "tithe," that it wasn't my tithe. I was in danger. Maybe that is what this discussion is really about. Acts-pert Poster
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Post You could always tell the pastor's kids in school roughridercog
The teacher would ask, "What is ten percent of 562?"

The PK's would all say, "Tithes."
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Post Re: Pastor's who teach the principle of the tithe Tracy S Hamilton
NM.... not sure how that posted twice

Last edited by Tracy S Hamilton on 3/5/12 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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3/5/12 12:30 pm


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Post Tracy S Hamilton
Eddie Robbins wrote:
I was taught that if I didn't put it in the COG provided envelope and not mark it "tithe," that it wasn't my tithe. I was in danger. Maybe that is what this discussion is really about.



Same here..... one line down removed it from being a tithe.... anything paid to general funds was not a tithe.... lol
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Post Tracy S Hamilton
Travis Johnson wrote:
Ultimately, the new testament teaches first fruits, proportionate to what you make, cheerful, sacrificial, non-coercive giving. I see no place in the new testament where we should be relieved of radical generosity, not only to the stranger, not only to the neighbor, but also to the assembled saints.

Call it a tithe. Call it new testament giving. But, let's not use our theological differences to undermine our cooperative giving. And, let's also not use our stewardship practices to dermine the mission of the church and encourage people to give to a consumeristic, me-is tic lifestyle.



Absolutely correct. The NT testament of first fruits, no matter how it is said, is a tithe. Maybe it is the use of the word "tithe" that some people have problems with.

Tithes brought into the storehouse (local church) should be touching the lives of the stranger, our neighbors, and should be a benefit to the assembled saints. I believe if "tithing," NT giving, or whatever it is called is taught correctly, then there is no compulsion, it is just a matter of who do you trust with what God has given you.
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Post p5harri
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
Ultimately, the new testament teaches first fruits, proportionate to what you make, cheerful, sacrificial, non-coercive giving. I see no place in the new testament where we should be relieved of radical generosity, not only to the stranger, not only to the neighbor, but also to the assembled saints.

Call it a tithe. Call it new testament giving. But, let's not use our theological differences to undermine our cooperative giving. And, let's also not use our stewardship practices to dermine the mission of the church and encourage people to give to a consumeristic, me-is tic lifestyle.



Absolutely correct. The NT testament of first fruits, no matter how it is said, is a tithe. Maybe it is the use of the word "tithe" that some people have problems with.

Tithes brought into the storehouse (local church) should be touching the lives of the stranger, our neighbors, and should be a benefit to the assembled saints. I believe if "tithing," NT giving, or whatever it is called is taught correctly, then there is no compulsion, it is just a matter of who do you trust with what God has given you.


When you have pastor says that if he gives 10% and I give 9%, God will bless him but not me because I didn't give the 10, that's an issue.
Yes, I have heard this from a pastor.
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3/5/12 1:01 pm


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Post Tracy S Hamilton
p5harri wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
Ultimately, the new testament teaches first fruits, proportionate to what you make, cheerful, sacrificial, non-coercive giving. I see no place in the new testament where we should be relieved of radical generosity, not only to the stranger, not only to the neighbor, but also to the assembled saints.

Call it a tithe. Call it new testament giving. But, let's not use our theological differences to undermine our cooperative giving. And, let's also not use our stewardship practices to dermine the mission of the church and encourage people to give to a consumeristic, me-is tic lifestyle.



Absolutely correct. The NT testament of first fruits, no matter how it is said, is a tithe. Maybe it is the use of the word "tithe" that some people have problems with.

Tithes brought into the storehouse (local church) should be touching the lives of the stranger, our neighbors, and should be a benefit to the assembled saints. I believe if "tithing," NT giving, or whatever it is called is taught correctly, then there is no compulsion, it is just a matter of who do you trust with what God has given you.


When you have pastor says that if he gives 10% and I give 9%, God will bless him but not me because I didn't give the 10, that's an issue.
Yes, I have heard this from a pastor.


Agree.
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3/5/12 1:21 pm


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Post Troy Hamby
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
Ultimately, the new testament teaches first fruits, proportionate to what you make, cheerful, sacrificial, non-coercive giving. I see no place in the new testament where we should be relieved of radical generosity, not only to the stranger, not only to the neighbor, but also to the assembled saints.

Call it a tithe. Call it new testament giving. But, let's not use our theological differences to undermine our cooperative giving. And, let's also not use our stewardship practices to dermine the mission of the church and encourage people to give to a consumeristic, me-is tic lifestyle.




Tithes brought into the storehouse (local church) should be touching the lives of the stranger, our neighbors, and should be a benefit to the assembled saints.


Ok, so what if it's not? What if you know for a guaranteed fact that 99% of all tithes that are given to the "storehouse" is going towards salaries, mortgage and electric? What if you know definitively that little if none of the tithes actually went towards what God meant it to go to...blessing the widows, orphans, poor, hungry, etc?

Can you stop tithing to that church because it's not fulfilling it's end of the bargain?
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3/5/12 2:21 pm


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Post Tracey said.... Resident Skeptic
Quote:
Tithes brought into the storehouse (local church)


There you go again. Please show one shred of evidence that the local church is the "storehouse".
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3/5/12 2:25 pm


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Post InspiredHillbilly
Troy Hamby wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
Ultimately, the new testament teaches first fruits, proportionate to what you make, cheerful, sacrificial, non-coercive giving. I see no place in the new testament where we should be relieved of radical generosity, not only to the stranger, not only to the neighbor, but also to the assembled saints.

Call it a tithe. Call it new testament giving. But, let's not use our theological differences to undermine our cooperative giving. And, let's also not use our stewardship practices to dermine the mission of the church and encourage people to give to a consumeristic, me-is tic lifestyle.


Tithes brought into the storehouse (local church) should be touching the lives of the stranger, our neighbors, and should be a benefit to the assembled saints.


Ok, so what if it's not? What if you know for a guaranteed fact that 99% of all tithes that are given to the "storehouse" is going towards salaries, mortgage and electric? What if you know definitively that little if none of the tithes actually went towards what God meant it to go to...blessing the widows, orphans, poor, hungry, etc?

Can you stop tithing to that church because it's not fulfilling it's end of the bargain?


So the paying of full time ministerial salaries isn't touching the lives of widows, orphans, etc? That full time youth pastor that can have great youth ministries for the project kids... or the full time pastor that can visit the shut in since he doesn't have to work a secular job isn't the tithe touching them?

And the electric bill and having insurance paid for isn't assisting in the ministry of touching lives? I totally disagree if that is your statement here.
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Post p5harri
InspiredHillbilly wrote:
Troy Hamby wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
Ultimately, the new testament teaches first fruits, proportionate to what you make, cheerful, sacrificial, non-coercive giving. I see no place in the new testament where we should be relieved of radical generosity, not only to the stranger, not only to the neighbor, but also to the assembled saints.

Call it a tithe. Call it new testament giving. But, let's not use our theological differences to undermine our cooperative giving. And, let's also not use our stewardship practices to dermine the mission of the church and encourage people to give to a consumeristic, me-is tic lifestyle.


Tithes brought into the storehouse (local church) should be touching the lives of the stranger, our neighbors, and should be a benefit to the assembled saints.


Ok, so what if it's not? What if you know for a guaranteed fact that 99% of all tithes that are given to the "storehouse" is going towards salaries, mortgage and electric? What if you know definitively that little if none of the tithes actually went towards what God meant it to go to...blessing the widows, orphans, poor, hungry, etc?

Can you stop tithing to that church because it's not fulfilling it's end of the bargain?


So the paying of full time ministerial salaries isn't touching the lives of widows, orphans, etc? That full time youth pastor that can have great youth ministries for the project kids... or the full time pastor that can visit the shut in since he doesn't have to work a secular job isn't the tithe touching them?

And the electric bill and having insurance paid for isn't assisting in the ministry of touching lives? I totally disagree if that is your statement here.


For years pastors visited the sick and shut in without the benefit of it being a full time job. When I was growing up there weren't any full time salaried pastors and yet they got the job done.
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3/5/12 2:55 pm


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Post Travis Johnson
p5harri wrote:
InspiredHillbilly wrote:
Troy Hamby wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
Ultimately, the new testament teaches first fruits, proportionate to what you make, cheerful, sacrificial, non-coercive giving. I see no place in the new testament where we should be relieved of radical generosity, not only to the stranger, not only to the neighbor, but also to the assembled saints.

Call it a tithe. Call it new testament giving. But, let's not use our theological differences to undermine our cooperative giving. And, let's also not use our stewardship practices to dermine the mission of the church and encourage people to give to a consumeristic, me-is tic lifestyle.


Tithes brought into the storehouse (local church) should be touching the lives of the stranger, our neighbors, and should be a benefit to the assembled saints.


Ok, so what if it's not? What if you know for a guaranteed fact that 99% of all tithes that are given to the "storehouse" is going towards salaries, mortgage and electric? What if you know definitively that little if none of the tithes actually went towards what God meant it to go to...blessing the widows, orphans, poor, hungry, etc?

Can you stop tithing to that church because it's not fulfilling it's end of the bargain?


So the paying of full time ministerial salaries isn't touching the lives of widows, orphans, etc? That full time youth pastor that can have great youth ministries for the project kids... or the full time pastor that can visit the shut in since he doesn't have to work a secular job isn't the tithe touching them?

And the electric bill and having insurance paid for isn't assisting in the ministry of touching lives? I totally disagree if that is your statement here.


For years pastors visited the sick and shut in without the benefit of it being a full time job. When I was growing up there weren't any full time salaried pastors and yet they got the job done.


You should do that as a life plan. Your kids and wife will love you for it.
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3/5/12 3:01 pm


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Post p5harri
Travis Johnson wrote:
p5harri wrote:
InspiredHillbilly wrote:
Troy Hamby wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
Ultimately, the new testament teaches first fruits, proportionate to what you make, cheerful, sacrificial, non-coercive giving. I see no place in the new testament where we should be relieved of radical generosity, not only to the stranger, not only to the neighbor, but also to the assembled saints.

Call it a tithe. Call it new testament giving. But, let's not use our theological differences to undermine our cooperative giving. And, let's also not use our stewardship practices to dermine the mission of the church and encourage people to give to a consumeristic, me-is tic lifestyle.


Tithes brought into the storehouse (local church) should be touching the lives of the stranger, our neighbors, and should be a benefit to the assembled saints.


Ok, so what if it's not? What if you know for a guaranteed fact that 99% of all tithes that are given to the "storehouse" is going towards salaries, mortgage and electric? What if you know definitively that little if none of the tithes actually went towards what God meant it to go to...blessing the widows, orphans, poor, hungry, etc?

Can you stop tithing to that church because it's not fulfilling it's end of the bargain?


So the paying of full time ministerial salaries isn't touching the lives of widows, orphans, etc? That full time youth pastor that can have great youth ministries for the project kids... or the full time pastor that can visit the shut in since he doesn't have to work a secular job isn't the tithe touching them?

And the electric bill and having insurance paid for isn't assisting in the ministry of touching lives? I totally disagree if that is your statement here.


For years pastors visited the sick and shut in without the benefit of it being a full time job. When I was growing up there weren't any full time salaried pastors and yet they got the job done.


You should do that as a life plan. Your kids and wife will love you for it.

The point still stands. Ministry didnt stop because a pastor had to work a secular job.
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3/5/12 3:09 pm


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Post Re: Tracey said.... Tracy S Hamilton
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Quote:
Tithes brought into the storehouse (local church)


There you go again. Please show one shred of evidence that the local church is the "storehouse".


Study!! All of the men who I listed above believe the same thing.
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3/5/12 3:20 pm


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Post Re: Tracey said.... Resident Skeptic
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Quote:
Tithes brought into the storehouse (local church)


There you go again. Please show one shred of evidence that the local church is the "storehouse".


Study!! All of the men who I listed above believe the same thing.


It matters not what any of those men say. I asked YOU, brother. We can't form our doctrine around what is popular.
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3/5/12 3:23 pm


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Post Troy Hamby
I know how difficult bi-vocational ministry can be...we did it for 2 years as pastors of a house church...eventhough our people were very low maintenance, it was still very hard. So, I don't begrudge pastors receiving a salary and devoting their lives to the ministry.

What I have an issue with is calling the local church the "storehouse" and equate it to the temple in the OT and using OT scriptures to back that teaching up.

1.-Not a single scripture says the Church treasury is the storehouse to which all the tithe should be brought. Not a single reliable commentary teaches it. All serious scholars agree.

2.-It was never accepted as doctrine in any statement of faith, Baptist or otherwise.


What does the Bible actually say?

Matthew 6:3: "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing..." So, when you give, it should be done in secret and not make a show out of it. That kind of rules out the TBN share-a-thon and not letting someone serve in ministry because they aren't faithful tithers (how would you know???).

II Corinthians 9:6-7: "Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." New Testament believers should give what THEY have decided in their hearts in cooperation with the leading of the Holy Spirit. This would seem to rule out a 10% compulsory, mandatory offering.

I Corinthians 16:1-2: "Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made." Each believer should lay aside "a sum" of money. Does it prescribe a set amount? I don't see it...maybe someone can enlighten me. And who is the "sum" given to? Paul, not the local church and for what reason? To provide for the starving and poor believers in Jerusalem...a worthy reason for an offering.

This is just a small sampling of what the NT teaches on giving and I'm sure all of you are aware of this already. I have no problem in teaching Christians that they should give...in fact, I like how Travis put it. We should be giving generously, freely, joyously without compulsion or manipulation and our giving should be a blessing not only to the church but to the world. I just have a real problem with how tithing is taught in the church and how some pastors will twist and manipulate scripture to get more "giving units". Blech!
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3/5/12 3:36 pm


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